Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,511
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Aug 5, 2007 15:42:10 GMT -5
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ddt
Don Corleone
The King of Strings
Posts: 2,015
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Post by ddt on Aug 7, 2007 7:07:39 GMT -5
This is a great match, and the crowd was really into it. I never get tired of seeing it. It also marked the start of Roberts' face turn.
See, it's stuff like this that should be in main events, and not guys like Hogan, Cena, Austin, Khali, etc.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 7, 2007 7:53:48 GMT -5
This is a great match, and the crowd was really into it. I never get tired of seeing it. It also marked the start of Roberts' face turn. See, it's stuff like this that should be in main events, and not guys like Hogan, Cena, Austin, Khali, etc. Hate to break it to you, but Hogan, Cena and Austin are top draws and get the biggest pops of the night, so they should be in main events. Khali I can't say too much about, but since he's the top heel on SD, may as well throw him in the main event.
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Post by Sir Bill of Chainsawberg on Aug 7, 2007 8:02:36 GMT -5
HA! Love those "D-D-T! D-D-T!" chants.
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ddt
Don Corleone
The King of Strings
Posts: 2,015
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Post by ddt on Aug 7, 2007 8:25:11 GMT -5
This is a great match, and the crowd was really into it. I never get tired of seeing it. It also marked the start of Roberts' face turn. See, it's stuff like this that should be in main events, and not guys like Hogan, Cena, Austin, Khali, etc. Hate to break it to you, but Hogan, Cena and Austin are top draws and get the biggest pops of the night, so they should be in main events. Khali I can't say too much about, but since he's the top heel on SD, may as well throw him in the main event. They're all about cheap pops, though -- cheering for the characters or their ridiculous catchphrases and 'signature moves' (i.e. that asinine People's Elbow from The Schmuck). I'd much rather see a main event that was entertaining, and not one that's full of talentless hacks who are all style, no substance.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 7, 2007 8:39:10 GMT -5
Hate to break it to you, but Hogan, Cena and Austin are top draws and get the biggest pops of the night, so they should be in main events. Khali I can't say too much about, but since he's the top heel on SD, may as well throw him in the main event. They're all about cheap pops, though -- cheering for the characters or their ridiculous catchphrases and 'signature moves' (i.e. that asinine People's Elbow from The Schmuck). I'd much rather see a main event that was entertaining, and not one that's full of talentless hacks who are all style, no substance. Well, their main events are entertaining, you may not necessarily like them or think they're entertaining, but if you look at their matches and watch the crowd, they're into it all the way.
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ddt
Don Corleone
The King of Strings
Posts: 2,015
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Post by ddt on Aug 7, 2007 9:39:19 GMT -5
They're all about cheap pops, though -- cheering for the characters or their ridiculous catchphrases and 'signature moves' (i.e. that asinine People's Elbow from The Schmuck). I'd much rather see a main event that was entertaining, and not one that's full of talentless hacks who are all style, no substance. Well, their main events are entertaining, you may not necessarily like them or think they're entertaining, but if you look at their matches and watch the crowd, they're into it all the way. You're right, I don't think the main events are entertaining when there are supposedly unstoppable hacks like Cena, Austin and Hogan doing their usual and predictable things. If the majority of wrestling fans enjoy that, then more power to them. Personally, I think it's sad when style means more than substance, and I think it really hurts the guys who have amazing talent but can't get pushed because they're not charismatic enough. I can't figure out the mindset of someone who will go crazy for someone like Hogan over some of these wrestlers who can put on a clinic in the ring, but if that's what they like, so be it. My opinion remains the same, though -- I'd rather watch the likes of the Savage/Roberts match than anything the 'main event' guys do.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 7, 2007 9:41:59 GMT -5
Well, their main events are entertaining, you may not necessarily like them or think they're entertaining, but if you look at their matches and watch the crowd, they're into it all the way. You're right, I don't think the main events are entertaining when there are supposedly unstoppable hacks like Cena, Austin and Hogan doing their usual and predictable things. If the majority of wrestling fans enjoy that, then more power to them. Personally, I think it's sad when style means more than substance, and I think it really hurts the guys who have amazing talent but can't get pushed because they're not charismatic enough. I can't figure out the mindset of someone who will go crazy for someone like Hogan over some of these wrestlers who can put on a clinic in the ring, but if that's what they like, so be it. My opinion remains the same, though -- I'd rather watch the likes of the Savage/Roberts match than anything the 'main event' guys do. Hey if it does, more power to you. I like the Savage and Roberts' of the world too, in fact I was the one who uploaded that video as I was a huge fan of both. And in wrestling, especially nowadays, knowing all the moves in the world equates to nothing if you don't have any charisma to back it up. Dean Malenko was one of the greats in that ring, but you'd never see him headlining a PPV or selling out an arena, because he hardly has any charisma.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Aug 7, 2007 9:43:17 GMT -5
OK, I'll say it.
