The Problem With Wrestling

[Deleted]

rockhound said:

nichotine said:

In an effort of saying anything that hasn't already been said, when Stone Cold and the Rock were on top was anyone really hampered by their reigns because they were uncertain what dues they paid pre-WWE?

It really doesn't bother me, I don't see why it should bother anyone, if you don't like them, then there's your reason for not liking them, I'd have no more appreciation for a guy like Orton than I already have now if his time before WWE was spent in a few indy feds, which I'm sure he has, I just don't know his history.

Stone Cold paid his dues, so to speak. He wrestled Chris Adams' USWA for a couple of years before he went to WCW. As for the Rock, I guess you don't remember the "Die, Rocky, Die" comments when he was given the IC title after only 2 or 3 months.

Why does one have to "toil" in the indies?

The point I'm trying to make is that "toiling" in the minors(for the lack of a better term) gives a wrestler a chance to hone their skills so they don't blow spot after spot or at least give them a chance to learn more than a few moves.

Oh, and Kenny Dykstra didn't get a real push? He was a tag champ after what, 3 weeks? I'd call that a push.

The guys in your list though don't really make any noteworthy mistakes for this to really be an issue though. Brock Lesnar seemed to work out nicely and he's probably less experienced than everyone in your list. Who are these guys gonna learn better from? Joe Schoe in an independant fed or guys like Undertaker and Shawn Michaels?

["Hollywood" Cactus Matt]

rockhound said:

Oh, and Kenny Dykstra didn't get a real push? He was a tag champ after what, 3 weeks? I'd call that a push.

First of all, I'd hardly call the Tag Team titles a "real push." (Cade & Murdoch, anyone?) Besides that, didn't the Spirit Squad win the belts in a 5-on-3 handicap match? Hardly a "clean" win, especially when you consider that Big Show & Kane were about to be split up.

Also ... was it only three weeks? I could have sworn they were around longer than that, but I could be wrong. (it's been known to happen.)

[Deleted]

cactusmatt said:

rockhound said:

Oh, and Kenny Dykstra didn't get a real push? He was a tag champ after what, 3 weeks? I'd call that a push.

First of all, I'd hardly call the Tag Team titles a "real push." (Cade & Murdoch, anyone?) Besides that, didn't the Spirit Squad win the belts in a 5-on-3 handicap match? Hardly a "clean" win, especially when you consider that Big Show & Kane were about to be split up.

I consider the Spirit Squad to have been given a relatively hefty push, even if they were on the losing end for the most part, but they were in a TOP feud involving the MCMAHONS and DX, how is that not considered a push? Someone had to get the sour end of the deal, still an important storyline. They DID main event a pay per view, which has to count for something, especially for a band of cheerleaders, no matter how good they are/were, they were still cheerleaders.

["Hollywood" Cactus Matt]

nichotine said:

cactusmatt said:

First of all, I'd hardly call the Tag Team titles a "real push." (Cade & Murdoch, anyone?) Besides that, didn't the Spirit Squad win the belts in a 5-on-3 handicap match? Hardly a "clean" win, especially when you consider that Big Show & Kane were about to be split up.

I consider the Spirit Squad to have been given a relatively hefty push, even if they were on the losing end for the most part, but they were in a TOP feud involving the MCMAHONS and DX, how is that not considered a push? Someone had to get the sour end of the deal, still an important storyline. They DID main event a pay per view, which has to count for something, especially for a band of cheerleaders, no matter how good they are/were, they were still cheerleaders.

OK, fair enough.

I guess my main issue - and this is not directed at anyone in particular - is that people piss and moan when "new, young talent" isn't pushed, and then when they are pushed, people still piss and moan. I'm also not saying I'm not guilty of this - because I probably am - I just think it's silly to say "Everyone in the main events these days is pushing 40!" and then turn around and say "But so-and-so is too young!!1!!"

So, tell me, what can they do right? Push people between the ages of 29 and 35? I'm so confused.......

[Deleted]

cactusmatt said:

nichotine said:

I consider the Spirit Squad to have been given a relatively hefty push, even if they were on the losing end for the most part, but they were in a TOP feud involving the MCMAHONS and DX, how is that not considered a push? Someone had to get the sour end of the deal, still an important storyline. They DID main event a pay per view, which has to count for something, especially for a band of cheerleaders, no matter how good they are/were, they were still cheerleaders.

OK, fair enough.

I guess my main issue - and this is not directed at anyone in particular - is that people piss and moan when "new, young talent" isn't pushed, and then when they are pushed, people still piss and moan. I'm also not saying I'm not guilty of this - because I probably am - I just think it's silly to say "Everyone in the main events these days is pushing 40!" and then turn around and say "But so-and-so is too young!!1!!"

So, tell me, what can they do right? Push people between the ages of 29 and 35? I'm so confused.......

I totally hear ya, I think there's a vicious double standard going on there. The way I see it is if they're good at what they do, it doesn't matter what they've done, I'm completely satisfied with guys like those listed in the OP's list, and my appreciation for them wouldn't change regardless of their history, what matters is what they're doing now is entertaining to my standards, at least.

Same goes for the older guys, Michaels and Taker are two of at LEAST the top ten wrestlers of all time, and at I'd say top 5 currently running, it would be stupid to discriminate guys like them because of their age.

[Rockhound]

cactusmatt said:

nichotine said:

I consider the Spirit Squad to have been given a relatively hefty push, even if they were on the losing end for the most part, but they were in a TOP feud involving the MCMAHONS and DX, how is that not considered a push? Someone had to get the sour end of the deal, still an important storyline. They DID main event a pay per view, which has to count for something, especially for a band of cheerleaders, no matter how good they are/were, they were still cheerleaders.

OK, fair enough.

I guess my main issue - and this is not directed at anyone in particular - is that people piss and moan when "new, young talent" isn't pushed, and then when they are pushed, people still piss and moan. I'm also not saying I'm not guilty of this - because I probably am - I just think it's silly to say "Everyone in the main events these days is pushing 40!" and then turn around and say "But so-and-so is too young!!1!!"

So, tell me, what can they do right? Push people between the ages of 29 and 35? I'm so confused.......

I think I mentioned this in my last post that this seems to be the future of wrestling and IMO it's inevitable downfall. Just look at the WWE right now. You'd think this should be a fan's paradise but just by reading posts here you'd know otherwise. I really don't mind pushing younger talent as long as they do have talent. Chris Masters: boring. Carlito: Boring. Shelton:Has an upside but can't cut a promo to save his life. I really believe that these newer guys should sit and watch old tapes or something to see what is the proper way to get heat or pops then, of course, to do this we must get rid of scripted promos.

[Andrew is Good]

To be fair to Kenny Dykstra, he himself is a 5 year pro, despite being only 20. He probably wasn't on the road like most wrestlers are who wrestle for 5 years, but still. That's pretty impressive. Plus for his age, he's amazing in the ring and on the mic.

Him and his pink socks.