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Post by polarbearpete on May 17, 2024 8:56:09 GMT -5
Something about the Bucks turns a lot of people off. Their segments a lot of times lose viewers. Could be people don't take them seriously due to size, don't like how meta they are, see them as a parody. Something about them turns quite a few people off of them. I do think The Elite need muscle if they're gonna be a powerful heel stable. The Bucks are one of the biggest draws they have for ratings. Keep an eye on which segments some wrestlers put themselves in: when it comes to, say, quarters 6 or 7 of a Dynamite, that's often a slot where they expect to lose viewers given what point it's at during the show, what point sports competition is usually at (e.g. a prime time basketball or hockey game is likely getting close to wrapping up around 9:30pm EST), etc. As such, you're often seeing a number of solid draws being put into that slot to keep the numbers higher despite the fact they know a drop is coming - Jericho, the Bucks, Copeland, Hangman for awhile, etc. often seemingly volunteer to eat the "death slots" because the company knows those guys will maintain most of the audience during the toughest part of the night, and those guys are established enough that they know a dip in the numbers during their segments won't reflect poorly on them given those circumstances. Meantime, you reserve the prime spots for the people you're looking to push to the top and turn into top draws, which is what they're doing with Swerve right now. Perry is going to need a little more time to become a consistent ratings draw, I think, but positioning him with the Bucks will help with that; it'll likely end up helping Okada, too. Are The Bucks one of the biggest draws they have for ratings? That would be a surprise to me to see the numbers supporting that notion. I know generally over the years the biggest needle movers for AEW have been Omega (in a singles match), Jericho, Moxley, MJF.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on May 17, 2024 8:56:48 GMT -5
Now now, this is good news because reasons and it beat something thing or other that was on the same night Well, of course.. and a shrinking audience is absolutely fine, as long as the TV audience in general is shrinking, I guess.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 17, 2024 9:33:29 GMT -5
Now now, this is good news because reasons and it beat something thing or other that was on the same night Well, of course.. and a shrinking audience is absolutely fine, as long as the TV audience in general is shrinking, I guess. I mean, yeah, that's what happens; cable audience shrinks, your numbers shrink. WWE temporarily bucking the trend was a huge deal, but that's how it goes, and if overall TV viewership is down on a given night for whatever reason, it is what it is.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on May 17, 2024 9:38:07 GMT -5
Well, of course.. and a shrinking audience is absolutely fine, as long as the TV audience in general is shrinking, I guess. I mean, yeah, that's what happens; cable audience shrinks, your numbers shrink. WWE temporarily bucking the trend was a huge deal, but that's how it goes, and if overall TV viewership is down on a given night for whatever reason, it is what it is. It also highlights what a great long term move WWE might be making by getting onto a streaming service with RAW on Netflix.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on May 17, 2024 9:52:17 GMT -5
At least we all understand ratings and viewership numbers better than Dana White:
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Post by eJm on May 17, 2024 9:59:09 GMT -5
I mean, yeah, that's what happens; cable audience shrinks, your numbers shrink. WWE temporarily bucking the trend was a huge deal, but that's how it goes, and if overall TV viewership is down on a given night for whatever reason, it is what it is. It also highlights what a great long term move WWE might be making by getting onto a streaming service with RAW on Netflix. And not just that, basically taking three of your biggest markets (Canada, UK/Ireland and Latin America) all to Netflix.
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on May 17, 2024 10:14:35 GMT -5
Now now, this is good news because reasons and it beat something thing or other that was on the same night Well, of course.. and a shrinking audience is absolutely fine, as long as the TV audience in general is shrinking, I guess. Lately I've been remiss to get involved in ratings conversations anywhere on the internet because everyone is having the same conversation ad nauseam and it's all being punctuated now by the scjerks coming out of their caves to celebrate the impending death of AEW. But...I've got to comment on this. Is there a "shrinking audience"? Or is there just a slightly lower live television audience? If WrestleTix is to be believed, and I suppose it has to be because it's the only source we have these days, ticket sales are trending in a positive direction as we enter the summer. Purportedly, DVR numbers are good. PPV numbers are good (and especially considering that AEW borderline objectively overcharges for their PPVs). The international audience is very good. I don't think you can conclusively say that AEW has a "shrinking audience," just because it is estimated that fewer people are watching live weekly in the United States. I don't think anyone is saying that lower estimated live TV ratings are "absolutely fine" much less that it's "good news," but a lot of us are just trying to keep things in perspective because there's so f***ing much cynicism around AEW online right now to an extent that you'd think that the company isn't going to make it another week and it's exhausting.
