Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,702
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Post by Square on Dec 9, 2007 11:01:56 GMT -5
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Post by phenomphan on Dec 9, 2007 12:35:32 GMT -5
I remember watching this. Taker seems like a laid back funny guy in person. Wish he'd do something like this today.
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Post by amsiraK on Dec 9, 2007 12:43:50 GMT -5
I wish they'd ALL do it like this. I don't see how this isn't the general operating procedure for public relations - be real but still promote the stuff.
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Post by phenomphan on Dec 9, 2007 12:56:32 GMT -5
I wish they'd ALL do it like this. I don't see how this isn't the general operating procedure for public relations - be real but still promote the stuff. Exactly...It wouldn't hurt anyone's character at this day in age. Everyone knows that these guys are somewhat like actors in a sense. They should just put them on these shows, talk about what their characters are, and promote the show. I think fans and non-fans alike would enjoy it instead of trying to shove kayfabe down people's throats. Unless you're 5 years old, it just won't work in today's world.
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Haulk
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,298
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Post by Haulk on Dec 9, 2007 13:16:56 GMT -5
Taker should have been all kayfabe and welcomed Jimmy to his purgatory.
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Post by TripleMerc on Dec 9, 2007 13:18:12 GMT -5
Well, he was Biker Taker at that point, so he had more room to just be a really nice face guy.
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BHB
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,778
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Post by BHB on Dec 9, 2007 13:43:15 GMT -5
Cool, nice find.
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Post by amsiraK on Dec 9, 2007 14:10:41 GMT -5
I wish they'd ALL do it like this. I don't see how this isn't the general operating procedure for public relations - be real but still promote the stuff. Exactly...It wouldn't hurt anyone's character at this day in age. Everyone knows that these guys are somewhat like actors in a sense. They should just put them on these shows, talk about what their characters are, and promote the show. I think fans and non-fans alike would enjoy it instead of trying to shove kayfabe down people's throats. Unless you're 5 years old, it just won't work in today's world. And if you're 5, you're not watching Jimmy Kimmel anyway. But yeah. It's time to call an end to out-of-the-ring kayfabe. We know it's acting with violence. THEY know it. It's time to just call a spade a spade and let them talk about it as if they're not ridiculous.
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Post by tarheelfan on Dec 9, 2007 17:10:19 GMT -5
I disagree because I think what makes pro wrestling work is to have some since of kayfabe. I think the problem today is that the concept of sports entertainment has really taken away the sense of what it was like for one to suspend disbelief. It is no secret that wrestling is fake and scripted. Everyone knows this. But what made heels, faces, gimmicks and stables and angles interesting was to somehow believe that maybe it was real. Maybe my view is different because I was also a fan during the waning days of kayfabe.
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Jam
Unicron
Spiral out
Posts: 2,934
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Post by Jam on Dec 9, 2007 17:14:56 GMT -5
One more reason The Undertaker is my favorite wrestler. He seems like such a cool dude.
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Post by romafan87 on Dec 9, 2007 18:07:39 GMT -5
Haha, this is actually really cool. Thanks for posting!
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Reverend BTY
Hank Scorpio
Christian Troy: God's Gift
Posts: 7,206
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Post by Reverend BTY on Dec 9, 2007 18:17:01 GMT -5
To be fair, as far as kayfabe and such, this was when Taker was the biker face 2002-2004. Now if it were the Deadman, I'd prefer he didn't do shows period. But if he had to, sacrifice Jimmy Kimmel to the devil.
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Post by They Adam Bradley on Dec 9, 2007 19:44:10 GMT -5
cousin sal pwnd the Taker..
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Post by machinegun on Dec 9, 2007 19:45:48 GMT -5
He would never be able to do that as Dead Taker
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Post by thesunbeast on Dec 9, 2007 21:43:52 GMT -5
I wish they'd ALL do it like this. I don't see how this isn't the general operating procedure for public relations - be real but still promote the stuff. Exactly...It wouldn't hurt anyone's character at this day in age. Everyone knows that these guys are somewhat like actors in a sense. They should just put them on these shows, talk about what their characters are, and promote the show. I think fans and non-fans alike would enjoy it instead of trying to shove kayfabe down people's throats. Unless you're 5 years old, it just won't work in today's world. Actually, It really WOULD hurt their charactors to some degree, even if we're older than 5 years old. See, in any form of Television entertainment, there is a deep psychological understanding that any great TV performer knows in any form of entertainment be it film, TV, or live acting especially. Pro wrestling takes this to an even higher degree than the others, as there is nothing else to compare it too. You have a mask, everyone thinks it's really your face. Then one day, someone finds out that it isn't a real face, and that it's just a mask. There are two ways to find this out. One, you'll find out because the guy takes the mask off, this is the most common. The other way, is that you show them that it's a mask, but you don't take it off. Even if everyone knows that you're wearing a mask, if you don't take it off, everyone will still recognize you for the mask and not your face, and if you don't show them your face, your mask will then become your face. In this scenerio, keeping the mask on IS NOT about trying to make people believe that it's really your face, it's about NOT showing them your real face, It's about not giving them something else, and therefor, will remember the mask.