"Snake Roberts ruined my wedding!"
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ddt
Don Corleone
The King of Strings
Posts: 2,015
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Post by ddt on Aug 7, 2007 9:52:12 GMT -5
You're right, I don't think the main events are entertaining when there are supposedly unstoppable hacks like Cena, Austin and Hogan doing their usual and predictable things. If the majority of wrestling fans enjoy that, then more power to them. Personally, I think it's sad when style means more than substance, and I think it really hurts the guys who have amazing talent but can't get pushed because they're not charismatic enough. I can't figure out the mindset of someone who will go crazy for someone like Hogan over some of these wrestlers who can put on a clinic in the ring, but if that's what they like, so be it. My opinion remains the same, though -- I'd rather watch the likes of the Savage/Roberts match than anything the 'main event' guys do. Hey if it does, more power to you. I like the Savage and Roberts' of the world too, in fact I was the one who uploaded that video as I was a huge fan of both. And in wrestling, especially nowadays, knowing all the moves in the world equates to nothing if you don't have any charisma to back it up. Dean Malenko was one of the greats in that ring, but you'd never see him headlining a PPV or selling out an arena, because he hardly has any charisma. And that's what's sad about wrestling. Talent means nothing unless you've got a big mouth and a silly catchphrase. Even if you're talented and have a big mouth, you can still be buried by people with nothing more than a big mouth (i.e. Hogan, Cena, Austin, The Schmuck). I guess I'll never understand how someone who's all talk can be at the top of an industry called wrestling (whether you want to call it 'sports entertainment' or not).
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bob
Salacious Crumb
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 78,486
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Post by bob on Aug 7, 2007 10:09:10 GMT -5
Snake Roberts ruined my wedding
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Post by Arthur Digby Stamp on Aug 7, 2007 11:05:15 GMT -5
Hey if it does, more power to you. I like the Savage and Roberts' of the world too, in fact I was the one who uploaded that video as I was a huge fan of both. And in wrestling, especially nowadays, knowing all the moves in the world equates to nothing if you don't have any charisma to back it up. Dean Malenko was one of the greats in that ring, but you'd never see him headlining a PPV or selling out an arena, because he hardly has any charisma. And that's what's sad about wrestling. Talent means nothing unless you've got a big mouth and a silly catchphrase. Even if you're talented and have a big mouth, you can still be buried by people with nothing more than a big mouth (i.e. Hogan, Cena, Austin, The Schmuck). I guess I'll never understand how someone who's all talk can be at the top of an industry called wrestling (whether you want to call it 'sports entertainment' or not). Because it's difficult to build emotion and genuine interest in people who have no personality. Somebody has to be able to talk people into turning on their tvs and coming out to the arenas. Wrestling has been that way for years. And most of the guys you mention had already established themselves as performers before they had their catchphrases.
