nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 27, 2024 15:19:27 GMT -5
Who are the producers/road agents these days/
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 27, 2024 13:15:02 GMT -5
I've asked the mods about creating this thread but didn't receive an answer so, assuming here that qui tacit consentia, here goes.
Many of us are clearly jubilant that Vince McMahon, rightly, has been forced from his last remaining grip on WWE - with allegations that all but guarantee that he is never going to be able to appear in polite society again. Others might stfill be processing the news, however, with an eye to changes that will almost certainly be afoot throughout the industry in the near and long-term future.
We've largely discussed the impact Vince's departure is likely to have upon WWE itself - with the promise of a houseclearing that may well purge most, if not all personnel from the Vince-controlled era(s) from the company, if not the industry itself. But the events of the last 40ish hours have not only all but severed the connection between WWE and its fairground/gangster past, but also brought into focus some of the darker aspects of the business which have somewhat, but not completely, been pushed out in the years since the Benoit tragedy brought them to light. Illicit use of certain drugs seems to have diminished along with the worst abuses brought about from it, for example. Injuries, however, seem to be still healing up far faster that might be reasonable. The scope for promotions expanding in number and size as gatekeeper types like DeMott are shown the exits might be a short-term trend to come from this, particularly since AEW's ownership has come from outside the business and thus not tethered to the carniness of its larger competitors.
If I may, I'd like to get some discourse going here about what Vince's ouster has accomplished that could not be fully achieved beforehand; the ways in which the business may have already been moving on without Vince (particularly since, say, 2010; and what we might come to expect in the business in the years to come.
Mods, I leave it to you to decide where, if anywhere, this discussion might be best placed.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 27, 2024 11:00:48 GMT -5
This wasn't the outlaw promotion Angelo Poffo ran against the Memphis office?
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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AskaMod
Jan 27, 2024 10:55:43 GMT -5
Post by nisidhe on Jan 27, 2024 10:55:43 GMT -5
Can I open a thread, tangential to the Vince thread, about how things might proceed in the industry from the news that Vince has been forced to resign and is unlikely ever to return to power? And if so, should it go into the WWE section or the (W)rest of Wrestling section?
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 27, 2024 10:13:57 GMT -5
Okay so rather than just snarkily repost the same thing I’ve been posting, and putting aside my distrust of others in Vince’s circle like John Cena (who, when asked about the first round of Vince’s accusations, said “everyone makes mistakes, I still love the man”) or Kevin Dunn (who, well, come on), I’m going to ask some of you something. We have evidence, from both wrestler testimonies and his own evasiveness at press conferences, that Triple H has covered up for abusers much lower on the totem pole than Vince McMahon. Not once, but twice. That’s not even getting into his continued usage of Matt Riddle (until he became too much of a liability) and JD McDonagh which a separate but very similar can of worms. So my question is this: if he’s covered up abuse before, why would he not do so again? Endeavor: "You're on notice, Paul. If there's any more of this stuff going on among the employees or talent - _anyone_ in this organization - and we find out that you did or tried anything to cover it up, you're out of here. We're not kidding and this isn't some mudshow or whatever it is you wrestling people call it. This is a major corporation. You've been chosen to stay on your merits alone, Paul: you need to show us that keeping you is best for business on all sides."
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 27, 2024 3:49:44 GMT -5
Vince wouldn't have resigned unless a) he figured he'd have a way back in once everything blew over, or b) he was told to fall on his sword or be beheaded in a way from which he absolutely would never be able to come back.
Endeavor and the TKO side would never allow a TNA/Russo-style resolution because it would destroy them. You don't play games with the networks or with advertising partners. Vince may not have known this or cared, but Emanuel abso-frickin'-lutely does. Dollars to donuts, Netflix had an out clause on its deal with WWE and were prepared to exercise it if TKO didn't do _something_ about Vince.
Will there be a housecleaning/purge? Probably, but not to the extent one might think. Dunn's seen himself out; Laurinaitis is already long gone; Lesnar will probably be left to sit out his contract knowing it'll be his last with any reputable company and knowing any who would want him can't afford him (if he's not investigated and made to face consequences for what he's been accused of.) Prichard and some of the road agents (most notably Hayes if he's still there) might want to brush up their resumes or dust off their podcast studios. Heyman? I can see him reading the tea-leaves and opting to tell all, rather than face retirement in a wrestling environment that can very easily move on without him.
