|
Post by bonedaddycool on Jan 18, 2008 15:37:47 GMT -5
Punk is CRAZY over. Lashley got his push cause he is a big muscular freak. His matches are boring. He can't cut a promo to save his life. Yet he'll always be pushed as Vince loves the guy.
|
|
|
Post by Branimal on Jan 18, 2008 15:40:03 GMT -5
I really WANT to see this fued. With Punk as the heel especially. He plays the sneaky heel so good. It could definitely work with heel lashley too. He never lost HIS world title, and he wants it back. I think they could have a fine series of matches, and help to build each other. ECW needs a name guy, and lashley could be that guy. I'd like to see that too. Only, I'm dieing to see a WWE heel version of CM Punk. I want to see what he can bring to the table. I was disappointed when they turned him last year when he became a part of The New Breed..and then for some reason, turned him back. Made no sense to me.
|
|
|
Post by bshadye413 on Jan 18, 2008 15:46:01 GMT -5
the reason i hate lashley is simple. When he was on Smackdown, i didnt really care either way about him. Then all of a sudden hes pushed into the main event of ECW, interrupting what could/should have been a great story of RVD returning and getting his revenge against Big Show. Instead that story went nowhere and Lashley became champion. Then ECW became the Bobby Lashley show.
I dont really care either way about CM Punk. Personally I wish they'd give the belt back to Morrison, but that doesnt seem likely anytime soon.
|
|
Fundertaker
El Dandy
Hideo Kojima should direct every ending ever!
Posts: 8,940
|
Post by Fundertaker on Jan 18, 2008 15:47:43 GMT -5
Maybe because he never turned. He was always pushed as a "lone wolf", and a guy that respects the original ECW and was respected by its members. In fact, in his time in the New Breed the only thing he did was trying to split the group by telling the members not named Elijah Burke that they were better than him.
|
|
|
Post by Skeleton Crew on Jan 18, 2008 15:59:59 GMT -5
No, it's more like the IWC is biased against people who are SHOVED down our throats for no real reason than being BIG. CM Punk came in to ECW and had vignettes, yes. Well, so did The Highlanders and look where they are. CM Punk came into the WWE, probably without the WWE having any idea of how big he'd be. The fans knew his past work, saw him in the ring, loved his style, his promos, and is one of the few examples of the WWE HAVING to appease the fans because someone was getting so over with them on his OWN. He was pushed BECAUSE of the fans reactions. Bobby Lashley came in and was pushed to the top and the fans couldn't careless. We saw him wrestle, we saw him talk, NOTHING TO LIKE. Bobby Lashley was pushed to GET the fans to like him. It worked for the common fan ( to an extent, many common fans don't like him either because he's really not anywhere near ready to be pushed so hard), but this scenario will never work for the IWC. So to recap: CM Punk came in and the fans grew to love him. Lashely came in and the fans were being forced to love him. No one is shoved down your throat. If you don't like them, don't watch. Vince McMahon isn't tying you down in a chair and forcing you to watch the product. Plus Punk gets a good reaction, but I'd say Lashley's reactions are pretty comparable if judging from the crowds. The dude seemed pretty over before he got hurt. Whether that means Lashley's reactions are underrated by the IWC, or Punk's reactions are overrated, I don't know. Maybe a little of both. Plus, I wouldn't consider Punk "big" yet. HHH is big. Cena is big. Punk is doing alright in what is essentially a glorified midcard role. Plus even with Smackdown "Superstars" being added to the weekly ECW program The Ratings are about the same as when Lashley was champ.
|
|
|
Post by dh03grad on Jan 18, 2008 16:29:53 GMT -5
Why is it that fans on this board (and other message boards) are so happy to have CM Punk as the ECW champion and hated having Lashley as the champion. Don't get me wrong, I think both guys bring a lot to the table and have great potential. However, when Lashley won the title, all I remember reading was how he had no character and was boring. That may be true, but he had just as much character as Punk currently does. However, most fans around here can't seem to get enough of Punk. In fact, when Lashley was the ECW champion, the title was actually considered a world title. Now, with the beloved CM Punk as the champ, the title is slightly below the U.S. title in terms of importance. I know that Punk had great matches in the past on the independent circuit but that and 75 cents will get him a cup of coffee. The same people who talk about Punk's "greatness" on that circuit also down play Lashley's success as an amateur wrestling champion as being "in the past and a non issue." I would go as far as to say that the ONLY CM Punk match that I enjoyed in WWE was his match with John Morrison where he won the title, and if you really think about it, that was more Morrison putting on a hell of a show to save his push, after he had gotten suspended. To make a long story short, how is Punk better than Lashley? Is it just the IWC's need to think that every big wrestler is an untalented hoss while every smaller wrestler is the second coming of Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart? You pretty much answered your own question. The IWC is biased against all big wrestlers. Because Vince likes to push big guys, pretty much no big guys are given a chance. I remember people crapting on Umaga after he only had like one match. Also, Punk is the new IWC golden boy, like He Who Must Not Be Named. Therefore it's okay to have a double standard where Punk's past accomplishments count, while Lashley's don't. What past accomplishments? Should we exhalt Lashley for winning the Army competitions?
