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Post by BrodietheSlayer on Jul 27, 2007 6:49:36 GMT -5
You swear like it's Hogan's fault for Kidman's craptacular booking after the fued, once he was done fueding with Hogan, they put him in a nowhere fued with SHane Douglas.. THen when Hogan is gone, they don't take that opportunity to push kidman and prove Russo's point, they just proved Hogan right in that the company didn't believe in Kidman.. Hence, Hogan accomplished his task.....to make sure that Kidman would look like crap to the company by making Kidman look like a total jobber with a lucky push, rather than a future star. People seem to forget that how people perceive an up and coming star has a LOT to do with who he works with. One reason why Kennedy is SO over now has to do with the Undertaker making him look so good in their feud. He could have made Kennedy look like a total chump, which would have made him look like a jobber to the fans......and would have had Kennedy jerking the curtain on HEAT, rather than a star in the rising. But yes, the booking of the Kidman/Douglas feud could have been better, but Kidman was already pretty much dead as a NAME by then. It was only after he hooked back up with Rey towards WCW's end....that he became somewhat over again.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Jul 27, 2007 7:17:37 GMT -5
It's depressing that people were once throwing Kidman's name around as a guy who could be the next "Shawn Michaels". When the IWC started, people were throwing around the "next Michaels" tag (because HBK was supposedly done) for guys ranging from Chris Jericho to Danny Doering. Kidman was one of those guys, but unlike Doering, it was rightfully so.
Kidman should've made it. On-screen, WCW beat down his character, then WWE choked his character out. It sucks that he isn't working on TV right now.
Billy Kidman was 10-to-25 times the worker that "Chavo" is. It'd still be that way now, had WWE not fired Kidman. Why does Chavo have a job and Kidman doesn't?
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Post by BrodietheSlayer on Jul 27, 2007 7:28:03 GMT -5
Eddiesploitation
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Hiroshi Hase
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Jul 27, 2007 7:31:46 GMT -5
You swear like it's Hogan's fault for Kidman's craptacular booking after the fued, once he was done fueding with Hogan, they put him in a nowhere fued with SHane Douglas.. THen when Hogan is gone, they don't take that opportunity to push kidman and prove Russo's point, they just proved Hogan right in that the company didn't believe in Kidman.. Hence, Hogan accomplished his task.....to make sure that Kidman would look like crap to the company by making Kidman look like a total jobber with a lucky push, rather than a future star. People seem to forget that how people perceive an up and coming star has a LOT to do with who he works with. One reason why Kennedy is SO over now has to do with the Undertaker making him look so good in their feud. He could have made Kennedy look like a total chump, which would have made him look like a jobber to the fans......and would have had Kennedy jerking the curtain on HEAT, rather than a star in the rising. But yes, the booking of the Kidman/Douglas feud could have been better, but Kidman was already pretty much dead as a NAME by then. It was only after he hooked back up with Rey towards WCW's end....that he became somewhat over again. Well Russo could've ignored all that and just said "Hey, I'm going to give this guy a chance to really shine now that Hogan's gone", but he didn't, so it wasn't really Hogan's fault in that case. Just that Kidman wasn't a big name and against other main eventers such as Nash and Steiner, he wouldn't look believable. Kidman vs. Nash doesn't sound like a good main event for a PPV, Booker or Sting does. As for Rey being champion, that was pretty much a product of Eddiesploitation. As for Kidman being better than Chavo, that's debatable. All he really had was that so-so SSP and the counter to the powerbomb, that's about it. Nothing really special about the guy.
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Joekishi
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Post by Joekishi on Jul 27, 2007 17:22:45 GMT -5
YEah he gets it.
Why not just give Booker the fued?
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Post by Mongo & Pepe: Back in Black on Jul 27, 2007 17:27:58 GMT -5
Why did Booker get the shot and not Kidman? In terms of the storyline it would have made sense... Short version. The fans didn't take to Kidman as much as they did to Booker. Booker was way more over. So, they gave the shot to Booker.
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Post by Galluchadore on Jul 27, 2007 17:50:33 GMT -5
the whole New Blood vs Millionaires club on paper sounded great. But as soon as they started it i knew it was going to flop. They made the young hungry wrestlers heels and the older wrestlers the faces? If they were smart they would of flipped the roles and played off the perception that every wrestling fan had of wcw ands it rosters. "the old guys control everything and never let the younger wrestlers have their shot." Another thing was that they had both Vince Russo and Eric Bischoff team up in favor of the New Blood. Now i am not the biggest fan of Russos on air personality but wouldn't of made more sense to have i don't know side with the younger wrestlers who he seemed to favor and have Bishcoff side with the established who he liked ...
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 27, 2007 17:57:43 GMT -5
Spot on about the Hogan feud. There's no "putting a guy over" when "tweener" Hogan beats the hell out of a heel Kidman for 10 minutes, loses on a fluke pin, then beats the hell out of him for another 10 minutes. This wasn't Hogan's "creative control" either, this was just a stupid matchup from the get-go. Arguably, between 2000-2003, Kidman was misused and booked more terribly than any other young talent in the business...ever. Kidman was money from the moment he broke out of Raven's Flock. He should still be a star on RAW, Smackdown, or TNA...or at least a very credible veteran used to put young guys over every now and then. Back in the day, Billy Kidman and Juventud Guerrera would regularly have WCW Thunder matches that would compete for "TV Match of the Year" nowadays. It sucks that neither of those guys are relevant nowadays...they both have the talent. I agree. Thunder was the shiznite to watch in terms of the matches they would have, sometimes. All it took was the undercard to blow the roof off the joint. I think it's just a testament to how quickly the wrestling business can chew you up and spit you it. It takes maybe a little more than sheer talent and in-ring ability to stay on top and not to become irrelevant. I will say that it's sad that Juventud's name in any form of headline is always about his behavior. Speaking of luchadors on burn out mode, what happened with Essa Rios? Essa Rios left when he apparently refused to learn to speak English, something that held him back from day one when his opponents had no idea how to communicate with him.
