|
Post by amsiraK on Dec 9, 2007 10:56:07 GMT -5
It was a little late by then, wasn't it? The "sexy boy" thing was well ingrained and hard to shake when they really weren't changing very much about the character. It wasn't like he was suddenly a completely different person.
I think it was very hard to change everyone's mind after having the audience hate him so very much.
Plus, as he's said himself, he was a bit of an ass and that did show at times.
|
|
|
Post by skillz on Dec 9, 2007 10:56:19 GMT -5
Perhaps, then again the whole stripper act he'd do after his matches didn't exactly get males thinking he was straight, especially after Royal Rumble 96. I know I'd have to either turn off the TV or change the channel when that was on as I can't see any straight male going "ALRIGHT SHAWN TAKE IT OFF!!!". Well, there was that, too. It was also designed to piss guys off. Not because he was 'gay', but because he was a heel and 'loads sexier than any of you, so I'm gonna rub it in your face.' And that was supposed to make him over as a babyface.....? Honestly, I don't see how pretending to pull his trunks down to expose his crotch was supposed to endear himself to the crowd (and yes, that was his actual post-match celebration as a face......and people wonder why business went in the crapter back then...).
|
|
|
Post by amsiraK on Dec 9, 2007 11:01:21 GMT -5
Sometimes, I don't think Vince really cares about what we think. And by "sometimes", I mean "most of the time". I've always thought that making Shawn a face came at a price - he was always an arrogant character that rankled people. Making him that sexy was always bound to piss people off. To make him like that and a face was always odd to me, and I'm one of his target audience for that.
I'm having a brain fart - was there ever a crazy-over face who was sexy? And I mean overtly, as it was a huge part of his character. I can't think of any, but I don't want to say 'none' in case I'm missing one.
|
|
Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
|
Post by Hiroshi Hase on Dec 9, 2007 11:05:20 GMT -5
Sometimes, I don't think Vince really cares about what we think. And by "sometimes", I mean "most of the time". I've always thought that making Shawn a face came at a price - he was always an arrogant character that rankled people. Making him that sexy was always bound to piss people off. To make him like that and a face was always odd to me, and I'm one of his target audience for that. I'm having a brain fart - was there ever a crazy-over face who was sexy? And I mean overtly, as it was a huge part of his character. I can't think of any, but I don't want to say 'none' in case I'm missing one. Sometimes he doesn't and sometimes he does. But having these tribute videos for him in 95, and doing the whole "Boyhood dream" deal in the weeks leading to Wrestlemania 12 made me think he wanted people to see Shawn as someone who could lead the company. And I don't think there was ever a character who's gimmick that he was sexy, and super over at the same time. And the whole "I have to go find my smile" interview didn't help matters either. He's much better suited to being a heel.
|
|
|
Post by skillz on Dec 9, 2007 11:14:17 GMT -5
Sometimes, I don't think Vince really cares about what we think. And by "sometimes", I mean "most of the time". I've always thought that making Shawn a face came at a price - he was always an arrogant character that rankled people. Making him that sexy was always bound to piss people off. To make him like that and a face was always odd to me, and I'm one of his target audience for that. I'm having a brain fart - was there ever a crazy-over face who was sexy? And I mean overtly, as it was a huge part of his character. I can't think of any, but I don't want to say 'none' in case I'm missing one. If they were using Shawn to increase female viewership, then that's understandable. But if they planned on centering the company around him (which they did), it really made very little sense to continue the character in a way that would ONLY appeal to women. People bash John Cena, but it appears his target is women and KIDS. That at least makes some sense. I haven't watched the WWE in three years, but I can't imagine Cena is thrusting his crotch and pulling his pants down after he wins matches (if I'm wrong...please don't provide a link!). Shawn's character and push will always baffle me. It's one of life's mysteries.