|
|
|
Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Jan 18, 2008 16:39:41 GMT -5
I'd bring up the fact that Lashley had a really, really good feud with Finlay around the time of Wrestlemania 23...but I'd imagine the response would be "IT WAZ ALL FINLAY!!!"
|
|
|
Post by primetime110 on Jan 18, 2008 16:40:52 GMT -5
Punk isn't even in the top 10 for face reactions. His reactions are not that big from the crowds. I guess its because Smackdown is taped before ECW. Thats the excuse I hear. He got a pretty damn loud reaction during his segment with Edge just this past Tuesday. Edge got Cena cheered as well when it was the "in" thing to boo Cena. Just listen to the reaction (or non-reaction) when Edge announces Punk, Punk got cheered during the interaction with Edge. Mainley because the way Edge let Punk get in some jabs at him without Edge trying to be the "cool" heel and make comebacks to put down Punk (see morrison-miz). Wasn't SS 06 in Punks hometown?
|
|
|
Post by RatedRKoffee on Jan 18, 2008 16:42:45 GMT -5
It didn't help that when Lashley was champ the show was just flat out awful. I doubt that we would be singing the praises of Punk if he was wrestling Test and Bob Holly every week.
|
|
|
Post by shiranui on Jan 18, 2008 16:57:13 GMT -5
Wasn't SS 06 in Punks hometown? I think it was in Philadelphia... but who cares, CM Punk only got cheered there because Philadelphia is "smark country", right?
|
|
|
Post by primetime110 on Jan 18, 2008 17:13:02 GMT -5
Wasn't SS 06 in Punks hometown? I think it was in Philadelphia... but who cares, CM Punk only got cheered there because Philadelphia is "smark country", right? Philly. ROH is there alot I believe. If Punk is loved by so many as people claim, Why are ECW ratings so low? Why does he get so many lukewarm receptions? He isn't even in the top 10 for face pops. In no order 1. HHH 2. HBK 3. Jeff Hardy 4. Matt Hardy 5. Undertaker 6. Y2J 7. Batisia 8. Finley 9. Rey 10. Cena Thats just the faces. Heels/Faces that better reactions 1. Edge 2. MVP 3. Orton 4. JBL 5. Vince 6. Kane 7. Ric Flair 8. Umaga So he gets a big pop for 1 night at Survivor Series in a city where he wrestled quite a bit for ROH and now people think everyone loves him.
|
|
EJS
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Posts: 18,857
|
Post by EJS on Jan 18, 2008 17:14:25 GMT -5
Lashley spent the whole time in ECW squashing everyone and rarely defending his title on ECW, maybe?
I liked Lashley on Smackdown. He can go in the ring, and he had competitive matches with Finlay and Kennedy. Once December to Dismember rolled around, he was mostly a squash machine (though I recall liking his match with RVD sometime in January).
|
|
|
Post by The Peoples Elbow on Jan 18, 2008 17:15:22 GMT -5
I can see Lashley going back to ecw. Have punk vs Lashley at mania. Would be good. Have Lashley win get squashed HTM/Warrior style. Fixed to reflect actual wish.
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jan 18, 2008 17:27:05 GMT -5
Nothing against Lashley, for me, it was just that ECW was the Lashley Show. The ECW around his waist was treated as if it were Lashley's property, with nobody else on the show's roster even looking like a threat.
Punk's had the opposite problem. He's had non-finishes and weak victories his whole reign.
Two good talents booked poorly, IMO.
|
|
|
Post by Bobafett on Jan 18, 2008 17:35:53 GMT -5
I think because Punk actually defends it on ECW tv and not on Raw every second week
|
|
|
Post by The Thread Barbi on Jan 18, 2008 17:47:50 GMT -5
I'm not bothered by either, to be honest. As I've said before, even having watched his 'classics' in ROH, CM Punk hasn't impressed me thaaat much. I'd rate Owen Hart, Brian Pillman and a host of others above him.
As for Lashley...well, when I'm left craving for Ahmed Johnson instead, it can give you an idea of what I think of him.
|
|
|
Post by Andrew is Good on Jan 18, 2008 21:46:54 GMT -5
I didn't read the whole thread, though it was said before here. Lashley was forced upon the belt, while Punk was built to it. Not only that, but it was a 4 month feud between Punk and Morrison, with Punk almost getting the belt each time, but somehow missed his chance. And then, he finally won the belt after working so hard.