A lot of us just want to enjoy and talk about the product but, lately, all anyone wants to talk about in regard to AEW is the fact that, like, 22 fewer Nielsen households decided to watch Dynamite this week than the same week last year. I know AEW brought a lot of it on itself, and Tony Khan's Twitter antics exacerbate things, but this foreboding attitude the wrestling internet at large has about AEW despite the show itself still being quite good, and Dynamite and Collision both still performing comparatively well in their timeslots, is starting to feel like a lot of people are trying to talk AEW's demise into existence, or something.
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Post by stan1337 on May 17, 2024 10:24:00 GMT -5
Well, of course.. and a shrinking audience is absolutely fine, as long as the TV audience in general is shrinking, I guess. Lately I've been remiss to get involved in ratings conversations anywhere on the internet because everyone is having the same conversation ad nauseam and it's all being punctuated now by the scjerks coming out of their caves to celebrate the impending death of AEW. But...I've got to comment on this. Is there a "shrinking audience"? Or is there just a slightly lower live television audience? If WrestleTix is to be believed, and I suppose it has to be because it's the only source we have these days, ticket sales are trending in a positive direction as we enter the summer. Purportedly, DVR numbers are good. PPV numbers are good (and especially considering that AEW borderline objectively overcharges for their PPVs). The international audience is very good. I don't think you can conclusively say that AEW has a "shrinking audience," just because it is estimated that fewer people are watching live weekly in the United States. I don't think anyone is saying that lower estimated live TV ratings are "absolutely fine" much less that it's "good news," but a lot of us are just trying to keep things in perspective because there's so f***ing much cynicism around AEW online right now to an extend that you'd think that the company isn't going to make it another week and it's exhausting.
A lot of us just want to enjoy and talk about the product but, lately, all anyone wants to talk about in regard to AEW is the fact that, like, 22 fewer Nielsen households decided to watch Dynamite this week than the same week last year. I know AEW brought a lot of it on itself, and Tony Khan's Twitter antics exacerbate things, but this foreboding attitude the wrestling internet at large has about AEW despite the show itself still being quite good, and Dynamite and Collision both still performing comparatively well in their timeslots, is starting to feel like a lot of people are trying to talk AEW's demise into existence, or something. For real DZ, preach it. I can only think of myself and many many hardcore fans that use Fite to consume every hour of AEW out there. It is not an insignificant number. So many of the most loyal AEW fans are not measured in this metric at all. It is what it is. I agree that the best course is to avoid the rating discussions. Folks who spend a significant portion of their finite time on earth rabidly hating some random entertainment option are not going to listen to reason. They will cherry pick or provide bad faith context to any item they can to bury the thing that they they hate. It's sad but true.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on May 17, 2024 10:28:13 GMT -5
Lately I've been remiss to get involved in ratings conversations anywhere on the internet because everyone is having the same conversation ad nauseam and it's all being punctuated now by the scjerks coming out of their caves to celebrate the impending death of AEW. But...I've got to comment on this. Is there a "shrinking audience"? Or is there just a slightly lower live television audience? If WrestleTix is to be believed, and I suppose it has to be because it's the only source we have these days, ticket sales are trending in a positive direction as we enter the summer. Purportedly, DVR numbers are good. PPV numbers are good (and especially considering that AEW borderline objectively overcharges for their PPVs). The international audience is very good. I don't think you can conclusively say that AEW has a "shrinking audience," just because it is estimated that fewer people are watching live weekly in the United States. I don't think anyone is saying that lower estimated live TV ratings are "absolutely fine" much less that it's "good news," but a lot of us are just trying to keep things in perspective because there's so f***ing much cynicism around AEW online right now to an extend that you'd think that the company isn't going to make it another week and it's exhausting.
