HHH '07 = Bret Hart '97

[Deleted]

Not in terms of attitude, or style or anything like that. But what they mean to the WWE.

In the mid 90s WWE was bland, unispired and in a creative rut. While Bret was one of the best wrestlers in the world and insanely talented. For WWE to move on into a new direction and jump start the company, Bret had to go as he had done everything there is to do and their was no place left for him.

It's the same with WWE now. In order for the WWE to move on and new stars and creative direction to be established, HHH has to go. He's won the title a million times, feuded with everyone, wrestled in every kind of match. Everything he does now, is just a rehash (EG. DX).

Obviously, Vince isn't going to tell HHH to go to TNA and get the best deal possible. But with Hunter injured, he needs to realize for the good of the company, its time for him to retire.

[willywonka666]

For me, as far as mainstream appeal there hasn't been a really huge star since The Rock and Austin left, they were to the 90's as Hogan was to the 80's-I don't know who the next huge star is going to be, I certainly don't see it in Edge or Orton, so if Trips does leave, I don't think there's really anyone that great ready to take over-and when the E is mainstream, that's when they really try their hardest

[Deleted]

willywonka666 said:

For me, as far as mainstream appeal there hasn't been a really huge star since The Rock and Austin left, they were to the 90's as Hogan was to the 80's-I don't know who the next huge star is going to be, I certainly don't see it in Edge or Orton, so if Trips does leave, I don't think there's really anyone that great ready to take over-and when the E is mainstream, that's when they really try their hardest

Well, the Attitude era with Austin and The Rock didn't hit its stride until the end of the 90s and into the 00s. Also, the (arguable) prime of Hogan's career, Wrestlemania III, took place near the end of the 80's as well.

It kept on looking to me like they wanted John Cena to be that guy, the next icon. At first I liked him and his little rap promos (no matter how white they sounded at times), but this whole Marine thing i'm about sick of. Not to mention with the crowd reaction its obvious the next big man is not him.

Though I will say spinner belt=awesomeness.

But I agree, I dont know who on the current roster could be that huge star.

[Loki]

The biggest difference is that Triple H has been the main focus of the show every single time he has held the belt, and at times even when he wasn't champion.

Bret on the other hand was always a "safe bet" as Champion, but he was never dominant (size/gimmick played a role), nor the Chosen One. He was rather the "Most Reliable Choice while we wait for the next Hogan" guy.

And quite frankly I wasn't conviced Bret was "done" when he left in 97... Ditto for Triple H, whatever will happen to him now.

They are the guys who can keep a show on track, even without having to put out something "new" and revolutionary.
And looking at WWE's current prospects, very few could walk with their own legs without the help of the veterans...

[Doctor Tull-eus S. Venture]

I do agree with the statement that Bret had lost some of his passion for wrestling after 1997.

How he was booked in WCW, I can understand completely why he would.

I certainly don't think that HHH has lost any passion for the business, but maybe this is a sign that he needs to start more work on the "business" side of things instead of being in the ring several nights/PPV's a week.

The 2003-2004 Power trip aside, I think he could contribute a lot more entertaining and meaningful ideas to how the shows are being run.

It'd certainly be a welcome change from Donald/Rosie and K-Turd.

[krzykraka]

willywonka666 said:

For me, as far as mainstream appeal there hasn't been a really huge star since The Rock and Austin left, they were to the 90's as Hogan was to the 80's-I don't know who the next huge star is going to be, I certainly don't see it in Edge or Orton, so if Trips does leave, I don't think there's really anyone that great ready to take over-and when the E is mainstream, that's when they really try their hardest

Yeah its been a lot like the NBA after Jordon left, Rock and Austin the being the wwe Micheal Jordon. The wwe are desperately looking for the "next big star" to carry the company.
Even HHH hasnt filled the shoes imo but I do think the last thing they need is for him to retire at this point.

[HMARK Center]

I'm not sure the comparison is completely apt (as Bret never had the kind of dominant run that Hunter has had before), but I do agree that Trips needs to start moving on in order for at least the Raw brand to begin changing up a bit. They lean too much on him, and while that doesn't necessitate him retiring, they do need to think long and hard about his role on the show.

[BHB]

brentreznor said:

Not in terms of attitude, or style or anything like that. But what they mean to the WWE.

In the mid 90s WWE was bland, unispired and in a creative rut. While Bret was one of the best wrestlers in the world and insanely talented. For WWE to move on into a new direction and jump start the company, Bret had to go as he had done everything there is to do and their was no place left for him.

It's the same with WWE now. In order for the WWE to move on and new stars and creative direction to be established, HHH has to go. He's won the title a million times, feuded with everyone, wrestled in every kind of match. Everything he does now, is just a rehash (EG. DX).

