|
Post by molson5 on Aug 27, 2007 14:30:41 GMT -5
No, he won most of his world titles because the NWA felt that they could make the most money having faces chase him - Because he was charismatic and compelling in every way - from how he talked to what he did in the ring. If Flair was in his prime now, he'd be hugely over, but he'd have new challenges he never had to deal with in the 80s - overexposure, cynical fans, lack of leverage with other territories, bookers and promoters who didn't feel like they needed to kiss his ass and do what he said. Ok. I'll give you that. But, Flair didnt need overexposure. I meant it would have been a challenge for his character. Main event wrestlers didn't have to wrestle on TV every week back then, which helped aura and "specialness" of when they did wrestle. Flair would have been a legend in any era. But the modern era is by far the most difficult for wrestlers to reach that level.
|
|
|
Post by Randy Orton's Bitch on Aug 27, 2007 14:48:39 GMT -5
Ok. I'll give you that. But, Flair didnt need overexposure. I meant it would have been a challenge for his character. Main event wrestlers didn't have to wrestle on TV every week back then, which helped aura and "specialness" of when they did wrestle. Flair would have been a legend in any era. But the modern era is by far the most difficult for wrestlers to reach that level. All you need is an over gimmick nowadays. Do you really think Cena would have been champion in the 80's? Or even 90's? Hell No. He would get laughed outta the building for acting like a wigger. He would definetely be a wrestlecrap introduction.Probably PN Newz ptII
|
|
|
Post by Threadkiller [Classic] on Aug 27, 2007 16:00:01 GMT -5
for 4 years, he countered the evil with his prayers, training and Vitamins (Much like Cena does with his Hustle, loyalty and Respect) not to mention those 24 inch pythons (which likely were more a result of the "vitamins" than the prayers). Okay, I laughed. But you made a great comparison between Hogan's training, prayers, and vitamins and Cena's Hustle, Loyalty, Respect. Although I'm still big on Angle's Three I's.
|
|
oltrelamorte
Don Corleone
Comin' for you, Big Boss Man!
Posts: 1,375
|
Post by oltrelamorte on Aug 27, 2007 16:06:41 GMT -5
Flair is talented. Cena is not. Agreed 100%.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Aug 27, 2007 16:16:16 GMT -5
A lot of it, in my eyes, is the fact that there aren't many credible challengers for Cena left.
Look back at the 80's NWA, though, and you've got Flair, Race, Rhodes, Steamboat, Koloff, Magnum, and later on Sting, Muta, and others...all guys who could just about always been looked on as credible challengers.
|
|
|
Post by molson5 on Aug 27, 2007 16:23:22 GMT -5
All you need is an over gimmick nowadays. Do you really think Cena would have been champion in the 80's? Or even 90's? Hell No. He would get laughed outta the building for acting like a wigger. He would definetely be a wrestlecrap introduction.Probably PN Newz ptII Cena hasn't been the rapper character for like 3 years now, at least. In any event, if he had debuted in 1985, presumably, he would have had a different gimmick. But he has what would work in any era - charisma, star power, looks, at least average wrestling skill and the ability to deliver in a big match. And Cena's not talented? You have to be kidding.
|
|
Mr. Mediocre
Hank Scorpio
Bert Early?... sorry, that's a typo. Butt. Ugly.
Much better since I was last here.
Posts: 6,249
|
Post by Mr. Mediocre on Aug 27, 2007 16:30:38 GMT -5
A lot of it, in my eyes, is the fact that there aren't many credible challengers for Cena left. Look back at the 80's NWA, though, and you've got Flair, Race, Rhodes, Steamboat, Koloff, Magnum, and later on Sting, Muta, and others...all guys who could just about always been looked on as credible challengers. Very, very true. I've always believed that a champion was only as good as his competition, just as a superhero's only as good as the villains he faces.
|
|
|
Post by molson5 on Aug 27, 2007 16:43:04 GMT -5
I agree that the number of challengers for Cena on Raw is a concern (and this is why we see so many main event rematches at PPVs, to try to get as much mileage out of these challengers as possible).
The one interesting exception to that rule was Hogan. Hogan had a 4 year reign without really any legitimate challengers. He'd run the house show circuit, defend the title against somebody for a few months, and move on to some other heel from the midcard.
|
|
|
Post by gmanquik on Aug 27, 2007 16:57:58 GMT -5
This is kind-of a fallacy here. Flair and Cena are two totally different kinds of stars, and these points have been covered fairly...for Flair. Cena is a star in his own right. He has the look, he has the fans that spend the money to see him and buy his merchandise, and he's even got a hell of an attitude towards wrestling, even with how fans treat him. The Cena hate is a good thing for wrestling, in that it gets the audience buzzing, whether it's good or bad, which is a hell of a lot better than the Conway Pop that most people get nowadays. Cena has more talent than a lot of people give him credit for; if Cena wasn't ready, he'd already be running home to mommy after the fans called him a doo-doo head. Like him or hate him, Flair is a legend. Like him or hate him, Cena will be a legend. If you disagree with me, that is your right; in fact, this is what makes us fans of wrestling and what it is today, and is one of the many things that keeps us together here. Without Flair, where the hell would wrestling be today? How about Cena? Where the hell would wrestling be without him? At the end of the day, and I will quote this from a somewhat familiar writing...these truths will be self-evident. Perhaps this would be a good 'Rewriting the Book' for Jed to cover: "What if Cena never became anything in the WWE?"
