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Post by Jimichiro Likes Erick Rowan on Sept 7, 2007 22:30:43 GMT -5
OMG GUYS CENA HAS 3MOVES!! HE SUKKS! Seriously Cena's run as champion has been GREAT. He's put on EXCELLENT matches with Edge, Michales, Umaga, Orton and he carried The Great Khali to the best matches in his career. He doesn't need a billion moves to put on a good match. it's not how many moves you use, it's when and why you use certain moves. Cena is GREAT at that. Keep in mind that during Flair's run, he mainly defended the title in house shows meaning he wasn't constantly exposed to the same audience week in and week out. Wrestlers have accused him of having the same match over and over and Flair could get away with that because it wasn't always the same people watching his matches. Flair is one of the all time greats no doubt, but some people can't accept the fact that Cena is one of the top 5 wrestlers in the world right now. I agree (Well, not so much "top 5 wrestler"). Also, I feel that, moreorless, the WWE Champion does/should represent the company & is their identity. And I don't see why he shouldn't be their identity: You never hear his name in any NEWZ stories, he has a great attitude, he doesn't get himself involved with any "backstage politics," he's never failed on the Wellness Policy (which isn't saying much, as big a joke that the wellness policy is), good heat or bad he always takes it in stride. Along with that his above average wrestling ability (again I agree, he's alot better in the ring then he's been given credit for) and can be pretty good on the mic (when you look past the toilet humor). And he sells merch out the ass too.
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Post by Josh DELUXE on Sept 7, 2007 22:32:02 GMT -5
No there isn't. He's been arguably the most consistent guy as far as putting on good matches go. I disagree. Calling him one of the best WRESTLERS currently in the world, when his offense basically consists of punches, shoulder tackles and five knuckle shuffles, seems a bit of an oxymoron to me. I'm not sure what exactly qualifies as a good match from Cena personally, (since they all usually are the same way) but I can name about a dozen people who were far better at putting on consistent good matches than him. Morrison, Punk, HBK, Angle, Joe, Burke, MVP, and even Flair himself have put on great performances since Cena has been the top guy in the company. Really? I personally don;t think so. The Angle/Joe series SUCKED. Kurt Angle has always been overrated beyond belief not to mention he'll probably drop dead any moment now. Joe's been in a slump. Morrison has been good but he still has awkward moments. Same with Punk. In fact their feud got stale VERY quickly. Burke and MVP are fun but they haven't put on the type of matches that Cena has put on. And Shawn Michaels resembles a dying AIDS patient.
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Post by A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto) on Sept 7, 2007 22:38:52 GMT -5
I disagree. Calling him one of the best WRESTLERS currently in the world, when his offense basically consists of punches, shoulder tackles and five knuckle shuffles, seems a bit of an oxymoron to me. I'm not sure what exactly qualifies as a good match from Cena personally, (since they all usually are the same way) but I can name about a dozen people who were far better at putting on consistent good matches than him. Morrison, Punk, HBK, Angle, Joe, Burke, MVP, and even Flair himself have put on great performances since Cena has been the top guy in the company. Really? I personally don;t think so. The Angle/Joe series SUCKED. Kurt Angle has always been overrated beyond belief not to mention he'll probably drop dead any moment now. Joe's been in a slump. Morrison has been good but he still has awkward moments. Same with Punk. In fact their feud got stale VERY quickly. Burke and MVP are fun but they haven't put on the type of matches that Cena has put on. And Shawn Michaels resembles a dying AIDS patient. Well I suppose we will have to agree to disagree, then . I don't know how anyone could say Angle is overrated, with all the awesome moments he's provided, but to each his/her own. I agree with you about Morrison. He, at times, can be awkward, but for me it's still exciting to see what move he'll pull off next. Joe does some amazing things for a guy his size, and HBK, while old, still can go with the best of them (no matter what his face looks like). Just check out the last 10 minutes of Royal Rumble from this year.
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Post by Josh DELUXE on Sept 7, 2007 22:44:48 GMT -5
Really? I personally don;t think so. The Angle/Joe series SUCKED. Kurt Angle has always been overrated beyond belief not to mention he'll probably drop dead any moment now. Joe's been in a slump. Morrison has been good but he still has awkward moments. Same with Punk. In fact their feud got stale VERY quickly. Burke and MVP are fun but they haven't put on the type of matches that Cena has put on. And Shawn Michaels resembles a dying AIDS patient. Well I suppose we will have to agree to disagree, then . I don't know how anyone could say Angle is overrated, with all the awesome moments he's provided, but to each his/her own. I agree with you about Morrison. He, at times, can be awkward, but for me it's still exciting to see what move he'll pull off next. Joe does some amazing things for a guy his size, and HBK, while old, still can go with the best of them (no matter what his face looks like). Just check out the last 10 minutes of Royal Rumble from this year. As I said, Joe has been incredibly uninspired as of late. And I am/was a HUGE Joe fan. Angle is a spot-machine at best but he doesn't know how to put together a match that doesn;t include non-sensical highspots. Michaels WAS great in the Royal Rumble and in the Cena matches. But his offense looks like crap and his selling is among the worst around and draws too much attention on him and not enough on his opponent. Look at the Hogan match for example. Although Cena is in my personal top 5, I can certainly understand arguments otherwise with example of wrestlers that may actually be better than him right at this moment...but the ones you picked I don't agree with.
