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Post by PTBartman on Nov 24, 2007 18:03:51 GMT -5
I'm just pissed at JBL trying to shove wrestlers (especially awful ones) down our throats and then freaks out when someone else tries that. And I don't like JBL in general. He's a HEEL. He's SUPPOSED to be contradictory and hypocritical. He's playing a CHARACTER. And BTW, are you calling Jamie Noble an awful wrestler? JBL is one of the all time great heel announcers that I've seen. On top of the pyramid Is Bobby Heenan. Just below him are Heyman, Zabysko, Ventura and JBL in what ever order you want to put them. (Taz and King were good b4 they decided they wanted to be loved)
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Post by rubber johnny on Nov 24, 2007 18:56:06 GMT -5
EVERYBODY WANTS TO BE ON FRIDAY NIGHT SMACKDOWN
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General Zod
Samurai Cop
KNEEL!
KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!
Posts: 2,163
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Post by General Zod on Nov 24, 2007 19:18:10 GMT -5
JBL sucks. He sucks as a commentator, and he was marginal as a wrestler. The only reason he spent so many months as WWE champion was because (quite litterally) they had nobody else.
Bottom line.
The problem is, since the WWE has been putting out a mediocre product for so long now, you guys don't even remember what good is supposed to be like. So, when a guy comes along, and he mildly amuses you, you herald him as the next great thing without batting an eyelid, and since you do that, the WWE has no choice but to continue pushing said mediocrity. They're only giving you what you want, afterall. Who can fault them?
JBL will never be more than a soap-raping generic "veteran" who got lucky because there was nobody better at the time.
The thing is, there are some really great commentators out there in places that the WWE won't look these days because they want to project a certain image before thier overall product gets developed. This is the same company that hires sitcom writers to script a two hour show because they either have no faith in their current wrestler's abilities to cut a promo for themselves, or the talent pool on their roster is so thin that they have no choice. This is the same company that should have taken the entire pro wrestling fanbase and capitalized on it once they bought ECW and WCW, but instead gave us the Invasion angle, that ultimately sucked and lost money and viewers instead of created more. This is the same company that gave you Katie Vick, Mae Young's hand, and exploited the death of Eddie Gurerro as legitimate efforts to keep you, the viewer, interested in the product.
Honestly, you guys that claim to love JBL? Is it because you're so used to the product sucking so bad, or do you truly and genuinely like his commentary? Is he comparable to the likes of Bobby Heenan, or even Jerry Lawler (when he was good)? Or is it just because nothing better is on the horizon, and he's better than 90% of the crap they've tossed at you lately (which doesn't make him good)?
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Nov 24, 2007 19:40:01 GMT -5
JBL sucks. He sucks as a commentator, and he was marginal as a wrestler. The only reason he spent so many months as WWE champion was because (quite litterally) they had nobody else. Bottom line. The problem is, since the WWE has been putting out a mediocre product for so long now, you guys don't even remember what good is supposed to be like. So, when a guy comes along, and he mildly amuses you, you herald him as the next great thing without batting an eyelid, and since you do that, the WWE has no choice but to continue pushing said mediocrity. They're only giving you what you want, afterall. Who can fault them? JBL will never be more than a soap-raping generic "veteran" who got lucky because there was nobody better at the time. The thing is, there are some really great commentators out there in places that the WWE won't look these days because they want to project a certain image before thier overall product gets developed. This is the same company that hires sitcom writers to script a two hour show because they either have no faith in their current wrestler's abilities to cut a promo for themselves, or the talent pool on their roster is so thin that they have no choice. This is the same company that should have taken the entire pro wrestling fanbase and capitalized on it once they bought ECW and WCW, but instead gave us the Invasion angle, that ultimately sucked and lost money and viewers instead of created more. This is the same company that gave you Katie Vick, Mae Young's hand, and exploited the death of Eddie Gurerro as legitimate efforts to keep you, the viewer, interested in the product. Honestly, you guys that claim to love JBL? Is it because you're so used to the product sucking so bad, or do you truly and genuinely like his commentary? Is he comparable to the likes of Bobby Heenan, or even Jerry Lawler (when he was good)? Or is it just because nothing better is on the horizon, and he's better than 90% of the crap they've tossed at you lately (which doesn't make him good)? If I could be honest here, there's so many things wrong with that statement, it's hard to find where to start. Let's skip the whole thing about your view on JBL because people have different views on him as shown from the original poster and the posts after. Mediocrity, like most things, is only determined by what people think is mediocrity. I thought this past WM was Mediocre, but others really liked it. Good on them, if they do. And this whole thing about 'pushing mediocrity' and then we 'lap it up' is, again, a person's opinion. People like to boo Santino, for example, so then he's made into a bigger character. People laughed at Ron Simmons coming out and saying 'DAMN!' for a couple of weeks and the next thing you know, he is made into a vocal character. Whether it's mediocre or not is your choice to say, but don't act like you're superior because others like things you don't. Yes, there are things wrong with the way the WWE works and yes, there are things that haven't worked as well as they thought it would (or, with the InVasion, didn't want to work with), but they're still in business and they're still making money so they must be doing something right. Also, what's the point on going out and hireing someone when you got someone people already react to in your company doing nothing? Which is where JBL stepped in. Again, the product 'sucking badly' is only preference. If you think it sucks, great. Others don't think it sucks and find good things about it like Santino Marella and Jericho's Return. Doesn't mean they're used to it being bad, it just means they find the show good to watch. Personally, JBL on commantary is awesome simply because it's a breath of fresh air. On Raw, ECW and TNA, it's the same cookie cutter commantary where the two of them rant on the bad guys and just said the same things. JBL is someone who reminds me of Bobby in a big way, but brings his own personality to the table which is great to hear someone do. It's not to do with me being used to crap, it's me finding enjoyment in something.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 24, 2007 19:47:31 GMT -5
JBL sucks. He sucks as a commentator, and he was marginal as a wrestler. The only reason he spent so many months as WWE champion was because (quite litterally) they had nobody else. Bottom line. The problem is, since the WWE has been putting out a mediocre product for so long now, you guys don't even remember what good is supposed to be like. So, when a guy comes along, and he mildly amuses you, you herald him as the next great thing without batting an eyelid, and since you do that, the WWE has no choice but to continue pushing said mediocrity. They're only giving you what you want, afterall. Who can fault them? JBL will never be more than a soap-raping generic "veteran" who got lucky because there was nobody better at the time. The thing is, there are some really great commentators out there in places that the WWE won't look these days because they want to project a certain image before thier overall product gets developed. This is the same company that hires sitcom writers to script a two hour show because they either have no faith in their current wrestler's abilities to cut a promo for themselves, or the talent pool on their roster is so thin that they have no choice. This is the same company that should have taken the entire pro wrestling fanbase and capitalized on it once they bought ECW and WCW, but instead gave us the Invasion angle, that ultimately sucked and lost money and viewers instead of created more. This is the same company that gave you Katie Vick, Mae Young's hand, and exploited the death of Eddie Gurerro as legitimate efforts to keep you, the viewer, interested in the product. Honestly, you guys that claim to love JBL? Is it because you're so used to the product sucking so bad, or do you truly and genuinely like his commentary? Is he comparable to the likes of Bobby Heenan, or even Jerry Lawler (when he was good)? Or is it just because nothing better is on the horizon, and he's better than 90% of the crap they've tossed at you lately (which doesn't make him good)? My answer isn't nearly as long as yours, but it's the truth. I like him because he entertains me as a wrestler, and as a commentator. It's not a complex answer poring over every facet of the guy in dissertation form, but that's the reason.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2007 19:52:19 GMT -5
Confession: I even liked him as a wrestler. JBL is awesome. im with this man... i loved JBL wish he would wrestle again
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Post by willywonka666 on Nov 24, 2007 20:09:55 GMT -5
There's not an announcer out there that won't put over someone, that's there job whether they like it or not. Doesn't mean they actually mean it
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HRH The KING
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
HIS ROYAL HIGHNESS
Posts: 15,079
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Post by HRH The KING on Nov 24, 2007 20:21:52 GMT -5
JBL is one of the main reasons I no longer watch Smackdown.