A lot of us just want to enjoy and talk about the product but, lately, all anyone wants to talk about in regard to AEW is the fact that, like, 22 fewer Nielsen households decided to watch Dynamite this week than the same week last year. I know AEW brought a lot of it on itself, and Tony Khan's Twitter antics exacerbate things, but this foreboding attitude the wrestling internet at large has about AEW despite the show itself still being quite good, and Dynamite and Collision both still performing comparatively well in their timeslots, is starting to feel like a lot of people are trying to talk AEW's demise into existence, or something. For real DZ, preach it. I can only think of myself and many many hardcore fans that use Fite to consume every hour of AEW out there. It is not an insignificant number. So many of the most loyal AEW fans are not measured in this metric at all. It is what it is. I agree that the best course is to avoid the rating discussions. Folks who spend a significant portion of their finite time on earth rabidly hating some random entertainment option are not going to listen to reason. They will cherry pick or provide bad faith context to any item they can to bury the thing that they they hate. It's sad but true. I for one watch using the TNT/TBS apps using my parents cable log-in.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 17, 2024 10:52:40 GMT -5
For real DZ, preach it. I can only think of myself and many many hardcore fans that use Fite to consume every hour of AEW out there. It is not an insignificant number. So many of the most loyal AEW fans are not measured in this metric at all. It is what it is. I agree that the best course is to avoid the rating discussions. Folks who spend a significant portion of their finite time on earth rabidly hating some random entertainment option are not going to listen to reason. They will cherry pick or provide bad faith context to any item they can to bury the thing that they they hate. It's sad but true. I for one watch using the TNT/TBS apps using my parents cable log-in. If you watch that through your TV, that’s likely to be collected by Nielsen (if you were a Nielsen household). My understanding is that they do capture streaming as well.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on May 17, 2024 12:31:28 GMT -5
Well, of course.. and a shrinking audience is absolutely fine, as long as the TV audience in general is shrinking, I guess. Lately I've been remiss to get involved in ratings conversations anywhere on the internet because everyone is having the same conversation ad nauseam and it's all being punctuated now by the scjerks coming out of their caves to celebrate the impending death of AEW. But...I've got to comment on this. Is there a "shrinking audience"? Or is there just a slightly lower live television audience? If WrestleTix is to be believed, and I suppose it has to be because it's the only source we have these days, ticket sales are trending in a positive direction as we enter the summer. Purportedly, DVR numbers are good. PPV numbers are good (and especially considering that AEW borderline objectively overcharges for their PPVs). The international audience is very good. I don't think you can conclusively say that AEW has a "shrinking audience," just because it is estimated that fewer people are watching live weekly in the United States. I don't think anyone is saying that lower estimated live TV ratings are "absolutely fine" much less that it's "good news," but a lot of us are just trying to keep things in perspective because there's so f***ing much cynicism around AEW online right now to an extent that you'd think that the company isn't going to make it another week and it's exhausting.
A lot of us just want to enjoy and talk about the product but, lately, all anyone wants to talk about in regard to AEW is the fact that, like, 22 fewer Nielsen households decided to watch Dynamite this week than the same week last year. I know AEW brought a lot of it on itself, and Tony Khan's Twitter antics exacerbate things, but this foreboding attitude the wrestling internet at large has about AEW despite the show itself still being quite good, and Dynamite and Collision both still performing comparatively well in their timeslots, is starting to feel like a lot of people are trying to talk AEW's demise into existence, or something. I was saying this in jest, as it's one of the reasons I see pointed out in ratings threads for both WWE and AEW, but I should have given more context/clarification. However, I do think it's a valid point in that the TV audience is shrinking, but you're right, it's more likely the 'live' audience. That does show that people feel less immediacy for the product, though, I think. If it was must see.. people would want to see it? It's very hard to judge ratings in this day and age when streaming is so prominent, and highlights are up on YouTube nearly instant, but I do think that if people were heavily invested in a product it would still reflect in the traditional TV ratings. Now, I'm not saying AEW is going under or anything like that. I don't bash AEW or make Doom posts. I don't watch it enough to really judge it. If you look at my posts I hardly ever even post in the AEW boards, especially in the ratings threads (or WWE's ratings threads for that matter), but I saw that number and I did think it was particularly low. Low enough to comment on.
