default
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Blames Everything On Snitsky. Yes, Even THAT.
Posts: 17,056
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Post by default on Oct 24, 2007 22:48:25 GMT -5
Okay, I just read the wiki entry for When World's Collide and noticed the date so I got to thinking...
Basically, everyone blames Bischoff for stealing talent from ECW. Bischoff has always just stated that one man's steal is another man's acquisition.
But looking into this When's World Collide PPV, which took place in November of '94 and was promoted in conjunction with WCW with Bischoff basically securing AAA the PPV slot.
Eddie, Rey, Konnan, Psicosis... all wrestlers that were supposedly "stolen" from ECW, yet all wrestlers who worked that show that Bischoff had his hand in.
I don't buy the "stolen" stuff to begin with, just found that interesting as I never heard anyone bring the dates in question up. Now yeah, Bischoff did let these guys get more seasoning on regular American basis in ECW, but the whole idea of Bischoff watching ECW and just signing up guys he saw then and there... I find these fan's viewpoints a bit idiotic, especially when they consider themselves intelligent fans.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Oct 24, 2007 22:51:06 GMT -5
Bischoff offered guys an opportunity to make more money, and those guys took it which was the smart thing to do for all parties involved. Period.
Some make it sound like he knocked them over the head with a night stick and then threw them in the trunk of a car.
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hollywood
King Koopa
the bullet dodger
The Green Arrow has approved this post.
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Post by hollywood on Oct 24, 2007 22:53:03 GMT -5
I've never agreed with the "stealing" idea. Even trying to say he watched ECW, saw how good they were, and signed the talent equates stealing is idiotic. If anything, it proves that he was a smart promoter who recognized talent.
Also, Bischoff actually paid them.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Oct 25, 2007 0:22:33 GMT -5
Yeah, it always reeked of hypocrisy to me. Big bad WCW was always stealing talent.
Well as a WCW fan I hated when ECW stole Raven and Hardcore Hak back from us. I hated when the WWF stole Jericho and then Benoit, Malenko, Saturn, and Guerrero. They stole Meng when he was Hardcore Champion! It's no wonder WCW went out of business when bullies like Heyman and McMahon had it out for them.
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Post by Tyfo on Oct 25, 2007 0:28:51 GMT -5
Yeah, it always reeked of hypocrisy to me. Big bad WCW was always stealing talent. Well as a WCW fan I hated when ECW stole Raven and Hardcore Hak back from us. I hated when the WWF stole Jericho and then Benoit, Malenko, Saturn, and Guerrero. They stole Meng when he was Hardcore Champion! It's no wonder WCW went out of business when bullies like Heyman and McMahon had it out for them. Meng was just WCW's stupidity hurting them. Why would you be pushing a guy WITHOUT A CONTRACT and actually have him holding a title for you. But at that point, I doubt anyone running things even knew who Meng was and if he had a contract or not.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Oct 25, 2007 0:33:54 GMT -5
If Bischoff stole talent from ECW, wouldn't that mean ECW owned that talent? For such a cutting edge, would-be renegade promotion, I find it odd that they could own talent. Plus, if you can't pay your talent, isn't it fair for them to go elsewhere? When did all the financial problems start? If Heyman owed guys money and couldn't deliver, I think they had every right to take off.
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Johnny
King Koopa
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Post by Johnny on Oct 25, 2007 1:02:53 GMT -5
Mysterio and Juvi and Psicosis only worked like three shows for ECW so they weren't really that used to anything US. And that was back when checks weren't bouncing.
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Post by cuneo77 on Oct 25, 2007 1:06:14 GMT -5
whys it "stealing" when its wcw,eric and ted,but not when vince did it in the 80s? no one forces these guys at gunpoint to sign.
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Johnny
King Koopa
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Vern enjoys Johnny's 3 Humanoid Awards.
Posts: 11,662
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Post by Johnny on Oct 25, 2007 1:08:27 GMT -5
Money is money and I would have gone too. I think people just don't like the fact that a cult fav is now not in the cult.
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longdogga
Don Corleone
All australian look like this ^^^
Posts: 1,425
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Post by longdogga on Oct 25, 2007 1:48:22 GMT -5
it's like when two people hook up and outsiders looking in say well julie shouldn't have hooked up with mike cause she knew john liked her.
who gives a flying f*** about john.
this post was brought to you by the just see if i was kidding foundation......
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Oct 25, 2007 1:52:16 GMT -5
I don't think it's stealing Talent, but then some people swear Vince is Evil just because he had the common sense to pick good wrestlers out of hte huge variety of other territories at the time.
I think people were harder on Bischoff since he took so many guys from the same company just as they were getting over, in such a quick span of time.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Oct 25, 2007 10:17:28 GMT -5
I just don't like Bischoff because he legit considers ECW to have been bush league wrestling. And as a fan of ECW, I'm obviously going to disagree with that. Guys leaving for more money, hey, they gotta do what they gotta do. But with the exception of most of the cruiserweights and maybe Lance Storm and Raven, a lot of the guys who jumped had terrible gimmicks when they got to WCW, and never got the same kind of push they got in ECW.