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Post by phenomphan on Dec 9, 2007 21:51:06 GMT -5
Exactly...It wouldn't hurt anyone's character at this day in age. Everyone knows that these guys are somewhat like actors in a sense. They should just put them on these shows, talk about what their characters are, and promote the show. I think fans and non-fans alike would enjoy it instead of trying to shove kayfabe down people's throats. Unless you're 5 years old, it just won't work in today's world. Actually, It really WOULD hurt their charactors to some degree, even if we're older than 5 years old. See, in any form of Television entertainment, there is a deep psychological understanding that any great TV performer knows in any form of entertainment be it film, TV, or live acting especially. Pro wrestling takes this to an even higher degree than the others, as there is nothing else to compare it too. You have a mask, everyone thinks it's really your face. Then one day, someone finds out that it isn't a real face, and that it's just a mask. There are two ways to find this out. One, you'll find out because the guy takes the mask off, this is the most common. The other way, is that you show them that it's a mask, but you don't take it off. Even if everyone knows that you're wearing a mask, if you don't take it off, everyone will still recognize you for the mask and not your face, and if you don't show them your face, your mask will then become your face. In this scenerio, keeping the mask on IS NOT about trying to make people believe that it's really your face, it's about NOT showing them your real face, It's about not giving them something else, and therefor, will remember the mask. I understand where you're coming from, but I look at it like they're actors. I mean people watch movies all the time, but you don't see Johnny Depp going on a talk show as Captain JacK Sparrow or Edward Scissorshands, he goes on as Johnny Depp. I think wrestlers could do the same if given a chance.
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Post by thesunbeast on Dec 9, 2007 22:24:21 GMT -5
Actually, It really WOULD hurt their charactors to some degree, even if we're older than 5 years old. See, in any form of Television entertainment, there is a deep psychological understanding that any great TV performer knows in any form of entertainment be it film, TV, or live acting especially. Pro wrestling takes this to an even higher degree than the others, as there is nothing else to compare it too. You have a mask, everyone thinks it's really your face. Then one day, someone finds out that it isn't a real face, and that it's just a mask. There are two ways to find this out. One, you'll find out because the guy takes the mask off, this is the most common. The other way, is that you show them that it's a mask, but you don't take it off. Even if everyone knows that you're wearing a mask, if you don't take it off, everyone will still recognize you for the mask and not your face, and if you don't show them your face, your mask will then become your face. In this scenerio, keeping the mask on IS NOT about trying to make people believe that it's really your face, it's about NOT showing them your real face, It's about not giving them something else, and therefor, will remember the mask. I understand where you're coming from, but I look at it like they're actors. I mean people watch movies all the time, but you don't see Johnny Depp going on a talk show as Captain JacK Sparrow or Edward Scissorshands, he goes on as Johnny Depp. I think wrestlers could do the same if given a chance. Yes, but this is the reason as to why pro wrestling is a place that has to take this a step further than acting. More people know the name Johnny Depp than Captain Jack Sparrow. As a matter of fact, If you asked me who that was, I wouldn't know. The first time we saw Johnny depp, he was known as Johnny depp, and was credited as Johnny Depp. It's Johnny Depp playing this charactor, and Johnny Depp playing that charactor. It's really Johnny Depp thats the charactor. Pro wrestling compared to actors is more along the lines of John Wayne. I know that's not his real name, and I don't remember the names of the charactors he played in various movies. Pro wrestlers though, only play one role for a long time. An actor's role lasts two hours, a wrestler's role lasts two years. It would be like Al Bundy switching to Ed Oneil in the middle of an episode of Married With Children, you shouldn't do that,you have to wait untill it's over.
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andrewgilkison
Bubba Ho-Tep
Sound of 300lbs of crap hitting the fan?
Posts: 558
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Post by andrewgilkison on Dec 9, 2007 23:18:22 GMT -5
I understand where you're coming from, but I look at it like they're actors. I mean people watch movies all the time, but you don't see Johnny Depp going on a talk show as Captain JacK Sparrow or Edward Scissorshands, he goes on as Johnny Depp. I think wrestlers could do the same if given a chance. Yes, but this is the reason as to why pro wrestling is a place that has to take this a step further than acting. More people know the name Johnny Depp than Captain Jack Sparrow. As a matter of fact, If you asked me who that was, I wouldn't know. The first time we saw Johnny depp, he was known as Johnny depp, and was credited as Johnny Depp. It's Johnny Depp playing this charactor, and Johnny Depp playing that charactor. It's really Johnny Depp thats the charactor. Pro wrestling compared to actors is more along the lines of John Wayne. I know that's not his real name, and I don't remember the names of the charactors he played in various movies. Pro wrestlers though, only play one role for a long time. An actor's role lasts two hours, a wrestler's role lasts two years. It would be like Al Bundy switching to Ed Oneil in the middle of an episode of Married With Children, you shouldn't do that,you have to wait untill it's over. This doesn't make any sense at all. I would see your point if a wrestler "went out of character" during a wrestling promo and began saying "I don't really hate this guy, we are just acting". That would annoy me to no end. But "being in character" during a talkshow watched mostly by non-wrestling fans would be laughable. Especially in this day and age. When wrestling tried so hard to make everyone believe it was real in the past, it backfired when word got out that it was fake (when Vince had to say it was fake so that the State Alethtic Commissions couldn't tax it). It's one of the things non-wrestling fans use to make fun of it. "That crap is so fake", etc. And such a strict keeping of kayfabe is why that attitude is so common today. The genie is out of the bottle, dude. You can't put it back in.