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Post by derrtaysouth95 on Jul 27, 2007 22:30:59 GMT -5
I agree. Thunder was the shiznite to watch in terms of the matches they would have, sometimes. All it took was the undercard to blow the roof off the joint. I think it's just a testament to how quickly the wrestling business can chew you up and spit you it. It takes maybe a little more than sheer talent and in-ring ability to stay on top and not to become irrelevant. I will say that it's sad that Juventud's name in any form of headline is always about his behavior. Speaking of luchadors on burn out mode, what happened with Essa Rios? Essa Rios left when he apparently refused to learn to speak English, something that held him back from day one when his opponents had no idea how to communicate with him. he's back wrestling in Mexico would be my guess. under a different name and maybe a mask. didn't he appear a few times in TNA during an x-cup tournament? *Christian (Cage) said he had his worst match with Essa Rios **Juvi screwed Juvi ***Hogan is a selfish asshole.
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hollywood
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Post by hollywood on Jul 27, 2007 23:28:40 GMT -5
Perhaps. However, the decision to put a scrawny youngster against a bulked up veteran and expecting audiences to buy it as a legitimate match was idiotic. And Rey is invalid as a champion. Also, it could have worked if Kidman wasn't a heel and you-know-who sold and whatnot. Kids were freakin behind Kidman. I can still remember the last few WCW shows here and the biggest pops were between Kidman, The FA and Sting. I'm not real sure if this is agreeing or disagreeing with me. I hated Rey as champ, maybe it could've worked but certainly not the way WWE did it. I'll never defend Hulk Hogan, but to suggest that a small guy like Kidman stood a chance against someone Hogan's size is simply ludicrous.
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Post by BrodietheSlayer on Jul 28, 2007 0:15:01 GMT -5
If we want to talk Why's of the 2000 Russo era.....here is one that NEVER gets brought up. Why, if they were grooming Booker to be a World Champion, did they give him that STUPID GI Bro gimmick right before they gave him the belt?
Yes, I know it was a gimmick Booker had near the beginning of his career, and yes, I know it let him fit in with the MIA group......but it was REALLY dumb and cartoony, and killed any good heat Booker had going into a World Title situation.
It would have been like WWE putting Austin in a clown suit and makeup for a couple of months, prior to his winning the HW belt at WM14.....it would have killed him "Stone Cold" in the eyes of the fans.
Which is why when Booker finally won the title.....the reaction was lukewarm, and he HAD been super over before.
That, to me, is a more baffling question than even David Arquette as champion.....and one I would honestly ask Russo if I ever met him.
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Post by lildude8218 on Jul 28, 2007 0:33:40 GMT -5
I think Kidman was in the absolute wrong place. He should've never been in a program with Hogan. Like someone said earlier, the size difference was ridiculous. People complain about Hogan only letting him go over because of interference but how realistic would it have been for him to go over Hogan cleanly?
Hogan probably should've been in a feud with Mike Awesome at the time. At least Awesome could have given Hogan a more realistic battle.
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Post by popples on Jul 28, 2007 1:56:09 GMT -5
I think Kidman was in the absolute wrong place. He should've never been in a program with Hogan. Like someone said earlier, the size difference was ridiculous. People complain about Hogan only letting him go over because of interference but how realistic would it have been for him to go over Hogan cleanly? Hogan probably should've been in a feud with Mike Awesome at the time. At least Awesome could have given Hogan a more realistic battle. My thoughts exactly as well. It didn't hurt that Awesome was somehow related to Hogan also, perfect fodder for a feud.
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Post by robferatu on Jul 28, 2007 4:14:51 GMT -5
I stand behind Kidman should have never been in a fued with Hogan, New Blood or no New Blood it would never make sense. If they were to place Hogan in a fued with supposed New Blood it should have been against Scott Steiner. Someone that can physically match Hogan.
I've said it once, and I'll say again if booked correctly The New Blood angle could have saved WCW, or should I say if some of the veterns would have been more willing to put over the younger guys.
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Hiroshi Hase
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Jul 28, 2007 7:54:15 GMT -5
If we want to talk Why's of the 2000 Russo era.....here is one that NEVER gets brought up. Why, if they were grooming Booker to be a World Champion, did they give him that STUPID GI Bro gimmick right before they gave him the belt? Yes, I know it was a gimmick Booker had near the beginning of his career, and yes, I know it let him fit in with the MIA group......but it was REALLY dumb and cartoony, and killed any good heat Booker had going into a World Title situation. It would have been like WWE putting Austin in a clown suit and makeup for a couple of months, prior to his winning the HW belt at WM14.....it would have killed him "Stone Cold" in the eyes of the fans. Which is why when Booker finally won the title.....the reaction was lukewarm, and he HAD been super over before. That, to me, is a more baffling question than even David Arquette as champion.....and one I would honestly ask Russo if I ever met him. The G.I Bro gimmick wasn't bad and in fact was quite over getting "GI Bro" chants and what have you. He was part of M.I.A who were over in their own rights, so it wasn't like he was put in a mask and called "Who?" or anything. If you didn't like it, that's fine, but a lot of others did. I was watching BATB 00 and the reaction was huge when he won the title from Jarrett, so it wasn't like he was getting golfclaps or anything.
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