|
|
|
Post by chunkylover53 on Sept 7, 2007 17:55:52 GMT -5
Sure, its easy to praise over Flair because he's a legend and it was back in the "good old days". But I promise you, if there was the internet and more smarks, you guys would be complaining that he's hogging the spotlight much like Cena is today. Times have changed.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on Sept 7, 2007 17:58:19 GMT -5
Flair's was awesome. Cena's, while tolerable, not so much.
|
|
|
Post by bella on Sept 7, 2007 18:03:59 GMT -5
Flair is talented. Cena is not. That sums it up very nicely.
|
|
|
Post by Fruity Delicious Skittles on Sept 7, 2007 18:11:21 GMT -5
Flair is talented. Cena is not. That sums it up very nicely. Not particularly. If Cena wasn't talented he wouldn't be where he is. It's very simple. People love Flair. People hate Cena. You tell me. Hmm. Cena is loved by a lot of women and kids. A demographic that makes up a big part of WWE's viewership, so yeah.
|
|
|
Post by bella on Sept 7, 2007 18:34:35 GMT -5
Well, wrestling is bigger today than when Flair was in his prime. He's the first wrestler I remember seeing on television that caught my attention (I'm in my late 20s.) It wasn't until after Hulk Hogan became a "movie star" (lol), and wrestling catered to kids by selling merch at the local K-Mart, that the "sport" became more mainstream.
So, in one sense, comparing Flair and Cena is like comparing apples and oranges. When I was a kid, we watched the matches and that was the end of it until the next match. lol With the internet and cable, wrestling is now a 24/7 multi-million dollar business.
In reality, Flair would have been raked over the internet coals worse than Cena has been because Flair was a dirty player. lol However, Flair's still my all-time fav wrestler, though. I also think Flair is a better technical wrestler than John Cena. Cena has a certain charm, no doubt, but Flair wins in that category, too. The robes and the "woo!" beat the ever-changing gimmicks of John Cena.
|
|
|
Post by royboy8 on Sept 7, 2007 19:04:23 GMT -5
This is kind-of a fallacy here. Flair and Cena are two totally different kinds of stars, and these points have been covered fairly...for Flair. Cena is a star in his own right. He has the look, he has the fans that spend the money to see him and buy his merchandise, and he's even got a hell of an attitude towards wrestling, even with how fans treat him. The Cena hate is a good thing for wrestling, in that it gets the audience buzzing, whether it's good or bad, which is a hell of a lot better than the Conway Pop that most people get nowadays. Cena has more talent than a lot of people give him credit for; if Cena wasn't ready, he'd already be running home to mommy after the fans called him a doo-doo head. Like him or hate him, Flair is a legend. Like him or hate him, Cena will be a legend. If you disagree with me, that is your right; in fact, this is what makes us fans of wrestling and what it is today, and is one of the many things that keeps us together here. Without Flair, where the hell would wrestling be today? How about Cena? Where the hell would wrestling be without him? At the end of the day, and I will quote this from a somewhat familiar writing...these truths will be self-evident. Perhaps this would be a good 'Rewriting the Book' for Jed to cover: "What if Cena never became anything in the WWE?" I totally agree. This is an excellent post that makes a great point. That being said, members of this board will shoot it down because it actually gives Cena the credit he deserves.
|
|
|
Post by Josh DELUXE on Sept 7, 2007 21:58:58 GMT -5
OMG GUYS CENA HAS 3MOVES!! HE SUKKS!
Seriously Cena's run as champion has been GREAT. He's put on EXCELLENT matches with Edge, Michales, Umaga, Orton and he carried The Great Khali to the best matches in his career. He doesn't need a billion moves to put on a good match. it's not how many moves you use, it's when and why you use certain moves. Cena is GREAT at that.
Keep in mind that during Flair's run, he mainly defended the title in house shows meaning he wasn't constantly exposed to the same audience week in and week out. Wrestlers have accused him of having the same match over and over and Flair could get away with that because it wasn't always the same people watching his matches.
Flair is one of the all time greats no doubt, but some people can't accept the fact that Cena is one of the top 5 wrestlers in the world right now.
|
|
|
Post by A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto) on Sept 7, 2007 22:04:38 GMT -5
Flair is talented. Cena is not. Exactly!
|
|
|
Post by A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto) on Sept 7, 2007 22:07:51 GMT -5
"Cena is one of the top 5 wrestlers in the world right now."
There is something seriously wrong with that statement.
|
|
|
Post by Josh DELUXE on Sept 7, 2007 22:09:00 GMT -5
"Cena is one of the top 5 wrestlers in the world right now." There is something seriously wrong with that statement. No there isn't. He's been arguably the most consistant guy as far as putting on good matches go.
|
|
|
Post by A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto) on Sept 7, 2007 22:20:30 GMT -5
"Cena is one of the top 5 wrestlers in the world right now." There is something seriously wrong with that statement. No there isn't. He's been arguably the most consistent guy as far as putting on good matches go. I disagree. Calling him one of the best WRESTLERS currently in the world, when his offense basically consists of punches, shoulder tackles and five knuckle shuffles, seems a bit of an oxymoron to me. I'm not sure what exactly qualifies as a good match from Cena personally, (since they all usually are the same way) but I can name about a dozen people who were far better at putting on consistent good matches than him. Morrison, Punk, HBK, Angle, Joe, Burke, MVP, and even Flair himself have put on great performances since Cena has been the top guy in the company.
|
|