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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 22, 2023 6:15:06 GMT -5
"The titles haven't been on Dynamite." "Yeah, they've been defended a bunch on Collision." "I don't watch Collision." Maybe there should be a new rule on this board. “Anyone with any slight criticism or negative opinions on AEW will be mocked and feel like your opinion doesn’t matter so please, only positive takes or opinions are recommended” Or, and this goes for everyone here, a lot of you can *grow up*. I’m beyond tired of the handholding we have to do around here for a forum filled primarily with people over the age of 30. People are going to offer critiques, people are going to find some of those critiques silly and say so. None of that is a value judgment on you as a person, it’s talking about professional “no, seriously, this is what all the drama is about” wrestling. If it turns into something more, that’s mostly on *you*, not so much on the vast majority of comments from others. The snap overly defensive responses to anything resembling a critique of AEW, the constant litany of “everything is wrong” and the endless nitpicking at the other end of the spectrum, meantime a handful of you have managed to scare off a whole bunch of people who just want to come into this section to sit down and talk about a wrestling show they largely enjoy. I’m dead serious when I say in the not too distant past I’ve given serious thought to closing this section of the forum because it’s like the very existence of this promotion has fundamentally broken people’s ability to just discuss shit and have a good time with this silly hobby we all supposedly love. Our (unpaid) mod staff is swamped by shit mostly coming from a regular cast of characters in this section and have extended an abundance of grace to just about everyone, and that grace largely gets thrown back in our faces. And if anyone is reading this and wants to post something like a public “if I’ve contributed to that, I apologize”, f***ing *don’t*; instead, just *think*, for the love of god, about why there might be a perception about you or this section when you’re posting, and just *do better*.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 21, 2023 22:06:35 GMT -5
"The titles haven't been on Dynamite." "Yeah, they've been defended a bunch on Collision." "I don't watch Collision."
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 20, 2023 21:36:50 GMT -5
Tony Khan: “Why, there are fans that actually enjoy Woman’s wrestling and want to see more of it! Am I so out of touch?. No. It’s the fans who are wrong.” Didn't Collision main event with a women's tag match? Ratings go up and down based on what we, as individual posters, like and dislike, don'tcha see.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 20, 2023 18:14:55 GMT -5
You guys moaning they haven't announced the participants a day or so before they will announce them? Who cares. The tournament is going to last a month. Plenty of time to hype and mull of match ups etc Half the fun of the G1 is speculating who can make a deep run into the tournament or who is winning it all. TK kinda torpedoed that by doing this move. I honestly agree with both perspectives. As a NJPW diehard, the show(s) where the G1 entrants and blocks get announced is a giddy day, not doing that feels silly. Could make something fun out of the night you announce entrants, plus maybe have a couple of "wild card" spots that less established wrestlers need to win qualifying matches to earn, etc. This has the potential to be really, really good, but you want the crowd there to already be into what's going down. On the other, there's basically no way this doesn't deliver, and it's the first one, so if the theatrics aren't there yet then alright. I want to see what stories come out of the matches that happen and what this "triple crown" thing ends up shaping up to be. And since it's the first one maybe they're going for more surprises on who's in for now; I don't agree with doing it that way, but again, not really worried about it.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 19, 2023 21:16:47 GMT -5
Pretty unreal, and especially crazy to think Jimmy has outlived her despite being in hospice care for multiple months after they thought he'd only have a few weeks. Both did tons and tons of public service after their time at the White House, to a level that no other presidential couple can really be said to match, and a loving marriage going that long is nothing short of remarkable.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 19, 2023 21:12:54 GMT -5
How are we blaming people being cold on AEW, on the "betrayal on them being a progressive company" when on the first Dynamite ever, Jake Hager debuted?? Whatever promise they made immediately never happened in that regard and whether you think AEW is "cold" now or not or people are cold on it, that really isn't the reason because I don't really think it was something they ever acted upon... Yeah, I disagree strongly and think folks are kinda kidding themselves right now. AEW painted themselves as a company that’s the alternative to WWE. A significant portion of that framing was being for the fans, fans that WWE had shunned and yes, that does include the marginalized identities within the fanbase. AEW PR, TK, the whole lot rode the wave of goodwill as they sold out arenas instantly. Between the influx of WWE talent, TK losing his mind and showing his ass, and the complete about face that’s occurred in the absence of certain figures, you kinda have to have your head in the sand to not think certain fans feel like they got sold a package under false advertising and are now tuning out. It’s not the only reason for the downturn rn but to pretend it’s not a factor is just…silly, imo. It may not have been a thing for you but this shit hits home for some folks and I don’t think that’s wrong to stop supporting a company on that basis. I kind of doubt that has anything to do with anything, to be honest.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 19, 2023 18:25:24 GMT -5
I wonder if they start ramping the devil stuff up to the point where MJF is so determined to get his hands on him that he offers him a title match at Worlds End. Then devil comes out for match and reveals mask before bell rings and it's *insert shocking reveal* and match goes ahead. Could they really build a ppv main event on MJF vs Mystery Devil though and it sell? Maybe. But with Joe, Wardlow, they've semi hinted at Hobbs too, all gunning for him maybe we building to a big multi man at Worlds End. Elimination Chamber style match Wait, so they hired Flair just so they could re-do the Black Scorpion?
