Welfare Willis
Crow T. Robot
Pornomancer 555-BONE FDIC Bonsured
Game Center CX Kacho on!
Posts: 44,259
|
Post by Welfare Willis on Nov 27, 2007 12:23:42 GMT -5
Benjamin is the worst example. This guy, physically, could be one of the great performers. But he just can't seem to get any charisma going. You can not blame booking for someone that can not talk to a crowd. I kinda agree as I've heard in reports that Benjamin has some charisma and it's shown backstage to his peers, but when the lights are on, it just doesn't seem to translate well to TV. The Al Gore effect?
|
|
Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
|
Post by Joekishi on Nov 27, 2007 12:57:38 GMT -5
Because they don't seem like wrestler's. Plus, they're not booked very well. cody rhodes for being as generic as he is, is pretty over for what he's done. Santino is over because he gets the mic time to stay over. Umaga is always booked with the main eventers and he's got the matches to back up his spot. Surprisingly Jimmy Wang Yang is over, so are Jesse and Festus. I think the hardest part is the wrestlers themselves keeping themselves fresh and relevant. JYW stays over I think because his matches are always fast paced and exciting and he's not booked every smackdown so he's not saturated like Chuck Palumbo
|
|
"Magic" Mark Hurr
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Here, have some chili dogs
Now featuring half the brain that you do.
Posts: 16,546
|
Post by "Magic" Mark Hurr on Nov 27, 2007 13:35:55 GMT -5
Because they don't seem like wrestler's. Plus, they're not booked very well. cody rhodes for being as generic as he is, is pretty over for what he's done. Santino is over because he gets the mic time to stay over. Umaga is always booked with the main eventers and he's got the matches to back up his spot. Surprisingly Jimmy Wang Yang is over, so are Jesse and Festus. I think the hardest part is the wrestlers themselves keeping themselves fresh and relevant. JYW stays over I think because his matches are always fast paced and exciting and he's not booked every smackdown so he's not saturated like Chuck Palumbo Plus...He's smurfing Chuck Palumbo. But I have to agree with the new guys not being seasoned and the fact that they have been restricted in a way with findin their own identity within the business. Pretty much everything said in this thread holds weight to the problem. But their have been some wrestlers that have made a name for themselves earlier on in their careers. Plus I think that the lack of major competition and climate of wrestling has changed they way things were done. WWE has the time to put on guys that may not translate that well on TV right now , but they have the breathing room to do so. Hence why we saw the Palumbo v Dyskstra feud which I would trade for having Colt Cabana in a heart beat. When back in the day guy with Colt's talent would have been put on the screen a lot sooner. But they replaced Dykstra with Noble and that alone makes Palumbo tolerable to some extent. Edit: If only they would call Chuck "Chuckie" and have his theme be "Why you wanna play your games on me" by Chuckie Booker while stile having the biker gimmick theeeeeeeeeeeen I'd fully endorse Palumbo.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,939
|
Post by Mozenrath on Nov 27, 2007 13:37:23 GMT -5
I do like how Cody is taking his time, working his way up, and getting better every week.
|
|
Tapout
Hank Scorpio
WWE Creative(TM)
W.W.W.Y.K.I.
Posts: 6,919
|
Post by Tapout on Nov 27, 2007 13:47:17 GMT -5
Said it before, I'll say it again.
It's because the company doesn't know how to manage promising talent other than to give a gigantic push and hope to God the newcomer catches fire and becomes a huge draw. See: Shelton, Carlito, Santino, etc.
If they become any less than a huge success, they are usually buried.
Cena and Orton are probably the last guys to benefit from a long, slow-burn buildup. Also, now that Evolution is out of the picture and stables are basically gone, there's no Horsemen-like stable to build up heels.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,939
|
Post by Mozenrath on Nov 27, 2007 13:48:52 GMT -5
Said it before, I'll say it again. It's because the company doesn't know how to manage promising talent other than to give a gigantic push and hope to God the newcomer catches fire and becomes a huge draw. See: Shelton, Carlito, Santino, etc. If they become any less than a huge success, they are usually buried. Cena and Orton are probably the last guys to benefit from a long, slow-burn buildup. Also, now that Evolution is out of the picture and stables are basically gone, there's no Horsemen-like stable to build up heels. I can see that, but at the very least, Cody has managed to largely break that mold in that WWE seems to be taking their time with him and letting him get ready. CM Punk was handled well by them, too, along with MVP.