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mo
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 16,988
Member is Online
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Post by mo on Nov 24, 2007 20:25:29 GMT -5
Confession: I even liked him as a wrestler. JBL is awesome. Same, been a fan since The APA days, his title run (as it was happening) was one of my favorite things in wrestling in recent times. I too also think he is great on commentary.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Nov 24, 2007 20:28:59 GMT -5
JBL sucks. He sucks as a commentator, and he was marginal as a wrestler. The only reason he spent so many months as WWE champion was because (quite litterally) they had nobody else. Bottom line. The problem is, since the WWE has been putting out a mediocre product for so long now, you guys don't even remember what good is supposed to be like. So, when a guy comes along, and he mildly amuses you, you herald him as the next great thing without batting an eyelid, and since you do that, the WWE has no choice but to continue pushing said mediocrity. They're only giving you what you want, afterall. Who can fault them? JBL will never be more than a soap-raping generic "veteran" who got lucky because there was nobody better at the time. The thing is, there are some really great commentators out there in places that the WWE won't look these days because they want to project a certain image before thier overall product gets developed. This is the same company that hires sitcom writers to script a two hour show because they either have no faith in their current wrestler's abilities to cut a promo for themselves, or the talent pool on their roster is so thin that they have no choice. This is the same company that should have taken the entire pro wrestling fanbase and capitalized on it once they bought ECW and WCW, but instead gave us the Invasion angle, that ultimately sucked and lost money and viewers instead of created more. This is the same company that gave you Katie Vick, Mae Young's hand, and exploited the death of Eddie Gurerro as legitimate efforts to keep you, the viewer, interested in the product. Honestly, you guys that claim to love JBL? Is it because you're so used to the product sucking so bad, or do you truly and genuinely like his commentary? Is he comparable to the likes of Bobby Heenan, or even Jerry Lawler (when he was good)? Or is it just because nothing better is on the horizon, and he's better than 90% of the crap they've tossed at you lately (which doesn't make him good)? If this is your first night at Fight Club...you have to fight.....
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General Zod
Samurai Cop
KNEEL!
KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!
Posts: 2,163
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Post by General Zod on Nov 24, 2007 20:40:38 GMT -5
Then I'll fight. But the numbers don't lie.
Ratings. Buyrates. Merchandise sales. Tickets. How was business 10 years ago, and how is business now? Compare JBL to guys who could *truly* influence a gate or a PPV? Even in as recent as 10 years ago!
The Rock. Stone Cold Steve Austin. Bret Hart. HHH. Ric Flair.
All of them far superior draws to JBL. And that's just skimming the surface.
As a commentator, is he better than Heenan, do you think? As a color guy, does he top someone like Jesse Ventura? Could he hold a candle next to Jerry Lawler circa 1994-5? Most assuredly not. And as far as calling the action, Tony Schivonie has him beat by a mile. Mere hyperbole and a somewhat consistent vocal timber does not a good commentator make.
I say unto ye again - JBL is a mere scrub. He's only good because he's good enough for now. And most of you don't know why that is because you continue feeding the mediocrity machine that seems to permiate this industry like a cloud of smog.
True, there is no accounting for taste. If you truly like what the guy has to offer the product, be my guest. But I would most assuredly suggest that encouraging this kind of mediocrity is exactly what's been slowly killing the industry for the last 6 and a half years.
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Mozenrath
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Speedy Speed Boy
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 24, 2007 20:42:10 GMT -5
JBL tops Ventura, to me at least. I think Ventura was bland.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Nov 24, 2007 20:43:46 GMT -5
Did anyone ever claim JBL had an influence on the ratings like those guys you mentioned or was even as good as those guys you mentioned? I think you're fighting an argument no one has presented.
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General Zod
Samurai Cop
KNEEL!
KNEEL BEFORE ZOD!!