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Post by thesunbeast on Dec 10, 2007 0:39:05 GMT -5
Yes, but this is the reason as to why pro wrestling is a place that has to take this a step further than acting. More people know the name Johnny Depp than Captain Jack Sparrow. As a matter of fact, If you asked me who that was, I wouldn't know. The first time we saw Johnny depp, he was known as Johnny depp, and was credited as Johnny Depp. It's Johnny Depp playing this charactor, and Johnny Depp playing that charactor. It's really Johnny Depp thats the charactor. Pro wrestling compared to actors is more along the lines of John Wayne. I know that's not his real name, and I don't remember the names of the charactors he played in various movies. Pro wrestlers though, only play one role for a long time. An actor's role lasts two hours, a wrestler's role lasts two years. It would be like Al Bundy switching to Ed Oneil in the middle of an episode of Married With Children, you shouldn't do that,you have to wait untill it's over. This doesn't make any sense at all. I would see your point if a wrestler "went out of character" during a wrestling promo and began saying "I don't really hate this guy, we are just acting". That would annoy me to no end. But "being in character" during a talkshow watched mostly by non-wrestling fans would be laughable. Especially in this day and age. When wrestling tried so hard to make everyone believe it was real in the past, it backfired when word got out that it was fake (when Vince had to say it was fake so that the State Alethtic Commissions couldn't tax it). It's one of the things non-wrestling fans use to make fun of it. "That crap is so fake", etc. And such a strict keeping of kayfabe is why that attitude is so common today. The genie is out of the bottle, dude. You can't put it back in. It makes perfect sense, dude, you just have to understand what I mean. I'm not saying that the type of kayfabe everyone refers to is still going on (but there are still other aspects of kayfabe that are still alive and well). The talkshow thing is an analogy, and it makes sense. So what If you're a WWE superstar that appears on a talk show that's watched by non wrestling fans, all the people in the world laughing at you dosen't mean a thing when you still have your fans that do pay to see you. It's not like those non-wrestling fans are actually stealing money out of the true fan's wallets. You NEVER catter to nonwrestling fans over the actual fans, and you nevet catter to so called "smart marks" over casual fans, and that seems to be what you're suggesting. If an "insulted fan" is turned off by something, then it's up to them to stop watching if they want to, it's not up too WWE to give up their hokeyness so the insulted fan is no longer insulted, and so that the superhero fans go away because their superhero just became human. WWE would loose their majority in favor of the minority, not good business. By the way, WWE wasn't trying to convince the audience that wrestling was real during the cartoon era just because all the wrestlers were in charactor 24/7. Before that, in the 70's, yes, but not the cartoon era. Everyone THINKS that WWE was trying to convince the audience that wrestling was real because they had guys like Undertaker show up on Regis and Kathy Lee, but that's not what they were doing. They were just trying to keep the charactor alive, not try to make you think that the man is really the charactor. If the Boogeyman showed up on Oprah and said "hey whats up yo, I'm Marty" The Boogeyman's on air charactor will suffer. You won't think of him anymore as the guy with the red face that eats worms, you'll think of him as Marty who portrays that charactor. Now, we've always known that It was just Marty portraying that charactor, but we don't THINK of Boogeyman as Marty (because he hasn't allowed us, we don't know Marty) We think of the charactor, because that's all we've been given to see. That's the point I'm making. It dosen't matter what we actually know of, there's a difference between what we know and what we know of. As a matter of fact, this is the very reason as to why we may hear about one particular thing that may have happenned backstage in WWE, and yet one wrestler will get all kinds of hate. It's because the fans who haven't meet the wrestler has a perception about him from what they've seen on TV, and they have the same perception of him when they hear what he said backstage, and they imagine it with the perception in mind. Now, before you go telling me how you're not a fan of Boogeyman anyway and that it dosen't matter, remember what I said about WWE not cattering to certain people. The Boogeyman is over (mabe a little down hill now) and the charactor matters to the ones he is over with. I think I've spoken enough about the boogeyman, but in this day and age, I think he's the only forward example I think people would recognize.
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Corporate H
Grimlock
He Buries Them Alive
Posts: 13,829
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Post by Corporate H on Dec 10, 2007 1:04:17 GMT -5
This was back during his "American Bad Ass" days, so no need for kayfabe.
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