Obviously, Vince isn't going to tell HHH to go to TNA and get the best deal possible. But with Hunter injured, he needs to realize for the good of the company, its time for him to retire.

I couldn't agree more.

[HMARK Center]

krzykraka said:

willywonka666 said:

For me, as far as mainstream appeal there hasn't been a really huge star since The Rock and Austin left, they were to the 90's as Hogan was to the 80's-I don't know who the next huge star is going to be, I certainly don't see it in Edge or Orton, so if Trips does leave, I don't think there's really anyone that great ready to take over-and when the E is mainstream, that's when they really try their hardest

Yeah its been a lot like the NBA after Jordon left, Rock and Austin the being the wwe Micheal Jordon. The wwe are desperately looking for the "next big star" to carry the company.
Even HHH hasnt filled the shoes imo but I do think the last thing they need is for him to retire at this point.

And there's the problem, this constant hunt for the "next big star".

You wanna know the secret? Present a balanced, well thought-out, even simplistic (only at times, not always) product, and that "big star" WILL eventually make a place for himself.

Constantly trying to shove one down people's throats, and finding one at the expense of the rest of your product? Bad move.

[ghettooverlord]

Cena could have reached that level if he had been booked properly. But he had that stretch in late 2005 that almost killed his character.

[T.J. "the Crippler" Stevens]

Triple H is a "reliable" guy, not really a "dominant" guy. It was the same with Bret. That comparison is valid. But I also agree with HMark in that the WWF just let it's next stars (Austin, Rock, etc) emerge after Bret's exit. They don't seem to be doing that now. Everything looks overly rehearsed. Everyone's being told exactly what to say and do. The whole process doesn't seem productive at all. And until they learn that, they're going to have to rely on guys like Triple H. If they rely too long, it may cause problems. That's not a knock on Triple H, it's a knock on the WWE's approach to their future.

[rrm15]

hitmanmark said:

krzykraka said:

Yeah its been a lot like the NBA after Jordon left, Rock and Austin the being the wwe Micheal Jordon. The wwe are desperately looking for the "next big star" to carry the company.
Even HHH hasnt filled the shoes imo but I do think the last thing they need is for him to retire at this point.

And there's the problem, this constant hunt for the "next big star".

You wanna know the secret? Present a balanced, well thought-out, even simplistic (only at times, not always) product, and that "big star" WILL eventually make a place for himself.

Constantly trying to shove one down people's throats, and finding one at the expense of the rest of your product? Bad move.

Absolutely. The WWE has tried this multiple times over the years with Lesnar, Batista, Cena, Orton, etc. It has yet to totally work. Cena is seen as the major guy right now, but not everyone likes him.

Another problem is that the WWE developmental system doesn't work. Period. Lets examine the list of guys that were cookie-cutter made in OVW or any of the other developmental promotions over the years: Lesnar, Orton, Cena, Kenny Dykstra, Shelton Benjamin, Charlie Haas, Rico, Batista, Heidenreich, Matt Morgan, Danny Basham, Doug Basham, Nick "Eugene" Dinsmore, Chris Masters, Johnny Jeter, Elijah Burke, Johnny Nitro, Rodney Mack, Rob Conway, Rene Dupree, Sylvan, and countless other guys.

What do all of those people that I just listed have in common? Every last one of them, somehow or some way, has failed to get over or when put in a top-spot, something went wrong. The guys that have actually made a connection with the fans? Carlito, Kennedy, and CM Punk are three of the guys that actually got over on their own. And WWE ruined it by messing with their characters eventually or SOMETHING. What do THOSE 3 have in common? They didn't come up through OVW or any WWE feeder systems. Sure, they were IN OVW, but they got noticed before that.

WWE needs to stop this reliance on their developmental systems, because for the most part, OVW is a good place to get life-long mid-carders. They need to expand their horizons, look in the indy's, Mexico, Japan, Puerto Rico, MMA, anywhere and everywhere. Does the NFL get all their top players from the same place. Does the NBA? No, and neither should the WWE.

[Bub (BLM)]

hitmanmark said:

krzykraka said:

Yeah its been a lot like the NBA after Jordon left, Rock and Austin the being the wwe Micheal Jordon. The wwe are desperately looking for the "next big star" to carry the company.
Even HHH hasnt filled the shoes imo but I do think the last thing they need is for him to retire at this point.

And there's the problem, this constant hunt for the "next big star".

You wanna know the secret? Present a balanced, well thought-out, even simplistic (only at times, not always) product, and that "big star" WILL eventually make a place for himself.

Constantly trying to shove one down people's throats, and finding one at the expense of the rest of your product? Bad move.

Totally agree. Last wrestler I remember doing this was Cena. But then they jumped the gun with him and ruined him.

[krazysane]

Ill name a few who could be huge an be the next rock an austin in terms of being pop, jeff hardy, keneddy, and the great khail!!!