|
|
The F'N Captain
King Koopa
I was captain **** till Captain America Beat the crap out of me and left me in a dumpster
Posts: 10,929
|
Post by The F'N Captain on Nov 27, 2007 15:27:39 GMT -5
I think it doesn't help that we keep getting "cookie cutter" good looking athletic types so often. They have nothing going for them except they all seem to like tattoo's and go to the same barber.
Shake it up some, hell you made Burchill a pirate.
|
|
Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
|
Post by Joekishi on Nov 27, 2007 15:33:18 GMT -5
I really think it's time Elijah brings back the New Breed, heck even with new Non-vampire Thorne.
just Thorne, Shelton, and Burke. And that's the new breed.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 27, 2007 15:42:51 GMT -5
Young guys, IMO, have problems getting over because they are given so little to work with. Take Jimmy Wang Yang for example. Because of his style of wrestling, he seems to be over to an extent. The problem is, how over can he get if he: A. doesn't win a lot of matches/ have meaningful feuds and B. doesn't have any meaningful promos, mic time, skits, etc. It's been, what a year, two years, since he's redebutted with the Redneck gimmick and what has he done? What funny skits has he been in and what cool things has he been given to do?
There is absolutely no excuse for Yang not to do things like coming out in a pick-up truck, interacting with his redneck Asian family, hog-tying people, hanging out with J.R., branding people with like an ink brand, getting a Daisy Duke chick, etc. But he doesn't do that stuff and, consequently, can't get anywhere with his gimmick.
Pirate Paul Birchill could've been big but they did jack in the way of promos with him. Wang's misused the same way; why put people in ridiculous gimmicks if you aren't also putting them in kooky things that might actually lend dimensions to their character?
In the old days, if you wanted to show The Million Dollar Man as this greedy, rich guy who loves to use his money to degrade people, you'd have him offer money for people to kiss his feet and do underhanding things like the basketball bouncing. Mr. Perfect would have these great promos showing him do all these awesome athletic feats; Jake had these amazing interviews where he'd riff in character for a couple of minutes. I'm not asking them to attain the same level, but why can't Yang have a skit for a minute or two where he hog ties someone? Where's C.M. Punk and his heartfelt promos about staying sober? If Shelton is the best athlete around, why aren't we seeing him school over guys in basketball or football, or whatever?
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,939
|
Post by Mozenrath on Nov 27, 2007 16:01:02 GMT -5
I think it doesn't help that we keep getting "cookie cutter" good looking athletic types so often. They have nothing going for them except they all seem to like tattoo's and go to the same barber. Shake it up some, hell you made Burchill a pirate. And it WORKED. People loved Burchill.
|
|
krzykraka
Don Corleone
The man who will break FLAIR'S 16x Record
Posts: 1,732
|
Post by krzykraka on Nov 27, 2007 16:06:51 GMT -5
I think its because the wwe is constantley looking for the glory days again of the attitude era rather then looking in the future. Whenever they have a young star and he doesnt instantly get over or work out instantly,they give up on him too soon and go back relying on guys like HBK and Taker. I like the older guys but think they are called upon too often to save the day when the younger guys slip up for a second. I guess it all goes back to booking.
|
|
Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
|
Post by Hiroshi Hase on Nov 27, 2007 16:34:13 GMT -5
I think it doesn't help that we keep getting "cookie cutter" good looking athletic types so often. They have nothing going for them except they all seem to like tattoo's and go to the same barber. Shake it up some, hell you made Burchill a pirate. And it WORKED. People loved Burchill. It didn't work that much, I remember seeing some of his matches with Regal and the crowd was dead throughout. I know some people on here worship the guy, but he's not that good,IMO.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,939
|
Post by Mozenrath on Nov 27, 2007 17:30:21 GMT -5
And it WORKED. People loved Burchill. It didn't work that much, I remember seeing some of his matches with Regal and the crowd was dead throughout. I know some people on here worship the guy, but he's not that good,IMO. I guess "loved" was a bit much, but it helped him stand out.