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Post by A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto) on Sept 7, 2007 22:59:31 GMT -5
Again, I feel differently just because I see the same thing in every Cena title match. His opponent beats the hell out of him, does some awesome moves, then Cena hits 3 moves that end the match instantly. I'm sorry, maybe I expect more from the guy who is supposedly the "top guy" in the company, or as you said in the top five in the world today. I just don't buy the same stale finish to every match he's in where the title is on the line.
You mention HBK's awful selling, but I recall Cena not selling the leg injury at WM 23 (the biggest show of the year) after Shawn practically ripped it off in that match. Anytime one of his opponent works a body part, he easily recovers and lifts up his opponent for an FU, despite the fact that he has been wore down for the entire match. I just don't think he's a believable champion based on how he has been booked to always win no matter who he faces.
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Post by Josh DELUXE on Sept 7, 2007 23:05:14 GMT -5
You mention HBK's awful selling, but I recall Cena not selling the leg injury at WM 23 (the biggest show of the year) after Shawn practically ripped it off in that match. Shawn stopped working on the leg after a while. So eventually Cena's leg healed enough to the point where he wasn't limping. Perfectly fine and understandable. I'll put it this way...when Shawn sells, he does it to draw attention to himself when in reality, selling is supposed to make the opponent look good. HBK is usually all HEY GUYS, CHECK IT OUT! IM SELLING! WINK WINK!". Cena's selling is perfectly fine. In fact, he got the best matches out of The Great Khali.
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Post by A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto) on Sept 7, 2007 23:21:21 GMT -5
Even if Shawn oversells sometimes, at least he has a history of selling well for guys in the past. Think back to his first run as champ where he fought all of those giants (Diesel, Sid, Vader, etc.) He made it believable as a small guy getting his tail kicked by those monsters. It seems like to me even if you stop working on a body part, it still would be hurting if you tried to do a move like lifting someone, where you need leg strength to execute it. All I'm saying is that it would be nice if Cena tried the FU and dropped him, or ya know showed some kind of struggle doing it when he gets beat up.
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Post by primetime110 on Sept 7, 2007 23:47:40 GMT -5
A lot of it, in my eyes, is the fact that there aren't many credible challengers for Cena left. Look back at the 80's NWA, though, and you've got Flair, Race, Rhodes, Steamboat, Koloff, Magnum, and later on Sting, Muta, and others...all guys who could just about always been looked on as credible challengers. Alot of the blame falls on the WWE on that. Edge was the only one to get any sucess on Cena. Once Cena destroyed Khali and Umaga, Noone can take them seriously as a world title contender.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 8, 2007 0:00:00 GMT -5
A lot of it, in my eyes, is the fact that there aren't many credible challengers for Cena left. Look back at the 80's NWA, though, and you've got Flair, Race, Rhodes, Steamboat, Koloff, Magnum, and later on Sting, Muta, and others...all guys who could just about always been looked on as credible challengers. Alot of the blame falls on the WWE on that. Edge was the only one to get any sucess on Cena. Once Cena destroyed Khali and Umaga, Noone can take them seriously as a world title contender. That's exactly my point. "Creative" has nobody to blame but themselves and whoever decides that Cena must always look like Superman. Really, it's more like Hogan; look back at Hogan's early title runs, and think back to all the "monsters" he vanquished, from Kamala, to Andre, to King Kong Bundy, so on and so forth. How many of those guys continued to look like true title threats after they faced Hogan and finished their feuds with them? Short answer: not many. The problem, obviously, is that Hogan wrestled in a different era, in front of a different audience, than Cena does...yet they're trying the same tactic with him, by and large.
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dpg
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,480
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Post by dpg on Sept 8, 2007 3:13:57 GMT -5
I stopped watching WWE because of a variety of things, one of which was supercena. Flair winning the title a lot was fine, because whoever he faced instantly became a big face who the crowd would cheer. You could have put the brooklyn brawler against him and the crowd would roar him on to win the belt, and Flair would be able to make him look a credible threat. Cena is, well, mediocre at best in the ring. His run as champ has basically meant the destruction of the main event heel ranks. And as for him having to be talented for his spot, he was given it. WWE decided he had the look for their champ, he was given a gimmick to get him over, then they kept pushing and pushing him no matter what the crowd thought. What former supposed main event face has been booed this much, ever? Even Flair used to get more cheers than Cena gets now, and thats because the crowd are being bored by them. Yes kids and women do cheer him, but they aren't the ones that'll travel hundreds of miles to see him, or buy ppv's with their friends, or buy dvd's. WWE sells its merchendise on its credibility, not on the product anymore, people buy it because it has WWE on it and some recognisable names for the most part. The career dvd's are different, they tend to sell hugely, and yet they don't feature Cena at all, hmmmmm.
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