ECW Rating...

[mysterydriver]

randomranter said:

Um......ECW ran for several YEARS having all Extreme Rules matches. Nobody got sick of it then. (The company tanked largely because of Paul's total lack of ability managing the money......). And that's what they were hoping for when ECW was relaunched. The fact that they aren't all extreme rules turned a large chunk of the potential audience away, and is one of the reasons that the ratings are down from 2.8 to 1.2

Of course, when ECW first started up, their style was new. Now, thanks to companies like XPW and CZW, people are desenistized to extreme matches. Also, consider WWE's history with hardcore style matches.

A large reason the ratings are down froma 2.8 is loss of talent including: Kurt Angle, The Big Show, RVD, Sabu, and others.

Talent draws in casual wrestling fans. ECW bottomed out a 1.1 and is now dragging itself back up the ratings chart by establishing new wrestlers and stars for people to recognize. If the WWE would take the time to actually ADVERTISE the show, they'd be much better off.

An example would be the 1.5 that CM Punk's title win brought in after heavy hyping and a video package on Raw.

So the fact that it was passed around to literally everybody on the roster (Terri had it, for Christ's sake!) had nothing to do with it? Or the fact that it was passed around so frequently it was impossible to keep track of who was champ?

And why did they start doing that? Because people didn't really care about the title or the matches. They had to resort to comedy and things of that sort to keep people noticing the belt.

Sidenote: I'm not complaining about that. That era of "hardcore" turned me into a Crash Holly (RIP) fan.

On Raw or SD, I'd agree. On ECW, they should all be extreme rules. If they're not, then why call it ECW at all?

ECW is basically a name at this point. The original product died a while ago. It had a Rise and Fall DVD. Not a Rise and Fall and Soon to Rise Again DVD.

The name was used for pure advertisment. Sure, that ticks people off. It probably should, but that is how it was.

Also, there is the argument that if you have ECW guys doing extreme matches, it makes the other shows look weak. Balls Mahoney takes 10 chairs shots and kick out while a chairshot to the back of random midcarder #6 knocks them out.

I just think that a build the Extreme Rules match make them more important.

Remember the Extreme Rules match after Wrestlemania? The crowd popped for RVD looking under the ring. Looking under the ring. Really.

Would they do that if every match was extreme? No. They'd expect it.

That, again, is just my view.

[randomranter]

mysterydriver said:

Of course, when ECW first started up, their style was new. Now, thanks to companies like XPW and CZW, people are desenistized to extreme matches. Also, consider WWE's history with hardcore style matches.

If you mention XPW or CZW to your average wrestling fan, you probably won't get much more of a response than a blank look, a distant stare, and a "What's that?"

Most fans don't even know these companies exist. How can they be desensitizing your average fan to hardcore wrestling when your average fan doesn't watch or even know of them?

A large reason the ratings are down froma 2.8 is loss of talent including: Kurt Angle, The Big Show, RVD, Sabu, and others.

The lack of star power has caused ratings as a whole to drop. But ECW is dropping at a far faster rate than Raw or SD. Yes, the star power does have a lot to do with it. So does only having a 12 man roster. So do a lot of other factors. But one of those factors is that this is nowhere near what the hardcore ECW fans remember, nor is it nowhere near as good.

Talent draws in casual wrestling fans. ECW bottomed out a 1.1 and is now dragging itself back up the ratings chart by establishing new wrestlers and stars for people to recognize. If the WWE would take the time to actually ADVERTISE the show, they'd be much better off.

This will never happen, and we both know it. Sad, but true. Vince revived it to (a) "show us" that his product was better than everything else, and (b) make a few bucks in the process. There is no possible way that Vince is going to ever allow ECW to be on the same playing field as Raw or SD, or even in the same ballpark. If ECW ever shows real signs of promise, you can bet that Vince will completely neuter it, because heaven forbid a non-homegrown product actually becomes successful.

An example would be the 1.5 that CM Punk's title win brought in after heavy hyping and a video package on Raw.

And a lot of that was because people knew that punk was winning the title. Morrison was on his way to a 30 day suspension, so everybody knew that Punk was winning the title. Had the steroid scandal not happened, that episode likely would have drawn the same 1.1 rating that we're getting now. People tuned in to see Punk win, then tuned right back out.

And why did they start doing that? Because people didn't really care about the title or the matches. They had to resort to comedy and things of that sort to keep people noticing the belt.

It's tough for people to care when your champions consist of:

Terri
Test
People who matter less than Test
Local jobber #289 who held it for 5 seconds at a house show
The referee

Sidenote: I'm not complaining about that. That era of "hardcore" turned me into a Crash Holly (RIP) fan.

One of the biggest draws to the WWE hardcore division was the 24/7 rule, and Crash Holly played his role to absolute perfection. Once that rule disappeared, a lot of people lost interest in the belt.

Also, there is the argument that if you have ECW guys doing extreme matches, it makes the other shows look weak. Balls Mahoney takes 10 chairs shots and kick out while a chairshot to the back of random midcarder #6 knocks them out.

