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Post by Error on Aug 1, 2007 14:39:53 GMT -5
Now I didn't really see Raw (caught a few minutes while channel surfing), but I'm curious: were the matches really that good, or is the main reason people are saying "it was a much better show" that Cena/Lashley lost? Gotta do more than that to show an actual upswing in quality, I'd think. Some were good (Lashley/Kennedy, Carlito/Cena, Rhodes/Daiviri) while some were just horrible (Booker/King, Cryme Tyme/Jobbers). Overall, I thought it was real entertaining minus the 15 minute Cryme Tyme selling shoes bit.
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Post by The Line on Aug 1, 2007 14:39:54 GMT -5
That's WAY too big a ratings drop to pin on any one thing. Normally, I would say that Neilson ratings aren't really that important (it's an outdated system that doesn't take into account households with more than one TV, I think), but a -1.0 drop? That's too big not to notice. I can't think of anything big that was on TV on Monday night, so WWE's got nobody to blame but themselves, it would seem. But somebody's gotta show the actual hourly/half-hourly breakdowns of the ratings. If Raw started with, say, a 3.3, then fell to a 2.1 by the end, that's even more devastating, since it would show that they are losing their audience. If it stayed low the whole time, then it might be a reaction to last weeks show, or who knows what else (since we're not about to figure it out any time soon). Now I didn't really see Raw (caught a few minutes while channel surfing), but I'm curious: were the matches really that good, or is the main reason people are saying "it was a much better show" that Cena/Lashley lost? Gotta do more than that to show an actual upswing in quality, I'd think. It was the first RAW I watched in its entirety(well, I missed the ending, but not because of the show, but because I had to be somewhere at 8) since Pre-WM times, so I thought it was pretty decent.
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Post by Sir Bill of Chainsawberg on Aug 1, 2007 14:40:00 GMT -5
My $0.02.
Honestly, I believe that Benoit and the potential hearings have a lot to do with this whole fiasco. Granted, not everything, but certainly a large chunk.
Is Cena causing this? Perhaps in the minds of the IWC. Athough people love to discredit Cena, he's the most over mothersmurfer in the entire promotion right now. His merchandise sales are through the roof. He has legions of annoying fanboys and 15-year-old girls on his bandwagon. Cena isn't over in the IWC, but he's god outside of our bubble.
It is a huge problem, however, that Cena's the only over guy in the promotion right now, and that perhaps is the 'E's fault. And because of that, the 'E is put into a position where they must play conservatively. Thing is, if you wanted to create another superstar, would you want to take a risk by putting him over your only real cash cow?
The product has been downright horrid for some time, but the fans put up with it. But it was the Benoit tragedy that was the straw that broke the back of the camel. Suddenly, it became really, REALLY not cool to be a wrestling fan. More so than at any other time in the history of the industry, IMO. Potential fans finally are fed up with wrestling as a whole.
Yes, I'm playing the "Media is Satan to the wrestling world." card. But this time it's multiplied by a hundred.
Put yourselves into the shoes of the average, casual, non-IWC affiliated mark. Honest to god, with pretty much all media constantly ridiculing the professional wrestling industry (again, much more so than normal), would you dare tell anybody you're a wrestling fan? Would you dare watch wrestling in front of a group of people? No, it's peer pressure. It's not cool anymore.
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The OP
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Post by The OP on Aug 1, 2007 14:41:43 GMT -5
Now I didn't really see Raw (caught a few minutes while channel surfing), but I'm curious: were the matches really that good, or is the main reason people are saying "it was a much better show" that Cena/Lashley lost? Gotta do more than that to show an actual upswing in quality, I'd think. Some were good (Lashley/Kennedy, Carlito/Cena, Rhodes/Daiviri) while some were just horrible (Booker/King, Cryme Tyme/Jobbers). Overall, I thought it was real entertaining minus the 15 minute Cryme Tyme selling shoes bit. That's pretty much my assesment too.
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Post by Zutroy on Aug 1, 2007 14:43:40 GMT -5
That's WAY too big a ratings drop to pin on any one thing. Normally, I would say that Neilson ratings aren't really that important (it's an outdated system that doesn't take into account households with more than one TV, I think), but a -1.0 drop? That's too big not to notice. I can't think of anything big that was on TV on Monday night, so WWE's got nobody to blame but themselves, it would seem. But somebody's gotta show the actual hourly/half-hourly breakdowns of the ratings. If Raw started with, say, a 3.3, then fell to a 2.1 by the end, that's even more devastating, since it would show that they are losing their audience. If it stayed low the whole time, then it might be a reaction to last weeks show, or who knows what else (since we're not about to figure it out any time soon). Now I didn't really see Raw (caught a few minutes while channel surfing), but I'm curious: were the matches really that good, or is the main reason people are saying "it was a much better show" that Cena/Lashley lost? Gotta do more than that to show an actual upswing in quality, I'd think. The matches were short and pointless i reckon.
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Post by The Line on Aug 1, 2007 14:44:01 GMT -5
but if it is the Benoit thing, ratings would either be going down gradually since June 25th, or the big drop would have happened sooner afterwords.
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The OP
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Post by The OP on Aug 1, 2007 14:46:21 GMT -5
Haven't they been going down gradually though?
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Post by Error on Aug 1, 2007 14:46:41 GMT -5
I am not a Cena hater by any means but, I have to ask: For everyone saying Cena isn't the problem or talking about how over he is so he shouldn't shoulder the blame, why not? If he really was that popular then why not place some blame on him (granted some have answered but, let me finish)? When Michaels and Diesel were champ ('95-'96ish) and ratings drop people placed most of the blame on them saying they couldn't draw, why can't the same be said for Cena since the ratings have dropped under him as well?