|
|
|
Post by Hulk With A Mustache on Dec 9, 2007 11:15:28 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by amsiraK on Dec 9, 2007 11:26:01 GMT -5
Sometimes, I don't think Vince really cares about what we think. And by "sometimes", I mean "most of the time". I've always thought that making Shawn a face came at a price - he was always an arrogant character that rankled people. Making him that sexy was always bound to piss people off. To make him like that and a face was always odd to me, and I'm one of his target audience for that. I'm having a brain fart - was there ever a crazy-over face who was sexy? And I mean overtly, as it was a huge part of his character. I can't think of any, but I don't want to say 'none' in case I'm missing one. If they were using Shawn to increase female viewership, then that's understandable. But if they planned on centering the company around him (which they did), it really made very little sense to continue the character in a way that would ONLY appeal to women. People bash John Cena, but it appears his target is women and KIDS. That at least makes some sense. I haven't watched the WWE in three years, but I can't imagine Cena is thrusting his crotch and pulling his pants down after he wins matches (if I'm wrong...please don't provide a link!). Shawn's character and push will always baffle me. It's one of life's mysteries. I never said it made sense. LOL. That's Vince for you. You know what it takes to change his mind. If he wants a character one way, it takes a force of nature to get him to think otherwise. There was very little change to HBK's character when they flipped him, not unlike Randy Orton's face turn. As they're targeting Cena to kids, probably not. They'll beat that into the ground for years to come.
|
|
|
Post by Loki on Dec 9, 2007 11:29:21 GMT -5
Trying to find some logic in HBK being the top babyface of the company with his cocky, borderline-gay, male stripper gimmick is a lost cause.
He was over, despite being obnoxious inside and outside the ring. Why? Charisma.
Was Steve Austin supposed to get cheered like there was no tomorrow? I don't think so, but it happened anyway...
|
|
Jack
Team Rocket
Posts: 903
|
Post by Jack on Dec 9, 2007 12:11:27 GMT -5
I don't see why there would be a problem with a wrestler being aimed specifically at a female/gay male audience. Afterall that is ALL the Diva's are for, to provide thrills for the male demographic. They could come out in a wheelchair dribbling and the effect would still be the same, they're there because of what they look like.
No obviously HBK has talent but he was also a very good looking guy, it's just something that he happened to have and WWE played up to it. If someone has sex appeal, flaunt it and use it for all it's worth regardless of gender. Sex sells afterall.
|
|
|
Post by derrtaysouth95 on Dec 9, 2007 12:21:48 GMT -5
before I read this post, I had never thought of HBK as anything but straight.
and I'm still not convinced of anything otherwise. He was a guy that had good looks, he can't help that fact. I think his whole gimmick was to piss off the male audience anyway so he wasn't being "gay" or "bi" just an obnoxious asshole.
|
|
Jack
Team Rocket
Posts: 903
|
Post by Jack on Dec 9, 2007 12:24:53 GMT -5
Vince doesn't have the balls to create a gay character and push him as a serious wrestler and in the main event. Although it would perhaps be the biggest challenge that a wrestling promoter could face given the frankly neanderthal mind set of likely the vast majority of wrestling fans.
|
|
|
Post by Ridley on Dec 9, 2007 12:34:00 GMT -5
Sometimes, I don't think Vince really cares about what we think. And by "sometimes", I mean "most of the time". I've always thought that making Shawn a face came at a price - he was always an arrogant character that rankled people. Making him that sexy was always bound to piss people off. To make him like that and a face was always odd to me, and I'm one of his target audience for that. I'm having a brain fart - was there ever a crazy-over face who was sexy? And I mean overtly, as it was a huge part of his character. I can't think of any, but I don't want to say 'none' in case I'm missing one. If they were using Shawn to increase female viewership, then that's understandable. But if they planned on centering the company around him (which they did), it really made very little sense to continue the character in a way that would ONLY appeal to women. People bash John Cena, but it appears his target is women and KIDS. That at least makes some sense. I haven't watched the WWE in three years, but I can't imagine Cena is thrusting his crotch and pulling his pants down after he wins matches (if I'm wrong...please don't provide a link!). Shawn's character and push will always baffle me. It's one of life's mysteries. Three years? Was that before Cena's stint of bringing every promo back around to male genitalia?