Bobby Lashley had potential to be a good World Champion, but he needed to be built better.
|
|
|
Post by The Genesis of KoOS on Jan 18, 2008 22:38:05 GMT -5
I think it was in Philadelphia... but who cares, CM Punk only got cheered there because Philadelphia is "smark country", right? Philly. ROH is there alot I believe. If Punk is loved by so many as people claim, Why are ECW ratings so low? Why does he get so many lukewarm receptions? He isn't even in the top 10 for face pops. In no order 1. HHH 2. HBK 3. Jeff Hardy 4. Matt Hardy 5. Undertaker 6. Y2J 7. Batisia 8. Finley 9. Rey 10. Cena Thats just the faces. Heels/Faces that better reactions 1. Edge 2. MVP 3. Orton 4. JBL 5. Vince 6. Kane 7. Ric Flair 8. Umaga So he gets a big pop for 1 night at Survivor Series in a city where he wrestled quite a bit for ROH and now people think everyone loves him. Umaga gets NO reaction, seriously are you deaf? Y2J hasn't gotten a big reaction since he re-debuted so that's a no. Kane doesn't really get that big of a reaction, neither does Finlay. For someone who is on the least watched show, Punk is doing a pretty damn good job of getting fan support.
|
|
|
Post by Gillberg: 0-175 on Jan 18, 2008 23:54:02 GMT -5
OK, so your saying CM Punk is only over because of the Hammerstein crowd and the Survivor Series '06 crowd, as if you proving me wrong. You're just proving what I said. The Hammerstein crowd popped big for CM Punk because they were a fan of his previous work. The common WWE fan sees this and goes "Look at this reaction! We gotta love him!". So they pop too. What they saw was a NATURAL fan reaction, which trust me, you can tell, and that's why he got so over. And than bringing up Survivor Series...where CM Punk is standing in the ring with Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Jeff Hardy, and Matt Hardy (wow look at that, all main event fan favorites) and the fans INTERRUPT Triple H to chant "CM PUNK". Not in the WWE's wildest dreams could they MANUFACTURE something like that. You DON'T see reactions like that for people who the fans are "taught" to love. The reactions CM Punk got, you won't see for anyone else in a LONG time because you can't MAKE something like that happen. And give me a break about the whole "you're not forced to watch" bullcrap that gets tossed around the board. We're all on this forum to praise/complain, otherwise we wouldn't be the dumbasses who make wrestling a big part of our life. We'd just be a regular common fan. As someone who is a huge wrestling fan, I absolutely love the WWE, but the Lashley pushing was shoved down our throats. Celebrity crap is all over the news, it's shoved in our face. Do you shun what's going on in the news because of certain aspects you'd rather be without? I don't think anyone is saying that (or at least I wasn't). I'm just saying it was SMART ASS BOOKING to have him debut in a part of the country where it's most likely he'll be known, and therefore get a reaction. It made him legit and it made his transition to WWE superstar easier for him. I'm sure he could have gotten over on his own (maybe not, he hasn't had much promo time really), but to say that Hammerstein did nothing for him is bullshit. I really give whomever credit to bring him up in the old ECW stomping grounds, where the fans would know who he is. Was that Paulie's work? Otherwise I could see Punk as hit or miss. But then again, so is everyone else they've been bringing in. The Major Brothers? Snitsky? Come on, I take shits with more personality than those guys. Snitsky at least had a personality, but they got rid of it too just like his awesome goatee/receding hair line. But Lashley? I liked him when they were pushing him as the black Goldberg. But now that he's soft spoken, hard hitting...I can't take him. He's like Mike Tyson without the crazy. If you talk to Iron Mike, he doesn't sound too intimidating.
|
|
|
Post by primetime110 on Jan 19, 2008 0:06:17 GMT -5
Philly. ROH is there alot I believe. If Punk is loved by so many as people claim, Why are ECW ratings so low? Why does he get so many lukewarm receptions? He isn't even in the top 10 for face pops. In no order 1. HHH 2. HBK 3. Jeff Hardy 4. Matt Hardy 5. Undertaker 6. Y2J 7. Batisia 8. Finley 9. Rey 10. Cena Thats just the faces. Heels/Faces that better reactions 1. Edge 2. MVP 3. Orton 4. JBL 5. Vince 6. Kane 7. Ric Flair 8. Umaga So he gets a big pop for 1 night at Survivor Series in a city where he wrestled quite a bit for ROH and now people think everyone loves him. Umaga gets NO reaction, seriously are you deaf? Y2J hasn't gotten a big reaction since he re-debuted so that's a no. Kane doesn't really get that big of a reaction, neither does Finlay. For someone who is on the least watched show, Punk is doing a pretty damn good job of getting fan support. They get a better reaction than Punk. I must have been deaf tonight as well has Punk got a little reaction on Smackdown. Or I must be deaf everytime Punk comes out because I don't hear the reaction and love that the ROH followers want everyone to believe. Even the names you marked off the list punk is still behind quite a few wrestlers. This guy has been hyped to no end by SOME of the IWC and the hardcore ROH fans. Its the same deal with Joe on the TNA board.
|
|