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Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on May 17, 2024 13:08:39 GMT -5
Lately I've been remiss to get involved in ratings conversations anywhere on the internet because everyone is having the same conversation ad nauseam and it's all being punctuated now by the scjerks coming out of their caves to celebrate the impending death of AEW. But...I've got to comment on this. Is there a "shrinking audience"? Or is there just a slightly lower live television audience? If WrestleTix is to be believed, and I suppose it has to be because it's the only source we have these days, ticket sales are trending in a positive direction as we enter the summer. Purportedly, DVR numbers are good. PPV numbers are good (and especially considering that AEW borderline objectively overcharges for their PPVs). The international audience is very good. I don't think you can conclusively say that AEW has a "shrinking audience," just because it is estimated that fewer people are watching live weekly in the United States. I don't think anyone is saying that lower estimated live TV ratings are "absolutely fine" much less that it's "good news," but a lot of us are just trying to keep things in perspective because there's so f***ing much cynicism around AEW online right now to an extent that you'd think that the company isn't going to make it another week and it's exhausting.
A lot of us just want to enjoy and talk about the product but, lately, all anyone wants to talk about in regard to AEW is the fact that, like, 22 fewer Nielsen households decided to watch Dynamite this week than the same week last year. I know AEW brought a lot of it on itself, and Tony Khan's Twitter antics exacerbate things, but this foreboding attitude the wrestling internet at large has about AEW despite the show itself still being quite good, and Dynamite and Collision both still performing comparatively well in their timeslots, is starting to feel like a lot of people are trying to talk AEW's demise into existence, or something. I was saying this in jest, as it's one of the reasons I see pointed out in ratings threads for both WWE and AEW, but I should have given more context/clarification. However, I do think it's a valid point in that the TV audience is shrinking, but you're right, it's more likely the 'live' audience. That does show that people feel less immediacy for the product, though, I think. If it was must see.. people would want to see it? It's very hard to judge ratings in this day and age when streaming is so prominent, and highlights are up on YouTube nearly instant, but I do think that if people were heavily invested in a product it would still reflect in the traditional TV ratings. Now, I'm not saying AEW is going under or anything like that. I don't bash AEW or make Doom posts. I don't watch it enough to really judge it. If you look at my posts I hardly ever even post in the AEW boards, especially in the ratings threads (or WWE's ratings threads for that matter), but I saw that number and I did think it was particularly low. Low enough to comment on. Yeah, definitely wasn't my intention to target you specifically. More just to say there's this notion that AEW's fanbase is "shrinking" when I'm not sure that's necessarily accurate based on live TV viewership as the only metric. I definitely think that a decent number of people who tuned into AEW more casually have mostly tuned out for various reasons, but I tend to think AEW's core fanbase remains largely the same.
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Post by Cyno on May 17, 2024 13:18:38 GMT -5
I'd say during playoff time, especially for sports where large wrestling markets like New York and Boston are involved, watching those games live will take priority over watching wrestling live for a lot of people. If it's a choice between the Knicks and wrestling, I'm choosing the Knicks unless they're getting blown out.