Trips and Michaels must know now that, if they're not purged, they've hit their respective ceilings within the company and, with Dwayne coming, that they are likely to be supplemented, if not outright replaced in time. A couple phone calls from Dwayne, perhaps (almost certainly) to Calgary and (possibly - not a bad idea) to Hawaii, might generate some fresh ideas in creative and perhaps put entirely to bed certain tropes in pro wrestling that have needed putting to bed for some time. I don't see Regal or Finlay getting purged at all; anyone not in power dynamics over the talent or in a position to influence them shouldn't suffer horribly for what they may have seen or known - put those folks through a good few workshops about sexual harassment, diversity and inclusion and generally "How Not To Be An Unsufferable Wanker Whose Legacy Turns to Ashes Under the Sunlight of Scrutiny".
In the end, though, pro wrestling is being dragged kicking and screaming from its carny past where a code of silence could hide some truly awful shit. Attention has moved from the abuses of the locker rooms to those of one particular boardroom and the office of the man who, until yesterday, also kept that code of silence enforced throughout the business. Let there be more light.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 26, 2024 18:50:20 GMT -5
It would be preferable for TKO/WWE _not_ to hold a presser at all, than to hold one where the questions are softball.
This really, _really_ is a time when it is crucial for public perception for the company to read the room.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 26, 2024 15:01:24 GMT -5
If Tony Khan wanted carte blanche to dump on WWE for all that's come out in the last 24 hours, Triple H's tweet just became that carte blanche.
If I ran TKO, Trips would not be in any PR-related role from here on out. No member of the McMahon family or of their regime should be right now.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
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Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 26, 2024 10:48:38 GMT -5
I wasn't attempting to turn it into a company v company war. I enjoy both for the most part and despise the tribalism that exists between both sets of fans. All I was saying was if I was a part of that roster/company, I'd be seriously thinking of handing my notice in. The culture of abuse has clearly been present at management level for years and could potentially still be lingering. I wouldn't want to spend one minute more there personally given some still there in positions of power most likely had knowledge of a lot of this. I was going to ask myself, "Why can't we?" The fact of the matter is that we don't know how far out on the web of WWE this poison sits. We don't know how many of the guys in the locker room received photo or video from Vince of his victims or to what end Vince might have been sending them out. Given Vince's demonstrated willingness to watch and his documented fetishization of men's parts, we don't know if it was just women he was forcing into these situations or if he was using the women under his control (because, let's face it, what choice did they have?) as contract considerations or, indeed, to create blackmail for some of the lads in the locker room. As much as we may dump on Tony Khan here, I don't think there's any question of who I'd trust in an office setting. As for any of the talents who might have either benefitted from this system or who might have suffered under it, I'd already suggested that TKO/WWE might want to show some measure of atonement by opening the door for those with qualms about continuing to work with such a company as WWE to walk out without penalty.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 25, 2024 23:34:05 GMT -5
If Brock was "given" this woman as part of consideration for re-signing, and the new contract was under TKO, hoo boy.
If Vince and/or Laurinaitis were in the room while he "performed", it does beg yet another question. How many of the boys were either "offered" or "compelled" to "perform" in front of Vince, possibly whilst being video-recorded? What was his reasoning for naming certain toys after certain superstars?
Before he dies, even if he never sees the inside of a jail cell he wasn't thrown in for kayfabe, I'd like the world to know the full extent of his misdeeds and for him to face that public knowledge. I want his every outing to make Cersei's Walk of Shame seem like a pleasant summer stroll in comparison. I want him to feel shame like he's probably never felt in the last sixty years.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 25, 2024 20:53:45 GMT -5
What are the odds they book him as #14 and never gets to the ring before he's set on by the AOP before being dragged off to the abyss?
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 25, 2024 20:11:32 GMT -5
Maybe it's inappropriate to bring this up (better suited to a separate thread?), but this does beg the question, if this winds up coming back down on all these people and they're all forced to leave, then who runs the company? You're basically wiping out the entire upper management chain of command. I'm literally imagining Vince Russo showing up at the Endeavor offices being all like "so I hear you have some openings?". It's a good question, but I'm pretty sure that a) someone among the senior management is going to come absolutely, squeaky clean about what they know, if for no other reason than self-preservation; b) there are enough behind-the-scenes people in promotions all over the world who would _love_ the opportunity to work creatively for WWE and, indeed, have a hand in its redemption; c) Endeavor can probably find among its executives and staff the necessary skills to provide day-to-day operations (logistics, TV production, human resources) without tapping into the 'rasslin' business well; and d) everyone and their dog knows that Russo (and Bischoff for that matter) would not be useful in any capacity to restore the company's reputation. Cornette with a filter, maybe. Definitely not Russo.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 25, 2024 18:52:58 GMT -5
Little about Vince surprises me anymore. Just the summary, though, feels as though I had _Serbian Film_ playing in the room with me muted and the brightness turned down to zero. I know enough to know that I don't wanna see it for myself. My heart goes out to Vince's victims; I hope that they're able to find healing and closure and justice.