This happens all the time anyway.

On Raw, "Face-In-Peril" is in the main event match. He gets attacked by the heel wrestler, and lays him out with a single chair (or belt, if one is a champion) shot to the back of the head. Raw fades out with the face-in-peril selling the single shot like death. Or at best, he's waking up groggy, holding the back of his head after being "out cold" for several minutes.

On the PPV, Face-In-Peril takes 642 chair shots, gets put through a table, has the steel steps rammed into his head, has a finsihing hold put on him twice, and STILL manages to not only kick out, but come back and win the match.

In the very next match, we're right back to one chair shot ending the match.

Continuity is not, and never has been, one of wrestling's strong points.

I just think that a build the Extreme Rules match make them more important.

Remember the Extreme Rules match after Wrestlemania? The crowd popped for RVD looking under the ring. Looking under the ring. Really.

Would they do that if every match was extreme? No. They'd expect it.

That, again, is just my view.

It was RVD, who had been gaining a fair bit of popularity. He was reaching a point where no matter what he did, the crowd was going to pop. They weren't popping for RVD looking under the ring. They were popping for RVD in general.

[Drillbit Taylor]

So you use the casual fan argument against the Trash wrestling of Phili area, but then you say the casual fan Knew that Morrison was going to a 30 day suspension. Um, Im betting the casual fan did NOT know. The Internet fan did, but the casual one did not.

[randomranter]

hotrod05 said:

So you use the casual fan argument against the Trash wrestling of Phili area, but then you say the casual fan Knew that Morrison was going to a 30 day suspension. Um, Im betting the casual fan did NOT know. The Internet fan did, but the casual one did not.

Most casual fans will not know of things like XPW or CZW. Unlike the steroid scandal, XPW/CZW doesn't make national mainstream headlines.

Most casual fans, however, did have knowledge of the steroid scandal, and the dozen or so wrestlers suspended as a result. It was all over the news. I had people -- non wrestling fans, mind you -- walking up to me at work asking me about "those wrestlers". My manager asked me if John and Jim Morrison were related. And of course the tirade of questions on if this was all linked to the Benoit incident.

While I'd agree with you that most casual fans don't follow wrestling news/spoilers/backstage happenings in general, I have to disagree on this one -- I think a large chunk of casual fans knew exactly what was going to happen, because of all the mainstream news coverage. They hear from the mainstream news that 12 wrestlers got suspended, and I'm willing to bet a lot of them started googling to find out if their favorite wrestler(s) were on the list.

[wwerules60]

mysterydriver said:

chainsawiscaw said:

It won't. Please welcome back Velocity, with your hosts Josh Matthews and Tazz.

Thanks for the info...

Your optimism is blinding.

yjc1019 said:

I don't even think that would work, especially on a crowd that has already sat through 2 hours of SD.

Also, what is the obession with constant extreme rules?

Hey, let's desensitize people to Extreme Rules matches, thus making them useless!

Or do we not remember how the Hardcore title had to become a comedy belt because no one really cared anymore?

Extreme Rules matches should be used, but only as feud enders.

That's my opinion, of course.

I think it could just be like the old ECW where they didn't mention that it was extreme rules it was just implied. That way someone could use weapons if they wanted but all the matches didn't have to be that way.

In the old ECW all the matches had no rules but they weren't all full of weapons and stuff.

[ChitownKnight]

randomranter said:

hotrod05 said:

So you use the casual fan argument against the Trash wrestling of Phili area, but then you say the casual fan Knew that Morrison was going to a 30 day suspension. Um, Im betting the casual fan did NOT know. The Internet fan did, but the casual one did not.

Most casual fans will not know of things like XPW or CZW. Unlike the steroid scandal, XPW/CZW doesn't make national mainstream headlines.

Most casual fans, however, did have knowledge of the steroid scandal, and the dozen or so wrestlers suspended as a result. It was all over the news. I had people -- non wrestling fans, mind you -- walking up to me at work asking me about "those wrestlers". My manager asked me if John and Jim Morrison were related. And of course the tirade of questions on if this was all linked to the Benoit incident.

While I'd agree with you that most casual fans don't follow wrestling news/spoilers/backstage happenings in general, I have to disagree on this one -- I think a large chunk of casual fans knew exactly what was going to happen, because of all the mainstream news coverage. They hear from the mainstream news that 12 wrestlers got suspended, and I'm willing to bet a lot of them started googling to find out if their favorite wrestler(s) were on the list.

and wwe.com also announced that CM Punk won the ECW title before it aired

[mysterydriver]

toht said:

Time to scrap this crap

I take your wonderfully thought out post and respond with such:



Good day, sir.

...

I said Good day!

[JMA]

ALL the matches in ECW should be Extreme Rules but, like others have said, that doesn't mean they have to have weapons. For example, two technical wrestlers in an Extreme Rules match wouldn't use weapons. Instead, they would use the fact that there are no rope breaks and no count-outs to their advantage. On the other hand, someone like Balls Mahoney would always use weapons. It's pretty simple really.