Everyone has this mentality that your career means nothing unless you're on American broadcast television, which I've always thought was bunk. Since when did rating measure the quality of a career?
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hollywood
King Koopa
the bullet dodger
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Post by hollywood on Oct 25, 2007 12:15:37 GMT -5
I just don't like Bischoff because he legit considers ECW to have been bush league wrestling. And as a fan of ECW, I'm obviously going to disagree with that. Guys leaving for more money, hey, they gotta do what they gotta do. But with the exception of most of the cruiserweights and maybe Lance Storm and Raven, a lot of the guys who jumped had terrible gimmicks when they got to WCW, and never got the same kind of push they got in ECW. I'm not sure Bischoff ever called ECW "bush league" except in promos building toward the original ONS, which was just him playing a role to help build the PPV. While the ECW guys that appeared on WCW may have been given bad gimmicks (Sandman) or lack thereof (Mikey Whipwreck), he still gave them stable jobs with actual paychecks--something ECW wasn't able to do. At the end of the day, being a jobber with money to feed your family is still far better than being a main eventer with an empty wallet. And this is coming from a guy who loved ECW. Now this I completely agree with. Guys like Bryan Danielson and Chris Hero have literally traveled the globe and wrestled all over the world, but they've never set foot on a mainstream media television (except for the odd Velocity match here and there). I think that's pretty damn sucessful, even if their pockets aren't lined with as many dollar bills as WWE stars.
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Post by humorousled on Oct 25, 2007 14:18:32 GMT -5
There is no such thing as stealing tallent. This is just propoganda created by Heyman to make it look like that Bischoff was trying to destroy ECW and WWE. Bischoff just offered performers better deals than they were getting elsewhere. It is just like any other line of work where anyone would go to work where they are getting the better deal. All of us are trying to work for the best possible deal for ourselves. Who would want to work where they are getting paid much less than elsewhere? The "you sold out" chants that some performers got from WWE fans (especially at MSG or the Tri-State area) is just stupid and shows that those fans don't know anything about wrestling except the WWE product.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
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Post by Chainsaw on Oct 25, 2007 14:19:55 GMT -5
The "you sold out" chants that some performers got from WWE fans (especially at MSG or the Tri-State area) is just stupid and shows that those fans don't know anything about wrestling except the WWE product. That last statement just broke my brain.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Oct 25, 2007 14:31:36 GMT -5
Bischoff offered guys an opportunity to make more money, and those guys took it which was the smart thing to do for all parties involved. Period. Some make it sound like he knocked them over the head with a night stick and then threw them in the trunk of a car. yeah I agree with this dude it's a business about money. WCW gave these guys the platform in the united states. Plus Bischoff could scout great wrestling talent. vince did the same thing with WWF except WWWF was already established.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Oct 25, 2007 14:32:54 GMT -5
Bischoff offered guys an opportunity to make more money, and those guys took it which was the smart thing to do for all parties involved. Period. Some make it sound like he knocked them over the head with a night stick and then threw them in the trunk of a car. yeah I agree with this dude it's a business about money. WCW gave these guys the platform in the united states. Plus Bischoff could scout great wrestling talent. vince did the same thing with WWF except WWWF was already established. Agreed, it's not like Bischoff or Vince kidnapped these guys, they wanted go there and make more money to take care of their families, can't fault them for that.
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Post by robferatu on Oct 25, 2007 14:56:23 GMT -5
Bischoff offered guys an opportunity to make more money, and those guys took it which was the smart thing to do for all parties involved. Period. Some make it sound like he knocked them over the head with a night stick and then threw them in the trunk of a car. That's basically what it was. These guys wanted more money and more exposure. You can't blame them for that. Eric was smart, more smart then Vince at the time. Cause I'm sure if Vince could go back and do it he would have.
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Post by thestinger on Oct 25, 2007 15:57:23 GMT -5
Plus, if you can't pay your talent, isn't it fair for them to go elsewhere? When did all the financial problems start? If Heyman owed guys money and couldn't deliver, I think they had every right to take off. Quoted For Truth. There's ECW fans that still hate Mike Awesome for leaving when he was ECW champion. The guy hadn't been paid for five months! I bet not a single one of those guys who hate Mike would be willing to work for free out of loyalty to your employer. Raise your hand if you would find another job after a paycheck bounced!
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Post by skillz on Oct 25, 2007 16:09:47 GMT -5
Bischoff seems to be unfairly bashed a lot. He was far from perfect, but what he did for WCW, especially from 1996-1998 was outstanding.
Stealing talent is just a ridiculous phrase. If I left my job for another job, then the company I went to didn't "steal" me. They offered me a deal and I accepted. That's life.
The other argument I hate is when people say "all WCW did was steal WWF stars". BS, but that's another topic.
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