Punk, Lashley, and the ECW Title...

[don]

Why is it that fans on this board (and other message boards) are so happy to have CM Punk as the ECW champion and hated having Lashley as the champion. Don't get me wrong, I think both guys bring a lot to the table and have great potential.

However, when Lashley won the title, all I remember reading was how he had no character and was boring. That may be true, but he had just as much character as Punk currently does. However, most fans around here can't seem to get enough of Punk. In fact, when Lashley was the ECW champion, the title was actually considered a world title. Now, with the beloved CM Punk as the champ, the title is slightly below the U.S. title in terms of importance.

I know that Punk had great matches in the past on the independent circuit but that and 75 cents will get him a cup of coffee. The same people who talk about Punk's "greatness" on that circuit also down play Lashley's success as an amateur wrestling champion as being "in the past and a non issue." I would go as far as to say that the ONLY CM Punk match that I enjoyed in WWE was his match with John Morrison where he won the title, and if you really think about it, that was more Morrison putting on a hell of a show to save his push, after he had gotten suspended.

To make a long story short, how is Punk better than Lashley? Is it just the IWC's need to think that every big wrestler is an untalented hoss while every smaller wrestler is the second coming of Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart?

[Hiroshi Hase]

I don't think it was Morrison putting on a show to save his push as I think his push was safe as one of the guys in Creative is pretty high on him, Dave Lagana I think his name is.

[Mac]

Punks better than Lashley because people have at least seen Punk perform at a high level (albeit the Indys) and hes got some sort of natural charisma that Lashley is lacking. Lashley is a gigantic overblown throwback musclehead whos boring to watch and embarassing to listen to. So WWE decided since Lashley lacks charisma, any great talent or fan support we're going to push him to the moon anyway and FORCE people to like him. It didnt really work.

[Tyfo]

Bobby Lashley was a very good amateur wrestler, and that can't be taken away from him. However, that background has not translated at ALL to the Pro's. The only time I can recall him really using anything resembling his wrestling background was in the match he had with Chris Benoit on the night of the draft last year.

Theres also the fact that Lashley was basically forced upon the ECW title for no real reason. He was a SD midcard guy basically, and all of a sudden he jumps to ECW and a few weeks later is ECW Champion. Even though, as the storyline was going, it should have been Rob Van Dam winning the title, they had built that up for months by the time December to Dismember came along. But Lashley was just thrown in last minute and hot shotted to the title.

CM Punk was built up on ECW tv for a year before he became champion. Also, there is the fact that most of us have seen with our own eyes that CM Punk can be a GREAT professional wrestler. But we have NOT seen the fact that Bobby Lashley can be a great professional wrestler. Whether WWE admits it or not, CM Punk by far has the better PRO WRESTLING resume.

I'm not saying that Lashley is bad or anything. It's just that at the time he won the title, he was basically being forced onto the fans and then forced farther down our throats with the McMahon feud that put him all over Raw and ECW, sometimes Smackdown to. Punk came in, spent a year getting over with the fans before he won the title.

Theres also the promo thing. Lashley should be nowhere near a microphone, ever. His voice is possibly the most un-intimidating that I have ever heard. He also just sounds terrible trying to be tough and cut a promo. He needs to do his talking in the ring and NEVER on the mic. While Punk has had many great promos outside of WWE. He even had really good ones during his intro vignettes to ECW. But since then he hasn't really gotten a lot of promo time, but has done the best with what he has gotten.

[krazysane]

I can see Lashley going back to ecw. Have punk vs Lashley at mania. Would be good. Have Lashley win.

[primetime110]

tyfo85 said:

Bobby Lashley was a very good amateur wrestler, and that can't be taken away from him. However, that background has not translated at ALL to the Pro's. The only time I can recall him really using anything resembling his wrestling background was in the match he had with Chris Benoit on the night of the draft last year.

Theres also the fact that Lashley was basically forced upon the ECW title for no real reason. He was a SD midcard guy basically, and all of a sudden he jumps to ECW and a few weeks later is ECW Champion. Even though, as the storyline was going, it should have been Rob Van Dam winning the title, they had built that up for months by the time December to Dismember came along. But Lashley was just thrown in last minute and hot shotted to the title.

