The Crossface at Survivor Series

[Andrew is Good]

The crowd reaction was odd, but the move made sense for story purposes.

JR talked about how Michaels was studying tapes of himself before the match, and how he could beat Randy Orton using an alternative to the Sweet Chin Music. So, he went in the direction of using submission holds that many of the wrestlers he's faced over the years used.

Bret Hart and the sharpshooter, Benoit and the crossface, and Angle and the Ankle lock. He was going for Flair's figure 4 as well, but Orton countered.

So, to say it was just a move isn't true, because in storyline purposes, he watched his matches with Benoit and used it to try and beat Orton, same with the sharpshooter, the ankle lock, and the attempted figure 4. Not that I think it's too soon or whatever, but the reason he did use it in my eyes was because it was used against him so many times when facing Benoit.

[Deleted]

Offensive? no.

Completely unnecessary? Yes.

It says something about the WWE, when they have to rely on a murderers signature move to get heat.

It's not like it was a headlock or armbar. Fact is that the crossface is 99% associated with Benoit.

I'm surprised at the reaction, considering how much everyone hated Eddiesploitation.

[mikedh]

I thought it was awkward as hell due to the fact that Benoit used a wrestling move to kill a kid and it was widely speculated to have been that. JR really handled it well too by not mentioning Chris though.

I don't really care, but if someone in the media points it out as a negative, then WWE brought it on themselves. I am a little dissapointed and I find it unnecessary. Isnt this kind of disrespectful to Daniel?

[Deleted]

brentreznor said:

Offensive? no.

Completely unnecessary? Yes.

It says something about the WWE, when they have to rely on a murderers signature move to get heat.

It's not like it was a headlock or armbar. Fact is that the crossface is 99% associated with Benoit.

I'm surprised at the reaction, considering how much everyone hated Eddiesploitation.

It sounds like you are offended. Like it was explained, kayfabe wise it makes sense. Comparing this to Randy Orton saying Eddie is in hell doesn't make sense to me.

[Jeff]

Other: Who cares

[Deleted]

mdoggdx316 said:

brentreznor said:

Offensive? no.

Completely unnecessary? Yes.

It says something about the WWE, when they have to rely on a murderers signature move to get heat.

It's not like it was a headlock or armbar. Fact is that the crossface is 99% associated with Benoit.

I'm surprised at the reaction, considering how much everyone hated Eddiesploitation.

It sounds like you are offended. Like it was explained, kayfabe wise it makes sense. Comparing this to Randy Orton saying Eddie is in hell doesn't make sense to me.

Kayfabe it says that Shawn wanted the title so bad. That he was willing to use a move that allegedly killed a 7 year old.

If HBK is supposed to be a holier than thou Christian face. It makes no sense.

I wasn't disgusted or anything. I just thought it was lazy, cheap booking.

Also, now that I think about it. I wonder how different the reaction would be, if it was Orton doing the move.

[oltrelamorte]

I didn't really think much into it. It's just a move.

[A Dubya (El Hombre Muerto)]

I loved it. I thought it was perfect timing.

[Vice honcho room temperature]

I don't know what to think about it.

[Andrew is Good]

brentreznor said:

mdoggdx316 said:

It sounds like you are offended. Like it was explained, kayfabe wise it makes sense. Comparing this to Randy Orton saying Eddie is in hell doesn't make sense to me.

Kayfabe it says that Shawn wanted the title so bad. That he was willing to use a move that allegedly killed a 7 year old.

If HBK is supposed to be a holier than thou Christian face. It makes no sense.

I wasn't disgusted or anything. I just thought it was lazy, cheap booking.

Also, now that I think about it. I wonder how different the reaction would be, if it was Orton doing the move.

No. As I said, Michaels did it because it was a finishing move used against him a lot in the past, which is the reason he used the sharpshooter, ankle lock, and attempted the figure 4.

And besides, Shawn Michaels is a babyface. Why would he want people to hate him? It's not cheap lazy booking at all. It would be bad booking if they wanted that, but they didn't. It was a move done to him before, and as explained by Ross in the commentary, he was watching a lot of old tapes before the match, which is why all the established submissions came out.

Besides, the crossface can't kill a person and wasn't likely the wrestling move that killed Daniel. It was likely a chinlock/sleeperhold type move, because what that does is it cuts of the cordid arteries to the brain, and if applied long enough, the person in the hold dies due to asphexiation. It's similar to how a hanging works. I know that sounds morbid I guess, but the move that killed Daniel wasn't the crossface. Though I guess that does sound a little morbid.

[Pretty Ricky]

avalanchealvarez said:

It's not disrespectful and if he did it right, it's a cool idea.
I would mark for a wrestler who's gimmick was using other wrestler's finishers.

And if he was retarded it would make it even better.

[Chris the Bambikiller]

I would say the timing was just right. It actually made Orton look good that he could escape multiple submission moves. It looked kind of weak though, as if Shawn didn't pull hard enough.

[Red 'n' Black Reggie]

i'm glad they're doing it. at the time it made me gasp a bit, but if you ask me they should begin integrating the move back into wrestling. it's a good move, and so long as they just put it in every now and then, i don't think anyone would be offended.

although i don't agree with whoever said that it should be a new wrestler's finisher. that guy (or girl) will have a negative stigma from many right from the start. maybe give it a few years.

[Raja Lion]

I think its good he used it. Its still an effective move and I'd like to see a guy make it his own now and get past the stigma of Benoit. Granted, HBK won't be making it his own, but there should be no reason it be taboo.

[Cranjis McBasketball]

I got to thinking it could be a litmus test for re-introducing Benoit into WWE history. WWE has some DVDs releases that we planned (the SummerSlam and Survivor Series sets) which Benoit is definately a part of. So, you can't just start mentioning Benoit again, but if you re-introduce some of his signature moves, see how the crowd reacts, maybe you can get an idea if the fans wanna see his old matches.

Just a thought.

[MCMGM]

zakatk4 said:

avalanchealvarez said:

It's not disrespectful and if he did it right, it's a cool idea.
I would mark for a wrestler who's gimmick was using other wrestler's finishers.

And if he was retarded it would make it even better.

Shhh, you're not suppose to remember that.

[The Ichi]

I didn't watch the PPV, but from the sounds of things, it was just done for storyline/ match psychology purposes rather than "omg hbk iz teh controversies!!1~". So I'm fine with it.

[bigjimmy]

its a wrestling move plain and simple i felt niether suprise or shock at it being used again.

at the end of the day it was going to be used again sooner or later!