|
|
|
Post by Galluchadore on Nov 27, 2007 17:47:25 GMT -5
i think the reason why CM Punk is doing so well for himself compared to most of the other young talent is simply the guy was ready for the WWE. There are so many guys who start at small indy feds and get signed after a year or two and sent to OVW. By the time these guys are put on WWE television they have maybe 3 years experience and never given the chance to truly find themselves. CM Punk is only 28 years old but has been wrestling for about 10 years. He has travelled to Japan and Europe gotten experience there, wrestled in the top indy fed ROH and took on some of the best pure wrestlers in the world. He has traveled with legends and learned the business the right way. He drove the long hours listening to veterans picking their brains and wrestling more seasoned guys. Most of these new guys only know OVW and the wwe and that is truly a problem. With the exception of the Rock there really hasn't been any huge WWE star that came from virtually nowhere. You could say Kurt Angle but he is an exception to the rule coming from the olympics. Go down the list Foley, Austin, Undertaker, HHH, HBK they have all came up the hard way, wrestling in front of small towns, traveling the world, wrestling all different types of wrestlers, getting better each week , and unlike most of the current guys a chance to develop a persona that works for them.
|
|
|
Post by wolfmoon103100 on Nov 27, 2007 17:51:59 GMT -5
To me they are starting to look the same..
|
|
|
Post by kitsunestar on Nov 27, 2007 17:56:14 GMT -5
CM Punk is only 28 years old but has been wrestling for about 10 years. Only 28? In Wrestling terms, these days, 28 is pretty old. WWE likes to be able to push young kids down our throat like Masters and Kenny Dykstra in hopes of them catching fire quick enough to make them the "Youngest Champion Ever" and hope to God that they've got a better attitude than the previous one (Orton, and before him, Lesnar) did. With it typically being 18-22 year olds being a big part of RoH, 28 isn't young in the world of wrestling, and once you start working WWE's schedule, the days of being able to wrestle into your 50s like Hogan and Flair (and soon Sting) are probably at an end. Though, it has surprised me that WWE is pushing people in that 28-35 range into bigger spots, lately... (Punk, MVP, Jeff Hardy).
|
|
|
Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on Nov 27, 2007 17:57:27 GMT -5
I think that the territories argument is rather sound.
I got to thinking that perhaps WWE can consider obtaining some more developmental territories to simulate the old days.
No territory needs to be "the starting territory." New wrestlers just start in a designated area and they make the rounds over the years.
There could be wrestlers who have been at it for a few years mixed with brand new recruits in every developmental territory, you know, kind of like the old days.
The idea would be that no wrestler could ascend to Raw/Smackdown/ECW until they have proven themselves to be a noteworthy draw in every developmental territory.
|
|
|
Post by sexualvanilla on Nov 27, 2007 18:04:54 GMT -5
I think its because the wwe is constantley looking for the glory days again of the attitude era rather then looking in the future. Whenever they have a young star and he doesnt instantly get over or work out instantly,they give up on him too soon and go back relying on guys like HBK and Taker. I like the older guys but think they are called upon too often to save the day when the younger guys slip up for a second. I guess it all goes back to booking. That's true. In a way, it seems like the last few years have been a long search for the next Rock, and if you don't instantly reach that level, they shuffle you back down again. But you can't capture lightning in a bottle like that again, so it's been a long nostalgic trip
|
|
|
Post by Arturo Classico on Nov 27, 2007 18:26:13 GMT -5
The problem is they have to write for three have to write for three shows and have too many people that fill the same role and the writing staff is horrible on all three shows.
Honestly they need to gut the alot of the roster (I'd only keep Cena, Jericho, HHH, Kennedy, HBK, Flair, Hardys, Punk, Burke, Thorn, Morrison, Miz, Cade and Murdoch, Mickie james, Beth Phoenix, Victoria, Jillian Hall, MVP, Batista) and I'd hire a new writing staff who is more in touch to what the majority of people like and not be so scared to offend people, thats not what attracted people to WWE in the mid to late ninties. Oh and write for one show, Russo said this perfectly in his WCR interview that writting two 2 hour shows is too much
|
|