Bret Hart Would Be A Mid-Carder in 2007

[crup]

Honestly.....he may have been the greatest wrestler of all time. If he wasn't in the main event picture then I'd really be shocked. Ya Benoit is on the midcard...but he always has been if you exclude about a 1 year span. Bret's a 5 time WWF champion....he carried the WWF on his back for years. You don't just bury a guy like that on the midcard. I mean...just look at how cool he is......eh???

[qwerty123]

“One man’s sunset is another man’s dawn”

Yeah, he had no charisma =/

One to the guy that Jim Neidhart had more charima, you're joking right?

[odor31]

He could wrestle, but that's it.

[#Classic Hi-Definition X]

He'd probably be in the same boat as Benoit, Flair, HBK, and the like.

And Bret DID have charisma. Just because he didn't have the greatest mic skills in the world doesn't mean he wasn't charismatic.

[Chris Decker-The Wild Rover]

he'd probably be in takers spot. and bret had charisma, and who ever says otherwise is just kidding themselves.

[Hensley]

I don't think you're serious...

Hart had it all, there was no perfect timing or anything. The only perfect thing was himself!

[The OP]

theboss said:

taxcollector said:

It's pretty ignorant to say Hart had "no charisma" seeing how he was mega over as both a tag team and singles wrestler throughout most of his career, in the era of cartoony wrestlers!

The charisma of the Hart Foundation came from Jim Niedhart and Jimmy Hart. Bret never had charisma. That's the main reason he had to reform with Niedhart after their initial split. People just didn't care about him.

That said, I must also add that Hart is one of the great in ring workers of our time. While he was never a great draw, he did manage to gain a respectable reputation just on ring work alone. That is very hard to do.

So? All wrestlers were selling merchandise. They were even buying simple cardboard megaphones labeled "Out Shout the Mouth of the South".

People who got into wrestling during the Attitude Era don't understand that Bret was a huge star as part of the Hart Foundation before becoming a multiple time WWF champ. I love Ric Flair too, but it's almost comical for him to suggest that he somehow drew more money during this time than Bret Hart.

He did. Hart never drew fans. The WWF's low point in the 90s was during Hart's reign. Furthermore, is it not quite a coincidence that WCW's fall from the top and the WWF's rise happened right after Hart went to WCW?

The WWF was still more popular than WCW during Hart's reign as champion. The NWO is what got WCW to temporarily beat the WWF, not Ric Flair.

How can you claim Bret Hart didn't draw fans when we recently had a thread where people anonymously ranked their favorite wrestler and Bret Hart won by a mile! Do we not count as real fans? The idea that Bret did not draw fans is simply untrue, especially if you consider Canada and Europe where Hart is a much bigger star than Flair.

[Deleted]

The whole "No charisma" argument I hear with Bret Hart is the most ridiculous thing I ever heard.

Just because someone doesn't use 50 catchphrases and say "ass" every second word, like everyone does now. Doesn't mean he had no charisma.

[Kevwhatshisname]

I can't remember Bret Hart not being over especially as an American hating heel who was still a face in Canada for it. How was Hart not charismatic? Hart might be in a upper mid card spot in this day in age but only because he isn't 6'10. Why do so many people hate Bret? I've seen it numerous times on this board since I've became a member. The fact that some of you people didn't like him doesn't mean he wasn't great.

[edgehead]

Bret Hart was a great performer. I thought his mic skills in his last few days with WWE were awesome. His rants were really good. He had the "it" factor that everyone loved. He is my favorite of all time.

[molson5]

outsider744 said:

You're probably right, but that's only because WWE doesn't seem to push the best in-ring guys anymore.

I don't recall the WWF being a wrestling-oriented company during the mid-1990s. Didn't Viscera main even Summer Slam at one point?

[HMARK Center]

odor31 said:

He could wrestle, but that's it.

You're kidding, right?

Bret is one of the best example of a "complete package" wrestler, one who could basically at least be servicable, if not be great, in just about every aspect of the game. There's a reason he had that main event spot.

To say he'd be a midcarder today is more an indictment of WWE's current booking than anything else.

[DrBackflipsHoffman]

Yea all us smarks are totally wrong and our favourite wrestler is nothing but an overrated snoozefest who didnt make TEH MONIEEEZZZ AND THESZZZ DRAWING POWER, we should just stop living the lie and all that, right?

[DukeDavis]

As numerous people have said, there's different types of charisma. The Rock and Austin and Hogan were charismatic because they had big, over-the-top personalities and were infinitely quotable because they could get you excited for anything with just a few of the catchphrases you were waiting to hear.

Then there were guys like DiBiase and Perfect and even McMahon sometimes, guys who have a character that make you hate them so much, but you still look forward to them being on the screen every week.

Then there are guys like Flair, Foley, Dusty and hell, even the Warrior, where you tuned in just because you never knew what they were going to say next. You just knew it had a good chance to be entertaining.