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 19, 2023 17:55:04 GMT -5
Another part of this match, and speaking of the way Skye did that Code Blue: Statlander is kind of the division's Claudio Castagnoli, in that one of Claudio's greatest strengths as a performer is, well, his strength, in particular when he acts as a base for smaller, more agile/high-flying wrestlers to work off of and know they'll be safe because Claudio will keep his balance and catch people doing riskier stuff. Statlander has that combination of strength, stability, and sure-handed working ability to do that with some of the smaller and younger women in the division.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 19, 2023 17:39:51 GMT -5
Jesus, the early cagematch ratings for this match are at like a 4, and that's pretty silly.
Here's the main case for the injury angle: this is part of the larger story that as Max opens himself up more to the fans and to new friends, he takes greater in-ring risks, something he was always loathe to do during his heel run. It's bringing him success, but it's also causing him to rack up lingering injuries. He went into the Samoa Joe match with his neck screwed up, he's here with his leg screwed up, but the only way he was going to stop Jay from winning was to go over the top, let his adrenaline do the talking, and take risks like we've never really seen him take (mainly the elbow to the outside and the diving cutter).
This is all being egged on, of course, by Adam Cole. And Cole was right: Max would've lost last night if he didn't go for "home run swing" offense and thus buy himself enough time and wear Jay down enough so that Max could win by cheating in the end, because otherwise White likely ends the match in under ten minutes. At the same time, Adam is encouraging his buddy to take insane chances that are causing him to leave this match more hurt and more vulnerable than he's yet been; MJF's likely going to World's End with his body falling apart. He's becoming an easier target.
Now, there's the case for Jay White here: Max had to do all that "home run" offense, Jay didn't get to hit his finisher, and in the end it still took a ref bump/low blow/diamond ring punch to put him down. Jay's hubris also played into this match: he should have ended the match early, but he can't help himself, he's a vile bastard and he wanted to play with his food before winning, the kind of thing that once led to him losing his chance to win the big one at the Tokyo Dome because he kept prodding Kota Ibushi until he accidentally activated Murder Ibushi and suffered the consequences (no, not expecting people to know all of Jay's NJPW run, just saying this is something he's done before). This is far from the end for him, and he'll get every chance to full recover from losing.
That said, that doesn't change that this match was still definitely a change of pace from what people are normally accustomed to in AEW main events, and like I said before I get people spending money on this show and wanting to see White/Friedman in a minimal bullshit one-on-one encounter, because both guys are capable of bringing the goods in a main event spot like that. It was very much a Monday Night Wars era WCW or WWF match: it was the nWo running in to try and stop Luger from tapping out Hogan, or Austin fighting his way into the arena and fighting through the Corporation, etc., and it combined that with modern in-ring work...and that definitely felt different, in a way I can't say people are wrong for not preferring, because that's what "different" does much of the time.
It's also not a stretch to argue that it could've done better by Jay White: I'll argue that he was still pretty protected overall and will bounce back in no time, but if you were sitting there last night feeling that twinge of "this should be a lot easier for him right now", again, I can't call you crazy or anything. That's where the arguments about execution come in, I suppose.
But ultimately, I just think this became another chapter in a story that's basically been unfolding since All In: Max is getting hurt more and more, "the devil" is ensuring he remains pretty isolated (e.g. taking out The Acclaimed just as Max opened up to them), and now the champ's got a bum leg and is facing down the barrel of Samoa Joe, Wardlow, likely an enraged Switchblade, possibly a now ascendant Swerve, etc.
Now, take this to World's End and don't pull the trigger on whatever the major twist or turn will be? Then I think you're taking things too far past and just milking the story, at least in my opinion.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 19, 2023 11:55:43 GMT -5
I say, keep the injury bit, but don’t have MJF taken to the hospital. Have him say he’ll stay in the main event against doctor’s orders. Then the match happens and Jay White has his BCG backup. Adam Cole shows up to be in Max’s corner and that helps him win. Yeah that's where I'm at. Like a bit overbooked but... the vitriol some seem to have confuses me. Some of it is likely just subjective, given that it’s very different from what people typically expect of an AEW PPV main event, and I can at least understand that view. I do think some people, though, have overcorrected since the early 2000s and think that anything remotely resembling “crash TV” booking is automatically bad; after all, it’s what “killed WCW” or ruined TNA, etc. Hell, old school ROH was basically founded on “we know you’re tired of screwy setups and finishes for matches, so we won’t do that here”, so I get that to some extent, but I do think there’s room for that kind of zaniness sometimes if it’s executed well. Basically, if it’s not someone’s preferred style I get it (hey, some people spent $50 wanting a straightforward main event between two S tier talents in Jay and Max, I get that), but I think some just kind of have an overreaction to what was considered the bane of wrestling booking circa 20-25 years ago.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 19, 2023 6:33:09 GMT -5
That was (not so) low key one of best matches of the night, great layout, pace, and execution by all three women. Had the Texas deathmatch not happened, it could've had a pretty strong argument for the top spot.
