Selling by a face/heel

[J is Justice]

Does anyone think that a Face should sell his opponents moves more realistcally? And a Heel's selling should be more over the top?

Like, I hate to make a Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels comparison but here we go:

Bret's selling was very realistic and you'd be able to feel sympathy for him (well, I did anyway) and you'd want him to go on and win. But when he was a heel you'd still feel sorry for him cause he was so good at selling and looked like he was in genuine pain.

Now, Shawn's selling is very over the top and when he's a heel it's good to see him get the crap kicked out of him cause it's just humourous to watch when he's flipping and flopping all over the place.

I was just wondering if anyone felt the same if I've made any sence at all.

[The Ichi]

I agree. The face should always connect with the fans and make them want to feel sorry for them and want them to (hate to say it, but...) overcome the odds in the end. The heel should oversell more than the face so the fans can enjoy them getting the crap knocked out of them but also find them entertaining. In that respect...

Best babyface sellers: Bret Hart, Kurt Angle and John Cena

Best heel sellers: Shawn Michaels, Ric Flair, The Rock and Randy Orton

Just my opinion anyway.

[H-Fist]

I think the big issue is what's being sold. Heels are selling more wrestling holds and moves. The babyface, on the other hand, is selling kicks/punches/high-impact moves. A heel should never be outwrestling a babyface unless it is a shooter/MMA gimmick. So a heel has to sell the breaking down, overselling to make a wristlock or armbar...ARMBAR...or spinning toe hold like it might make you tap - otherwise, why would the babyface use the damn thing? The heel on the other hand is dishing out offense intended to hurt the babyface. So the babyface is selling the black eye he'll wake up with tomorrow or the separated shoulder from the shoulderbreaker or the dislocated knee from having his leg wrapped around the corner pole. Selling is, generally, the same in terms of psychology of facial expression, body movement and vocalization; but it is so different when done well.

[The F'N Captain]

There's more than I'll ever know that involves proper selling. I've always said "If a guy is selling a move right you won't realize he's actually selling".

Example: Finlay on the stretcher then attacking Rey. Looked legit.

[tna]

Bret Hart was very realistic and while Shawn is over the top, I think it fits his "over the top personality", he is the showstopper.

I think the selling has to go hand in the hand with the character.

It's important for both to sell, but since the face will be doing the majority of the match, it is especially important for him.

RVD always drove me nuts when he would do the five-star frogsplash and then act like his ribs were broken. After a while it was like "if it hurts that much then don't f***ing do it".

[HRH The KING]

Yes.

A face should be realistic, while a heel absurd.

[Captain Wonderful]

hrhtheking said:

A face should be realistic, while a heel absurd.

Agreed and agreed. I'm DEFINITELY of the opinion that a heel's job is to look like a total dick in every way possible. Like Michaels and Hogan; I realize that Michaels was trying to make HOGAN look like a jerk, but, to me, he played the heel brilliantly. There was all this build-up, him kicking Hogan from behind and "I'm gonna be the better man," and then he gets crushed in a most ridiculous fashion. That's the kind of heel I want to be, I can't get enough of that.

[big nasty]

best example i can think of was when rick rude would sell an atomic drop from someone like the warrior. lame move, but he sold it like someone just stuck a pencil in his rear, and since he had just insulted the crowd before the match, they ate it up.

macho man was the best face seller imo. by the end of every match he was limping, holding the bakc of his head, clutching his arm to his side, he really made it look like he had put it all out there to win, and again the crowd ate it up. far more realistic than guys who are running about the ring, jumping on the turnbuckle celebrating after a "slobberknocker" match.

[thesunbeast]

jamerz said:

Does anyone think that a Face should sell his opponents moves more realistcally? And a Heel's selling should be more over the top?

Like, I hate to make a Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels comparison but here we go:

Bret's selling was very realistic and you'd be able to feel sympathy for him (well, I did anyway) and you'd want him to go on and win. But when he was a heel you'd still feel sorry for him cause he was so good at selling and looked like he was in genuine pain.

Now, Shawn's selling is very over the top and when he's a heel it's good to see him get the crap kicked out of him cause it's just humourous to watch when he's flipping and flopping all over the place.