|
|
|
Post by amsiraK on Dec 9, 2007 12:34:38 GMT -5
Vince doesn't have the balls to create a gay character and push him as a serious wrestler and in the main event. Although it would perhaps be the biggest challenge that a wrestling promoter could face given the frankly neanderthal mind set of likely the vast majority of wrestling fans. No he really doesn't. They're all Golddust. Sometimes it works, sometimes it don't. And part of the problem with the whole "marketing a sexy guy" thing is that women aren't supposed to be wrestling fans. All or most of the overtly sexy guys (Rick Rude, HBK at first, etc...) have been heels because they're supposed to push the "your women want me and you suck, you wimpy jerk" schtick to get themselves heat. But prior to HBK, I can't think of too many that were actually... um... sexy. Rick Rude was a marketing guy's idea of what women think is sexy - washboard abs, Magnum PI mustache, long and wavy mullet, lots of hip swiveling. That has to do with the fact that the female fanbase was never terribly large. It's not ginormous now, but it's bigger than it used to be. And that's even without sexy guys to look at. (Cena? No thank you.) Which brings me to my perennial "Vince doesn't think very highly of any of us" argument. LOL
|
|
|
Post by Harvey on Dec 9, 2007 12:52:08 GMT -5
I am straight and personally I found HBK's antics in 96 and 97 to be quite humorous. When you still have internet smarks mad about it to this day, you did something right.
|
|
|
Post by phenomphan on Dec 9, 2007 13:00:35 GMT -5
I thought he may have had a little sugar in his tank. But I didn't really care, he was still hot to me.
|
|
|
Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Dec 9, 2007 13:08:08 GMT -5
I'm absolutely stunned by people who say HBK's push baffles/baffled them. He has undeniable charisma, he can work the ring, he is over, he can make people absolutely hate him or blow the roof off for him.
BTW, does anyone else mark when they watch old vids of HBK with Vince on commentary going absolutely crazy for him. 'HERE HE IS LADIES AND GENTLEMAN! SHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAN MICHEAAAAAAALS!' I think it's brilliant.
|
|
Haulk
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,298
|
Post by Haulk on Dec 9, 2007 13:15:56 GMT -5
2007 Shawns dancing around with a cowboy hat is undeniably village peopleesque
|
|
Erik Majorwitz
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
I don't have a PS3.
Longest Crapper- Laying it across the table
Posts: 18,051
|
Post by Erik Majorwitz on Dec 9, 2007 13:31:43 GMT -5
Um, I'm still a man?
|
|
|
Post by skillz on Dec 9, 2007 13:36:24 GMT -5
If they were using Shawn to increase female viewership, then that's understandable. But if they planned on centering the company around him (which they did), it really made very little sense to continue the character in a way that would ONLY appeal to women. People bash John Cena, but it appears his target is women and KIDS. That at least makes some sense. I haven't watched the WWE in three years, but I can't imagine Cena is thrusting his crotch and pulling his pants down after he wins matches (if I'm wrong...please don't provide a link!). Shawn's character and push will always baffle me. It's one of life's mysteries. Three years? Was that before Cena's stint of bringing every promo back around to male genitalia? Honestly, I missed nearly all of Cena's "breakout" as a character, as I stopped watching the WWE in 2004 and hadn't watched Smackdown since about 2002-03. He seems geared towards kids based on some of the stuff I've seen written about him, and unfortunately, poop humor is probably kid friendly these days (which is one of the many reasons why I hate society). I could be wrong, of course. My point was, Cena isn't geared to one relatively small demographic. Shawn basically was.
|
|
Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
|
Post by Lancers on Dec 9, 2007 14:10:58 GMT -5
I definitely thought Shawn may have been gay or bisexual in the 90s. Especially after the Playgirl photoshoot. At the time, that was pretty eyebrow raising.
I also noticed that HBK and Vince seemed very comfortable around each other too back then. It was probably all for show, but that also was something I noticed too.
|
|