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Jiren
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Post by Jiren on Aug 1, 2007 14:48:05 GMT -5
Remember when Edge was champ
Didn't the Ratings rise, but they went back to Cena as champ.
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Post by Confused Mark Wahlberg on Aug 1, 2007 14:49:16 GMT -5
I don't think the injuries to top guys can be ignored either.
But the shows themselves completely lack the 'must see' quality of years past.
In the old days, I wouldn't miss Raw for anything. Now, I tiVo it and watch it sometimes days later.
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Post by The Line on Aug 1, 2007 14:49:25 GMT -5
Haven't they been going down gradually though? quoted from someone else in the thread. Whoever it was, credit goes to you. The Benoit murder happened on June 25. The Raw ratings from June 25 to July 23 were: 3.8, 3.7, 3.4, 3.4, 3.4.
The four weeks prior to the Benoit tragedy had ratings of: 3.7, 3.2, 3.8, 3.8.so yeah, a small dip. But they had leveled off for 3 weeks straight.
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 1, 2007 14:49:45 GMT -5
Haven't they been going down gradually though? Nope. Somebody posted them a few pages back, and the ratings, from before the Benoit incident and in the weeks after, have mostly held, although there have been weeks where they dropped maybe .1 or .2. Nothing to indicate a full point drop, though.
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The OP
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Post by The OP on Aug 1, 2007 14:50:24 GMT -5
I am not a Cena hater by any means but, I have to ask: For everyone saying Cena isn't the problem or talking about how over he is so he shouldn't shoulder the blame, why not? If he really was that popular then why not place some blame on him (granted some have answered but, let me finish)? When Michaels and Diesel were champ ('95-'96ish) and ratings drop people placed most of the blame on them saying they couldn't draw, why can't the same be said for Cena since the ratings have dropped under him as well? ![](http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/650/mattstriker5yb4.jpg) "Good question Mr. Squizz. Can anyone answer?"
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The OP
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Post by The OP on Aug 1, 2007 14:51:27 GMT -5
Haven't they been going down gradually though? Nope. Somebody posted them a few pages back, and the ratings, from before the Benoit incident and in the weeks after, have mostly held, although there have been weeks where they dropped maybe .1 or .2. Nothing to indicate a full point drop, though. There was no source for that or anything though. I'm not calling him a liar, but I don't think we should just accept those numbers either.
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Post by Sir Bill of Chainsawberg on Aug 1, 2007 14:54:25 GMT -5
but if it is the Benoit thing, ratings would either be going down gradually since June 25th, or the big drop would have happened sooner afterwords. It wouldn't happen soon afterwards because people didn't know the details of the situation yet. Remember the whole Salute to Benoit in place of the Salute to McMahon? At the time, they were saluting the great wrestler that everybody loved. Things, of course, are different now. Somebody noted that perhaps the fanbase following the tragedy was curious. I agree with that. Perhaps people were curious to see what direction the company was going to go next following the situation. Let me tell you, one of the first Raw's I've watched all year was the Raw one week after the tragedy (I'm usually not home for Raw). I actually blocked time out of my schedule so I could watch that one episode. I watched regularly up until this week (had to work).
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Post by The Line on Aug 1, 2007 14:55:59 GMT -5
but if it is the Benoit thing, ratings would either be going down gradually since June 25th, or the big drop would have happened sooner afterwords. It wouldn't happen soon afterwards because people didn't know the details of the situation yet. Remember the whole Salute to Benoit in place of the Salute to McMahon? At the time, they were saluting the great wrestler that everybody loved. Things, of course, are different now. Somebody noted that perhaps the fanbase following the tragedy was curious. I agree with that. Perhaps people were curious to see what direction the company was going to go next following the situation. Let me tell you, one of the first Raw's I've watched all year was the Raw one week after the tragedy (I'm usually not home for Raw). I actually blocked time out of my schedule so I could watch that one episode. I watched regularly up until this week (had to work). Yeah, but there haven't really been any new details for 2 weeks now, so why didn't the drop happen then?
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Post by Girth Brooks on Aug 1, 2007 14:56:15 GMT -5
I thought Cena was a draw
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Post by HMARK Center on Aug 1, 2007 14:56:35 GMT -5
Nope. Somebody posted them a few pages back, and the ratings, from before the Benoit incident and in the weeks after, have mostly held, although there have been weeks where they dropped maybe .1 or .2. Nothing to indicate a full point drop, though. There was no source for that or anything though. I'm not calling him a liar, but I don't think we should just accept those numbers either. True, but I remember reading some of those numbers in past weeks when somebody would post them from the Observer or the Torch or something. Regardless, I can't remember seeing a sub 3.00 rating for Raw in, well, almost ever.
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Post by The Line on Aug 1, 2007 14:57:38 GMT -5
There was no source for that or anything though. I'm not calling him a liar, but I don't think we should just accept those numbers either. True, but I remember reading some of those numbers in past weeks when somebody would post them from the Observer or the Torch or something. Regardless, I can't remember seeing a sub 3.00 rating for Raw in, well, almost ever. saame here. Even in 2002 when it was getting bad, they could still pull a 3.1
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Post by audace12 on Aug 1, 2007 14:59:58 GMT -5
Something's wrong in the booking,so the ratings are dropping like flies
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