I was just wondering if anyone felt the same if I've made any sence at all.

that actually IS the way wrestlers do things, especially in the WWE. HBK really only sells over the top like that when he's playing the role of heel.

[Deleted]

tna said:

Bret Hart was very realistic and while Shawn is over the top, I think it fits his "over the top personality", he is the showstopper.

I think the selling has to go hand in the hand with the character.

It's important for both to sell, but since the face will be doing the majority of the match, it is especially important for him.

RVD always drove me nuts when he would do the five-star frogsplash and then act like his ribs were broken. After a while it was like "if it hurts that much then don't smurfing do it".

I thought the same thing when Van Dam would do that splash. Drove me crazy.

[Deleted]

sandman said:

tna said:

Bret Hart was very realistic and while Shawn is over the top, I think it fits his "over the top personality", he is the showstopper.

I think the selling has to go hand in the hand with the character.

It's important for both to sell, but since the face will be doing the majority of the match, it is especially important for him.

RVD always drove me nuts when he would do the five-star frogsplash and then act like his ribs were broken. After a while it was like "if it hurts that much then don't smurfing do it".

I thought the same thing when Van Dam would do that splash. Drove me crazy.

i'm with them ^

[Dr. Bunsen Honeydew]

MY favorite is a heel Ric Flair selling a simple knucklelock. He'd immediately fall to his knees and scream like he had all his fingers broken.

[Mozenrath]

sandman said:

tna said:

Bret Hart was very realistic and while Shawn is over the top, I think it fits his "over the top personality", he is the showstopper.

I think the selling has to go hand in the hand with the character.

It's important for both to sell, but since the face will be doing the majority of the match, it is especially important for him.

RVD always drove me nuts when he would do the five-star frogsplash and then act like his ribs were broken. After a while it was like "if it hurts that much then don't smurfing do it".

I thought the same thing when Van Dam would do that splash. Drove me crazy.

Never bothered me. Got him a 3 count, didn't it?

[Big L]

kiddobradley said:

sandman said:

I thought the same thing when Van Dam would do that splash. Drove me crazy.

Never bothered me. Got him a 3 count, didn't it?

yea i know

[Bram wants to 'urt you]

I've never been a huge fan of blade jobs, but if they are used, then I always feel the face should bleed rather than the heel. If a face bleeds then continues wrestling, it's because they are such a tough competitor that they can suck it up and carry on going despite the nasty tricks that the evil heel has played on them. The heel bleeding however, would often be viewed as them "getting what they deserve". What "they deserve" in the context of wrestling, is to lose the match. Wishing that a heel gets busted open because they're the villain, and for no other reason, strikes me as an unhealthy emotion to bring out in the fans.

[Dr. T is an alien]

sandman said:

tna said:

Bret Hart was very realistic and while Shawn is over the top, I think it fits his "over the top personality", he is the showstopper.

I think the selling has to go hand in the hand with the character.

It's important for both to sell, but since the face will be doing the majority of the match, it is especially important for him.

RVD always drove me nuts when he would do the five-star frogsplash and then act like his ribs were broken. After a while it was like "if it hurts that much then don't smurfing do it".

I thought the same thing when Van Dam would do that splash. Drove me crazy.

I actually did not mind that so much as the fact that he sold everytihing else that was not meant to be a potential finisher like crap. He spiked himself for DDT's, piledrivers, RKO's, and his own finisher, but otherwise you would have no idea if that last move hurt him much or not.

[wwerules60]

tna said:

Bret Hart was very realistic and while Shawn is over the top, I think it fits his "over the top personality", he is the showstopper.

I think the selling has to go hand in the hand with the character.

It's important for both to sell, but since the face will be doing the majority of the match, it is especially important for him.

RVD always drove me nuts when he would do the five-star frogsplash and then act like his ribs were broken. After a while it was like "if it hurts that much then don't smurfing do it".

I think a major part of RVD's character was that he would risk his own body just to get that win. I agree that it was kind of stupid when he sold it like he had been shot but it made sense that he would risk his own body.