Posts: 2,163
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Post by General Zod on Nov 24, 2007 20:49:01 GMT -5
Did anyone ever claim JBL had an influence on the ratings like those guys you mentioned or was even as good as those guys you mentioned? I think you're fighting an argument no one has presented. No, I'm stating my case that JBL, comparitively speaking, is mediocre, at best. I'm stating it as such because it's true. If JBL was as good as half the people here think he is, Smackdown! would be the number one show on television, period. What I don't understand is how his mediocrity can be heralded in the manner that it is, which in my opinion, only further hurts the overall product. If JBL is the best you can hope for, I'm not entirely optimistic about the state of affairs as a wrestling fan these days. As I stated, you can like him all you want. I'm not telling anyone not to like him. If you truly like him, then good for you. I'm simply calling into question whether people like him because he's truly that great, or is it because he's better than the crap you're used to being served?
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Nov 24, 2007 20:51:40 GMT -5
Did anyone ever claim JBL had an influence on the ratings like those guys you mentioned or was even as good as those guys you mentioned? I think you're fighting an argument no one has presented. No, I'm stating my case that JBL, comparitively speaking, is mediocre, at best. I'm stating it as such because it's true. If JBL was as good as half the people here think he is, Smackdown! would be the number one show on television, period. What I don't understand is how his mediocrity can be heralded in the manner that it is, which in my opinion, only further hurts the overall product. If JBL is the best you can hope for, I'm not entirely optimistic about the state of affairs as a wrestling fan these days. As I stated, you can like him all you want. I'm not telling anyone not to like him. If you truly like him, then good for you. I'm simply calling into question whether people like him because he's truly that great, or is it because he's better than the crap you're used to being served? How can you truly determine that, though? Some of us weren't alive for the time of Heenan/Ventura so how can someone tell you 'Well, JBL is good because he's slightly better than everyone else we get?' unless that's their view?
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Post by lockedontarget on Nov 24, 2007 21:29:52 GMT -5
Zod, ratings and sales don't always mean quality.
May I point you to Hulk Hogan, Britney Spears, Chingy, and Nickelback?
"Most popular" does not mean "the best"
Brian Danielson is a better wrestler than 99% of the WWE roster. Yet he doesn't draw the money that even a WWE midcarder does.
And you know what? I WOULD take JBL over Lawler or Ventura.
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Just Jay
Unicron
DIESEL!?!?!
Posts: 3,282
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Post by Just Jay on Nov 24, 2007 22:20:20 GMT -5
^ You should post here more often. I take into consideration, and those are somewhat valid points. But like the others have said, buyrates do not necessarily translate into quality. Eddie Guerrero was hugely popular, yet ratings and buyrates were lower than average. Are you telling me that Eddie Guerrero was mediocre? The same could be said about Chris Benoit, who was regarded as the best technical wrestler in the world at the time. That being said, JBL, while not as popular as Austin and The Rock (A completely different era all together as well,) is far from mediocre. Here was a midcarder who stepped up to the main event position, and in the honest opinion of many and myself, does a mighty damn good job. JBL is not mediocre, JBL is a WRESTLING GOD!!!
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Post by Hurbster on Nov 24, 2007 22:40:31 GMT -5
Blimey, I thought JBL was bloody awful during his title run. Heyman was dead right on that one ! Being so good on the mike he should have been a manager for someone good, not wrestling himself.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2007 22:44:53 GMT -5
Zod, ratings and sales don't always mean quality. May I point you to Hulk Hogan, Britney Spears, Chingy, and Nickelback? "Most popular" does not mean "the best" Brian Danielson is a better wrestler than 99% of the WWE roster. Yet he doesn't draw the money that even a WWE midcarder does. And you know what? I WOULD take JBL over Lawler or Ventura. i'll agree with that
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Post by Long A, Short A on Nov 24, 2007 23:38:13 GMT -5
I don't understand JBL's appeal and I don't think I want to. I can't run around with my pants around my ankles over the things he does either. JBL is a representative of almost everything I don't like about wrestling. I fully endorse Zod's statements about JBL in this thread.
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