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on May 17, 2024 13:30:55 GMT -5
I was saying this in jest, as it's one of the reasons I see pointed out in ratings threads for both WWE and AEW, but I should have given more context/clarification. However, I do think it's a valid point in that the TV audience is shrinking, but you're right, it's more likely the 'live' audience. That does show that people feel less immediacy for the product, though, I think. If it was must see.. people would want to see it? It's very hard to judge ratings in this day and age when streaming is so prominent, and highlights are up on YouTube nearly instant, but I do think that if people were heavily invested in a product it would still reflect in the traditional TV ratings. Now, I'm not saying AEW is going under or anything like that. I don't bash AEW or make Doom posts. I don't watch it enough to really judge it. If you look at my posts I hardly ever even post in the AEW boards, especially in the ratings threads (or WWE's ratings threads for that matter), but I saw that number and I did think it was particularly low. Low enough to comment on. Yeah, definitely wasn't my intention to target you specifically. More just to say there's this notion that AEW's fanbase is "shrinking" when I'm not sure that's necessarily accurate based on live TV viewership as the only metric. I definitely think that a decent number of people who tuned into AEW more casually have mostly tuned out for various reasons, but I tend to think AEW's core fanbase remains largely the same. Yeah I think the core fan base is likely intact for the most part I think it's fair to say they have lost casuals that have maybe watched for a few months then left. They are more likely the ones to leave when TK says something stupid, or they air the Punk footage, for example. I think the Nielsen ratings are very outdated at this point, though. It's not a good metric for how well a show is doing. It's also never been a measure of how good a show is either. WWF arguably had the better product than WCW from June '97 onwards, but it wouldn't reflect in the ratings until nearly a year later. I think WWE are realising just how outdated the 'ratings are, and that is a big factor in moving Raw to Netflix.
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Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,856
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Post by Kalmia on May 17, 2024 14:45:10 GMT -5
At least we all understand ratings and viewership numbers better than Dana White: Scott Steiner is scratching his head in confusion.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 17, 2024 15:44:37 GMT -5
And AEW's demo has also held very firm despite the drop in the overall number too That’s not true, that’s been the point. Dynamite’s demo has dropped considerably year over year on average (and way more significantly if you go back to 2022). Now it doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world or anything, as the number is still solid relative to non-sports. But it makes you wonder what kind of a deal they’re going to get vs. what they could’ve gotten if they had maintained or increased ratings. One of the rumored numbers is they could get per SRS and Bodyslam I believe is a billion dollars, I think they're gonna be ok dude.
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Post by eJm on May 17, 2024 17:44:20 GMT -5
I’ll say what I said in one of the other ratings threads;
If you’re that concerned about these particular numbers, get a Neilson box attached to your cable box, get your friends to attach Neilson boxes to their cable box and watch Dynamite. Otherwise, we only know, like, a small percentage of what WBD has in terms of important numbers.
Everything else is just ignoring literally everything we know coming from WBD for the past 5 years.
EDIT: And that’s not to say these discussions can’t happen but until I hear Warner Bros Discovery not wanting to give AEW spots to promote their content, including a literal show on one of their YouTube channels, a lot of it is pie in the sky thinking.
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Post by polarbearpete on May 17, 2024 18:01:11 GMT -5
That’s not true, that’s been the point. Dynamite’s demo has dropped considerably year over year on average (and way more significantly if you go back to 2022). Now it doesn’t mean it’s the end of the world or anything, as the number is still solid relative to non-sports. But it makes you wonder what kind of a deal they’re going to get vs. what they could’ve gotten if they had maintained or increased ratings. One of the rumored numbers is they could get per SRS and Bodyslam I believe is a billion dollars, I think they're gonna be ok dude. Yes I already said that I could see that happening. I was just correcting what you said about the demo, bro pal dude jack. Also doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have been more lucrative if they had maintained/increased the audience.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 17, 2024 19:05:50 GMT -5
One of the rumored numbers is they could get per SRS and Bodyslam I believe is a billion dollars, I think they're gonna be ok dude. Yes I already said that I could see that happening. I was just correcting what you said about the demo, bro pal dude jack. Also doesn’t mean it wouldn’t have been more lucrative if they had maintained/increased the audience. Maybe but if they lose the NBA I really think it's still gonna be insanely lucrative especially.
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Post by longtimelurker29 on May 17, 2024 19:13:38 GMT -5
That’s just a bad number. Anything below .27 and 750K is just bad and below their floor imo.
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