But there's also a kind of charisma that can't be measured in catchphrases and shouting and wit. Guys like Bret and the Junkyard Dog (who might've been second only to Hogan in drawing power in the late 80s), who don't say much and aren't playing that crazy of a character; they're not wrestling dentists or tax accountants or repo men. But you just look at them come to ring, and you say "that dude is awesome". When you're a kid, you cheer for the Hogans and the Stings and the Rocks and Austins because they've convinced you in some sort of verbal debate that they're worthy of your praise. And there's nothing wrong with that. But guys like Bret, JYD, Goldberg, Benoit, hell, even Diesel for a time, they're just guys you look at and say "I respect that man. He looks awesome, therefore he is".

I often like to compare Bret and Shawn like Bird and Magic. Magic was the better athlete, he was flashier, he was in all the commercials, he played in the bigger market, and half the country was in love with him (well, let's go with 40%, and save 10% each for Isiah and Dominique). Meanwhile, Larry Bird was just some white guy with curly hair and occasionally a crappy mustache. He wasn't a dunker, he didn't break ankles with his crossovers, he didn't have rap videos and his own brand of sneaker, he wasn't getting arrested every week, nor was he spotted at all the hot parties with a different hot blonde every weekend. Bird was just a hard-working guy who just simply got the job done every time. And really, neither was really better than the other. Magic might get the nod when looking back, just because he lasted longer and won more titles, but for a good solid 6-8 years, they were perfect equals.

In that respect, Shawn is like Magic and Bret is like Bird. Shawn charmed us all, he kept fighting back, and he always looked good doing it. Women would show up at shows just to scream at him. And he's still going strong even after getting HIV... I mean, losing his smile. Meanwhile, Bret is Larry Legend. He had a solid career that ended just a few years too soon, but that career is looked at as one of the three or four best of all time. He just went out there and got it done every night, and you had no choice but to respect him for everything he could do.

In short, there's two ways of attaining charisma; words and actions. Hogan could only do the former. Flair and Michaels could do both. But nobody did the latter better than Bret Hart.

[Dr. T is an alien]

hitmandx said:

He'd probably be in the same boat as Benoit, Flair, HBK, and the like.

And Bret DID have charisma. Just because he didn't have the greatest mic skills in the world doesn't mean he wasn't charismatic.

People often make this mistake. He was compared to Matt Hardy, another talented in-ring performer that has problems on the mic. Matt is plenty charismatic, however, because if he wasn't he wouldn't get the reactions during his matches that he does. Nobody pops big just because Sylvan got knocked down, but they do when Matt knocks him down.

[Mercyful Fate]

Bret was a bit sloppy on the mic. He sometimes chose his words poorly, or stumbled here and there.

But he ALWAYS brought the right emotion to every promo, and that's what matters. He always seemed believeable and genuine on the mic. He had the charisma to sell his promos, and the fans always bought into it. He REALLY got over as a heel.

[Deleted]

Heel Bret Hart was pretty charismatic.

Face Hart mostly was over because just about all the faces that were pushed were over at the time.

[Arturo Classico]

drtompki said:

hitmandx said:

He'd probably be in the same boat as Benoit, Flair, HBK, and the like.

And Bret DID have charisma. Just because he didn't have the greatest mic skills in the world doesn't mean he wasn't charismatic.

People often make this mistake. He was compared to Matt Hardy, another talented in-ring performer that has problems on the mic. Matt is plenty charismatic, however, because if he wasn't he wouldn't get the reactions during his matches that he does. Nobody pops big just because Sylvan got knocked down, but they do when Matt knocks him down.

To be honest I feel eventually Matt Hardy will be World Champion. I know not many people feel like this but I do. He is very good and dependable. He actually would be definite main event material if they didn't stop the V 1.0 gimmick and made him look tougher instead of an emo whimp in the Edge feud. I feel he is getting back on track and he is still very young and is very skilled and does get great pops and to be honest the faces on Smackdown go like this:

(1 Batista
(2 Undertaker (mostly part time though)
(3 Benoit
(4 Matt Hardy

Also most of the faces are in their late 30's-early 40's and if the roster stays as it is now he could be in line for a huge push, although they would turn Kennedy before that would happen, however he would still be the second face if that happens.

[Mr.K-itty]

THE HART OF WRESTLING WILL BEAT AGAIN???!!?!?!?!

AND YOU GUYS THOUGHT I WAS CRAZY

[Cranjis McBasketball]

Hart had a very Canadian way about him. A very understated demeanor, he was good, he knew it, he did it. Bret will always be one of my favorite wrestlers ever. He didn't have 1 million catchphrases, he didn't do much screaming, he had determination....he did what it took to win, even if he had to bend the rules. Hart always left you with the feeling, if I may be permitted a small pun, his heart in the ring.

To somehow equate Bret with ruining BOTH WWF and WCW is absolutely ridiculous.