As for WWE, in my view:
a) Vince is in Benoit territory at this point, or sure as f*** needs to be. Wipe his face, voice and everything that has been within a mile of him from all WWE programming at this point, and never again let it see the light of day. No more TV appearances for him, ever - not even in a Capt. Pike scenario from ST: TOS.
b) John Laurinaitis needs to be fired immediately, if he hasn't already.
c) Brock Lesnar's contract needs to be terminated with immediate effect. There's no getting away from this. He can go back to his farm and tip cows for the rest of his miserable, entitled life.
d) Triple H, Stephanie McMahon, Nick Khan, Bruce Prichard and Paul Heyman need to be intensely questioned about their knowledge of what was going on ad how it was handled. McDevitt's never getting a retirement and probably deserves that fate. If their answers don't stand up to scrutiny and there's evidence that they're lying, they should be removed from the company. I'd go so far as to suggest that the Performance Center crew needs a close side-eye as well. Michaels and Regal likely know something of all this and should probably come clean for their own consciences.
e) Anyone currently under contract with WWE must be given an immediate opportunity to leave the company of their own will with no penalty. The reputational damage the company has suffered with Vince's involvement is enormous, even for those who have not been involved with the sharing of texts/messages. To stick with the company at this point, with this information out, might well be seen as complicity. Giving the option to walk regardless of contract status will be a gesture of atonement for the company and a chance for talent to move elsewhere without the stain of Vince on them.
f) Anyone on a Legends contract should have any non-disparagement clauses in their contracts annulled. Depending on how far back the rot lies, this will either set them free or send them running. In any case, they should be looked at as well.
I would suggest that Endeavor is going to have a very close interest in WWE's operations from here on out. There's little choice when the rot in WWE may be that deep. Their network partners, present and future, as well as their sponsors may well demand oversight.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 12, 2024 14:17:13 GMT -5
I was just about ready to post something similar to this. It's Jan 10th in the year 2024 and after wasting 20 minutes on reddit I've seen more people defend Chris Benoit than Kevin Dunn. Until we see a montage of Kevin Dunn taking chair shots to the head, I don't think Dunn can excuse the shitty multi-cuts on a brain injury or similar issue. Then again, we don't know what happened in the production truck over the years.... I'm sorry. I'll see myself out.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 12, 2024 14:05:12 GMT -5
I think this points to the primary problem of Roman Reigns as champion.
He needs to be available and to be advertised if the company's intent is to use him as their poster boy and to draw money. There is underpromising and over-delivering, yes. However, it points to Roman's growing irrelevance to the overall product and begs the question of why he has the title(s) if he's not around to defend them and they're not selling him as being around. What's he even there for?
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 11, 2024 19:57:11 GMT -5
I'd say the OG3 should go in; Braun, too, if you're going to put him in at all. Orton and Bryan/Danielson should get their own inductions individually when the time comes.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 5, 2024 19:04:02 GMT -5
Barring a shock win against Roman or a boatload of money to compensate, I think Drew is done in WWE - and they may not be able to get him back a third time.
Most likely, he goes to AEW and either joins the Blackpool Combat Club (which wouldn't be a bad fit for him), or sticks about as a lone wolf with eyes on the prize regardless of who's holding it.
Whatever CM Punk may have to say about AEW, he lost the moral high ground on that over a year ago and has since lost credibility on his past beef with WWE. He's not going to be a factor in whatever conflict is going on between WWE and AEW.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Jan 4, 2024 20:16:40 GMT -5
Dare we hope that what will follow will feel far more unabashedly like a pro wrestling program now that the last of the craft's haters is out of the business.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Dec 17, 2023 21:32:42 GMT -5
It's a crushing blow for anyone to miss that amount of time due to injury.
Some have suggested this would be an opportunity start a family. I disagree; if her history of injuries listed here is accurate, pregnancy and childbirth may pose some significant risks for her (more than it normally might for any woman.) She has never seemed inclined towards having children anyway.
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nisidhe
Hank Scorpio
O Superman....O judge....O Mom and Dad....
Posts: 5,732
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Post by nisidhe on Dec 17, 2023 20:50:08 GMT -5
I seem to remember back on the old r.s.p-w newsgroup a discussion about how the steroids were creeping back into pro wrestling after the steroid scandal and that, in the later 90s they were being used at that time simply to speed up healing from injuries. Of course, as we learned to our horror, there was a lot of stuff about to keep these guys on the road for longer stretches and bring them back sooner and keep them looking good through it all. We lost a lot of talent in the late 90s and into the 00s because of the Wild West mentality in the business.
There have been a lot of changes since then, but I'm not sure that steroid use has declined all that much. The real culprits for the carnage we saw were the painkillers, stimulants and depressants (and antidepressants) that helped these people cope with the rigours of life on the road and the toxic work environment that prevailed at that time.
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