Was pulling for Statlander, but Julia winning is a strong choice, too, she's really come a long way in a very short time but this'll be a chance for her to try some new things and work a different range of opponents...plus, they're doing a nice job of establishing her and Skye as potentially long term bitter rivals. Statlander's got World title written all over her, but let's see the build to that.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 19, 2023 6:29:16 GMT -5
Overbooked, yes, but it fully hooked me and it hooked the crowd. On a personal level, I can't argue with that. Honestly the only part of this storyline I didn't care for was the belt stealing. But now that's over and we can move on to the hundreds of people who want MJF dead. Yeah, said it during the show but my heart was in my throat for a lot of that. MJF's matches are definitely being done differently from a lot of the rest of the show; the iron man match with Danielson proved he can go in a more straightforward setting, but he clearly wants to milk emotion from the crowd with the way his character is going now and the various story threads that have been established. It's not going to be everyone's cup of tea; personally, my preference would've been him and Jay just tearing it up last night without any of the extra stuff, where Jay could still be a vile bastard but without the added elements we got...but again, I'd be lying if I said I wasn't pretty hooked by what they were doing, I had to be up by 6am for work and I stuck with it and had my heart beating pretty hard most of the way through. Jay's going to be fine from this, though; it's his first pinfall loss in AEW, he still needed to get hit in the crotch and knocked out with the ring (plus let his hubris get in the way, especially when he would take time to insult Cole) and Max had to pull out every stop to get the job done. Hot take time: to me, who goes back to watching just about all of Jay's career in NJPW/ROH before this, Switchblade feels to me like what Randy Orton should've been over the years, and he's going to use the way this match went as fuel in some way for his character.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 19, 2023 6:20:30 GMT -5
Just said it in the ROH PPV thread, but my guess is that this won't be a full on AJPW Triple Crown situation, where three belts genuinely become one title, but I also acknowledge that stranger things have happened.
My guess is that the winner of this tournament gets an Owen Hart tourny-style belt as a trophy, and since Eddie's doing this gimmick it means he or they'll walk out with his two titles, as well, which he's defended separately at different times, so there's no reason why those belts couldn't keep getting defended separately as needed. Guess we'll see, but I would appreciate some clarification in the next couple of shows before we get to World's End.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 19, 2023 6:18:27 GMT -5
Ok, I'm 1000% on board with reviving Survival of the Fittest, always loved that match. Still, once a new champ is crowned there'll still be some work that needs to be done for the belt's status itself. We'll see who wins and what kind of stories stem from that. With the ROH World Title being folded into an American Triple Crown along with the NJPW Strong Title and the AEW Continental Title, it's possible the ROH TV Title becomes its top belt. It's being phrased oddly, isn't it? I figure whoever wins the tournament will get some kind of accolade ala the Owen Hart tournament belts, but I doubt they'd become a belt to defend. At the same time, I remember hearing some people throw around recently that there was a chance Honor Club could become the home of both ROH content and some US-based NJPW content, in which case combining the Strong and ROH belts would be interesting. I doubt the ROH title is going away, though; Eddie's defended both titles he holds separately, so I doubt it becomes a full-on Triple Crown situation where three titles genuinely combine into one...but then again, stranger things have happened? We'll know soon enough, I guess, but it'll need to be clarified.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 19, 2023 0:27:37 GMT -5
MJF attaining SuperCena status will likely boil down to how World's End goes; if he walks out champion with no sign that he's in deep shit immediately afterward, then yeah, I think he'll officially be invincible. As of now, I still buy things being in 'crescendoing to the climax' mode, given that the devil wasn't revealed or even appeared (at least not in costume...) tonight, so he's hitting his peak now before things have the chance to crash around him, whether that's losing the belt at World's End or something otherwise fateful happening at that show.
Either way, I get them wanting to milk things because Max is doing business for them and is over as hell, but in a vacuum the story as it stands right now is best served hitting a decisive moment at the next PPV.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 19, 2023 0:00:52 GMT -5
that was really exhausting but I think if I take anything away from tonight is that unless you go live you really can’t see just how universally over MJF is right now Yep; granted it was in Queens so he was the hometown hero, but just being at Grand Slam it stuck out how much I was the asshole for wanting Joe to win (sorry Max, I know you had your Mets gear on, but Joe is Joe).
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 18, 2023 23:58:44 GMT -5
Very surprised at no devil appearance here, which means all roads now lead to Long Island for the culmination.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 18, 2023 23:55:24 GMT -5
So the next PPV is World's End, both for the end of the year, but also for the fact that Max is now the ripest of ripe pickings for the army of people out for his blood and/or title.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 18, 2023 23:51:43 GMT -5
All future discourse about this match aside, my heart's pumping pretty hard for this.
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Post by HMARK Center on Nov 18, 2023 23:50:05 GMT -5
Wait Cole can't be the devil cuz the devil will probably come out here masked when the ref bump happens cuz they gotta do the dramatic unmasking moment have the devil come out and unmask and a poorly edited on jpeg of Jay White's face is on him despite Jay already being out there It's Cardblade!
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