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Post by saggyboyflair on Nov 27, 2007 0:40:46 GMT -5
today? Is it because the wrestling business isnt as popular today in the mainstream as it was in the 80's or late 90s? Or is is it the way they are being booked or the lack of competition?
What are your thoughts on why this is?
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
Posts: 42,361
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Nov 27, 2007 0:41:39 GMT -5
Because they don't seem like wrestler's. Plus, they're not booked very well.
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wwerules60
El Dandy
"Bring what? a vomit bag? a fig newton?"
Posts: 8,999
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Post by wwerules60 on Nov 27, 2007 0:44:14 GMT -5
Because WWE does not have faith in them and writes all their promos(if they ever have any) and gives them bad gimmicks. They also do this weird thing where they push them really hard and then just seem to forget about them.
But tot be fair, in the past couple of years we have seen the rise of Cena, Orton, Kennedy, MVP, and more up and comers.
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Post by Jason Todd Grisham on Nov 27, 2007 0:45:11 GMT -5
Because they're so young. Look at how long it took HHH, Jericho, or Foley to make it. Then look at Chris Masters or Heidenrich.
They're being pushed into the national scene unseasoned.
That and the booking.
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Post by bubbles on Nov 27, 2007 0:45:35 GMT -5
Also they used to get guys who'd been in the territories for ages so they were already quite over and had lots of experience
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Post by twiggy101 on Nov 27, 2007 0:48:46 GMT -5
I hate how they would bring in a guy in his early 20s and make him into a cocky heel and saying that he is the future but become jobbers or something. Survival of the fittest, I guess.
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Post by sexualvanilla on Nov 27, 2007 1:06:05 GMT -5
Like Foley'd always say, you can't teach experience. Guys are getting pushed earlier and earlier but they don't have the experience to handle it or make the most of the pushes they're getting. The booking isn't helping but you also gotta consider that for the most part, a lot of guys they sign are only getting experience in OVW. That won't prepare you for the big time but the big stars they've had in the past were usually veterans of the territories
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Post by KingPopper on Nov 27, 2007 1:09:17 GMT -5
During the attitude days everyone had some sort of role in the show, now half the roster is just kinda there.
Chucky P is back WTF???
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Post by Dick Foley on Nov 27, 2007 5:13:46 GMT -5
I think the young Divas are over though. Lets hope that trend continues.
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Post by willywonka666 on Nov 27, 2007 7:29:44 GMT -5
I don't think they're being booked properly, and they have to follow the script too damn much. There's no room for improvising, and where would Roddy Piper and Steve Austin be if they couldn't improvise? They wouldn't be in that last sentence I wrote, I'll tell you that.
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Grotto
Trap-Jaw
It's a rooster, and a cock.
Posts: 433 
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Post by Grotto on Nov 27, 2007 8:36:53 GMT -5
Roddy Piper and Steve Austin were not good out of the gate. They both spent years honing their craft before they "made it". Young guys have their promos scripted partly because they do not have the concepts necessary to get over...yet. That is not to say that eventually they will not be scripted, though.
Whoever said it is the lack of territories and experience hit it on the head, I think. With few exceptions it takes young guys quite a while to get the experience and confidence to bond with a crowd.
It is not the young guys' fault...and it isn't the WWE's fault. It is just the way of the world right now. There is a stark lack of good young talent. Personally I think things are on the upswing.
And naturally...these are just my opinions...
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Post by OldGravyLeg on Nov 27, 2007 8:38:55 GMT -5
I think the booking has something to do with it, but in general, the simple fact is that these kids (and that's what they are) are being brought up to the main roster way before they're ready. Unfortunately, there's not a whole lot that can be done about that...
Consider this, back in the day, when the territory system was still around and there was no Internet, whenever a wrestler showed up in a new promotion, nobody knew who he was. He was required to get the fans acclimated to him from scratch. Then, after a while, he would move on to another new promotion and have to get himself noticed all over again. This would occur numerous times before a guy was "discovered" by one of the big boys. He would have the opportunity to work lots of different angles and in front of vastly different crowds. In other words, he was honing his skills. By the time he gets to WWF or WCW, he's for all intensive purposes, a master of his craft.
The kids that are brought up to the main roster today get their 1-2 years training in front of the same crowd every night in OVW or whatever and that's it. They know how to do individual wrestling moves and, to some extent, put together a complete match, but for the most part, they're dependent on agents, writers and the office to build their persona for them.
A truly great wrestler only becomes such if he's able to bring a character out from inside himself. The way the business works today, most young guys never get the opportunity to nurture that inner character. They never learn to truly get their heart into what they're doing. In a lot of ways, it's like shooting a commercial... You say your lines, do what the director tells you to do, and that's it. That's not wrestling, that's crappy television.
I hope someday things will change, but I'm not too hopeful. Most people blame Vince for the fall of the territory system, but I think the Internet and globalization in general would have done that eventually anyway.
Anyway, that's all I've got...
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Post by molson5 on Nov 27, 2007 8:51:33 GMT -5
Everybody the WWF brought in in the 80s had been a main eventer or close to it somewhere else, on TV, a part of major angles, and winning championships. JYD, Piper, Savage, Valentine, Hogan, Bundy, etc.