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ddt
Don Corleone
The King of Strings
Posts: 2,015
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Post by ddt on Aug 7, 2007 11:30:34 GMT -5
And that's what's sad about wrestling. Talent means nothing unless you've got a big mouth and a silly catchphrase. Even if you're talented and have a big mouth, you can still be buried by people with nothing more than a big mouth (i.e. Hogan, Cena, Austin, The Schmuck). I guess I'll never understand how someone who's all talk can be at the top of an industry called wrestling (whether you want to call it 'sports entertainment' or not). Because it's difficult to build emotion and genuine interest in people who have no personality. Somebody has to be able to talk people into turning on their tvs and coming out to the arenas. Wrestling has been that way for years. And most of the guys you mention had already established themselves as performers before they had their catchphrases. I don't see how people can't have any interest in someone who is really talented in the ring and always gives a good match, and how they can care about the same talentless guys with the same promos and the same three moves and the same silly catchphrases. Then again, people seem to care about spoiled, good-for-nothing, talentless people like Paris Hilton over honest, hard-working people, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised at how easily people will back superficial things over genuine things. For me, Savage/Roberts beats Hogan/Cena any day of the week.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 7, 2007 11:34:10 GMT -5
Because it's difficult to build emotion and genuine interest in people who have no personality. Somebody has to be able to talk people into turning on their tvs and coming out to the arenas. Wrestling has been that way for years. And most of the guys you mention had already established themselves as performers before they had their catchphrases. I don't see how people can't have any interest in someone who is really talented in the ring and always gives a good match, and how they can care about the same talentless guys with the same promos and the same three moves and the same silly catchphrases. Then again, people seem to care about spoiled, good-for-nothing, talentless people like Paris Hilton over honest, hard-working people, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised at how easily people will back superficial things over genuine things. For me, Savage/Roberts beats Hogan/Cena any day of the week. Because those promos/catchphrases are what gets the talent over with the audience. The fans don't care who knows the most moves, they just pay to see their favorites win.
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ddt
Don Corleone
The King of Strings
Posts: 2,015
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Post by ddt on Aug 7, 2007 11:37:36 GMT -5
I don't see how people can't have any interest in someone who is really talented in the ring and always gives a good match, and how they can care about the same talentless guys with the same promos and the same three moves and the same silly catchphrases. Then again, people seem to care about spoiled, good-for-nothing, talentless people like Paris Hilton over honest, hard-working people, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised at how easily people will back superficial things over genuine things. For me, Savage/Roberts beats Hogan/Cena any day of the week. Because those promos/catchphrases are what gets the talent over with the audience. The fans don't care who knows the most moves, they just pay to see their favorites win. Not all of them do. So, if that's what it takes to make it in wrestling, why do people even bother training? Just practice promos and come up with a catchphrase, and you're a star (ahem) 'wrestler'.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 7, 2007 11:50:33 GMT -5
Because those promos/catchphrases are what gets the talent over with the audience. The fans don't care who knows the most moves, they just pay to see their favorites win. Not all of them do. So, if that's what it takes to make it in wrestling, why do people even bother training? Just practice promos and come up with a catchphrase, and you're a star (ahem) 'wrestler'. Knowing all the moves is nice, and helps, but also you need to get people to care about your matches. Simply doing a bunch of moves won't help that cause. You need to have that attachment with the audience like a Cena, Austin or Hogan does. "Workrate" will only take you so far. That's why promos/catchphrases helps, it may cheesy or corny, but that helps the fans to remember you and want to see you win/lose.
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ddt
Don Corleone
The King of Strings
Posts: 2,015
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Post by ddt on Aug 7, 2007 11:58:31 GMT -5
I'll say it again: it's really sad when style is more important (and will get you further) than substance.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 7, 2007 12:01:08 GMT -5
I'll say it again: it's really sad when style is more important (and will get you further) than substance. To each their own, I guess. I don't think it's sad at all. If I could get over in a 5 minute match than some 60-minute match, I'll take it. The "wrestling" aspect has been gone long ago, so you should be used to it by now. Style is necessary, you may think otherwise, but how else would you sell out these venues? The fans can see so much of the same moves, it'll get boring if everyone on the card is doing 30-minute matches without any promos to make you care for them.
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Post by Arthur Digby Stamp on Aug 7, 2007 12:02:43 GMT -5
I'll say it again: it's really sad when style is more important (and will get you further) than substance. Jake Roberts was more style then substance as well. He was amazing in the ring when he was on, but 90% of his appeal was his promos.
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Post by skillz on Aug 7, 2007 12:38:00 GMT -5
I'll say it again: it's really sad when style is more important (and will get you further) than substance. Jake Roberts was more style then substance as well. He was amazing in the ring when he was on, but 90% of his appeal was his promos. Exactly. Roberts didn't wrestle any classic matches in the WWF. His main appeal to the audience was his dark promos, Damian, and most importantly the DDT. No one paid money to see Jake chain wrestle for 30 minutes (and he never did). I disagree completely with the style vs. substance argument, but from my experience, that's just a matter of subjective opinion. A wrestling promotion is only going to push what they feel will draw money, and rightfully so.
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