You can't expect the same thing from being in OVW for 8 months and then in backyards before that.
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Post by Kenny Brockelstein on Nov 27, 2007 8:54:38 GMT -5
Roddy Piper and Steve Austin were not good out of the gate. They both spent years honing their craft before they "made it". Young guys have their promos scripted partly because they do not have the concepts necessary to get over...yet. That is not to say that eventually they will not be scripted, though. Whoever said it is the lack of territories and experience hit it on the head, I think. With few exceptions it takes young guys quite a while to get the experience and confidence to bond with a crowd. It is not the young guys' fault...and it isn't the WWE's fault. It is just the way of the world right now. There is a stark lack of good young talent. Personally I think things are on the upswing. And naturally...these are just my opinions... I agree with you completely, aside from the fact that I feel there is blame to be attributed to WWE in this situation. They are pushing these guys years before they should even be on national TV, let alone being pushed. They should be kept under contract (if that is even neccessary) and sent on tours of Europe, loaned out to companies in Mexico and Japan, and be given FAR longer to hone their craft before they are put on TV. WWE could do far more, IMO. |
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Grotto
Trap-Jaw
It's a rooster, and a cock.
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Post by Grotto on Nov 27, 2007 9:02:31 GMT -5
I am not sure what else the WWE can do at this point. They have the training place. Other than that...they are looking at no veteran depth, too many injuries lately to the guys that can really go, etc. But...what makes me hopeful are the younger guys that have stepped up recently with the bigger injuries. Kennedy is coming around, Jeff and Matt Hardy were/are making some noise...and, of course, Randy Orton has become IMO a very good heel.
Yeah...it was Vince McMahon that brought down the territories. But you know what? If it was not Vince it would have been someone else. Think about what was really booming about the time that Vince started taking over. CABLE TV. For the first time ever you had many, many channels that were available all of the country. So eventually instead of having the territories on your local affiliates you had the ability to get a national deal. There would not have been room for all territories to get that sweet deal.
As it turns out...only three territories were able to survive with even somewhat limited national deals...and they became the WWF, NWA/WCW, and the AWA for a short while.
So blame Vince if you like. But you have to admit that if Vince had not come along, it would just be another name to curse...because someone would have taken over.
Again...just my opinion.
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Post by Baixo Astral on Nov 27, 2007 9:06:17 GMT -5
Pushed too soon... given bland gimmicks... restricted in their movesets... given lame promos... intermittently pushed and then depushed...
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Grotto
Trap-Jaw
It's a rooster, and a cock.
Posts: 433
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Post by Grotto on Nov 27, 2007 9:11:21 GMT -5
Pushed too soon... given bland gimmicks... restricted in their movesets... given lame promos... intermittently pushed and then depushed... I am respectfully asking this... ...why are people so quick to say that it is the company's fault? What else can they do? Their rosters were already thin with good talent. Then they have some big injuries, and three shows to fill. You might just as easily say that some younger guys are not stepping up. How about Masters, Carlito, Haas, Shelton? These guys had been around long enough to at least have a clue...and if you watch most of them they sometimes don't even seem to care. Benjamin is the worst example. This guy, physically, could be one of the great performers. But he just can't seem to get any charisma going. You can not blame booking for someone that can not talk to a crowd. Again...not stirring the pot. I am just asking a question. Do you really think it is the company's fault? |
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Nov 27, 2007 11:17:15 GMT -5
Pushed too soon... given bland gimmicks... restricted in their movesets... given lame promos... intermittently pushed and then depushed... Benjamin is the worst example. This guy, physically, could be one of the great performers. But he just can't seem to get any charisma going. You can not blame booking for someone that can not talk to a crowd. I kinda agree as I've heard in reports that Benjamin has some charisma and it's shown backstage to his peers, but when the lights are on, it just doesn't seem to translate well to TV. |
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Post by BD Punk AKA SUSPENDED! on Nov 27, 2007 11:53:15 GMT -5
Not enough promos or squash matches.
If you want a blue print on how to push a young unestablished wrestler with the fans, look at CM Punk. He had a few weeks of promos, and then many months of squash matches to establish him with the WWE fans. Now look at him.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Nov 27, 2007 12:07:51 GMT -5
Pushed too soon... given bland gimmicks... restricted in their movesets... given lame promos... intermittently pushed and then depushed... I am respectfully asking this... ...why are people so quick to say that it is the company's fault? What else can they do? Their rosters were already thin with good talent. Then they have some big injuries, and three shows to fill. You might just as easily say that some younger guys are not stepping up. How about Masters, Carlito, Haas, Shelton? These guys had been around long enough to at least have a clue...and if you watch most of them they sometimes don't even seem to care. Benjamin is the worst example. This guy, physically, could be one of the great performers. But he just can't seem to get any charisma going. You can not blame booking for someone that can not talk to a crowd. Again...not stirring the pot. I am just asking a question. Do you really think it is the company's fault? Yeah. WWE really ought to be looking elsewhere for talent. That, and they need to learn patience as far as picking the right people to put on television, as they seem to think they'll learn there. Doesn't work that way. I would love to see how Kenny Dykstra turns out 5 years from now. |
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