CM Punk was built up on ECW tv for a year before he became champion. Also, there is the fact that most of us have seen with our own eyes that CM Punk can be a GREAT professional wrestler. But we have NOT seen the fact that Bobby Lashley can be a great professional wrestler. Whether WWE admits it or not, CM Punk by far has the better PRO WRESTLING resume.

I'm not saying that Lashley is bad or anything. It's just that at the time he won the title, he was basically being forced onto the fans and then forced farther down our throats with the McMahon feud that put him all over Raw and ECW, sometimes Smackdown to. Punk came in, spent a year getting over with the fans before he won the title.

Theres also the promo thing. Lashley should be nowhere near a microphone, ever. His voice is possibly the most un-intimidating that I have ever heard. He also just sounds terrible trying to be tough and cut a promo. He needs to do his talking in the ring and NEVER on the mic. While Punk has had many great promos outside of WWE. He even had really good ones during his intro vignettes to ECW. But since then he hasn't really gotten a lot of promo time, but has done the best with what he has gotten.

You mean the same intro vignettes where he said the samething every week for like 5 weeks in a row?

Once again Punk had his chance to cut an "awesome promo" this week on the cutting Edge.......But didn't. Its getting to the point where the writers can't be blame.

How come Edge, HHH, HBK, and sometimes Kenndey can cut great promos every week with writers but Punk cannot?

So if it is the writers holding punk back from cutting awesome promos. Why can't Lashley fans say it was the writers holding him back?

Anyway, Hopefully Big Show will be put on ECW to give them a shot in the arm.

[Joekishi]

I really WANT to see this fued.

With Punk as the heel especially. He plays the sneaky heel so good.

It could definitely work with heel lashley too.

He never lost HIS world title, and he wants it back.

I think they could have a fine series of matches, and help to build each other. ECW needs a name guy, and lashley could be that guy.

[bindergang]

Keep Lashley off of ECW please.

I enjoy seeing Punk, Morrison, Benjamin, Burke, Striker, etc. They're building them all up nicely.

Last thing we need if for Lashley come to ECW, face the whole roster in one single match, and "somehow" overcome the odds and beat 10 men at once.

His fault or not, they push him too much and at least on Raw and Smackdown! they're are other big stars to revolve around as well. When Lashley was on ECW, it was the Bobby Lashley show.

While CM Punk may not be having the most memorable title reign ever, he does a hell of a job of putting over who he's facing, often looking like the weaker guy who always pulls through in the end. Lashley wasn't even booked to put anyone over, which would have been huge for whoever beat him. He was just STRIPPED of the title.

[Cypress]

Punk is a better worker, has better matches and is a much better speaker, other than that yeah i dont see how he's better.


Lashley has zero charisma, cant talk to save his life, and is pretty average in the ring considering his college wrestling credential.Outside of his match with Cena i cant recall a 3 star match hes ever had.

[Cypress]

primetime110 said:

tyfo85 said:

Bobby Lashley was a very good amateur wrestler, and that can't be taken away from him. However, that background has not translated at ALL to the Pro's. The only time I can recall him really using anything resembling his wrestling background was in the match he had with Chris Benoit on the night of the draft last year.

Theres also the fact that Lashley was basically forced upon the ECW title for no real reason. He was a SD midcard guy basically, and all of a sudden he jumps to ECW and a few weeks later is ECW Champion. Even though, as the storyline was going, it should have been Rob Van Dam winning the title, they had built that up for months by the time December to Dismember came along. But Lashley was just thrown in last minute and hot shotted to the title.

CM Punk was built up on ECW tv for a year before he became champion. Also, there is the fact that most of us have seen with our own eyes that CM Punk can be a GREAT professional wrestler. But we have NOT seen the fact that Bobby Lashley can be a great professional wrestler. Whether WWE admits it or not, CM Punk by far has the better PRO WRESTLING resume.

I'm not saying that Lashley is bad or anything. It's just that at the time he won the title, he was basically being forced onto the fans and then forced farther down our throats with the McMahon feud that put him all over Raw and ECW, sometimes Smackdown to. Punk came in, spent a year getting over with the fans before he won the title.

Theres also the promo thing. Lashley should be nowhere near a microphone, ever. His voice is possibly the most un-intimidating that I have ever heard. He also just sounds terrible trying to be tough and cut a promo. He needs to do his talking in the ring and NEVER on the mic. While Punk has had many great promos outside of WWE. He even had really good ones during his intro vignettes to ECW. But since then he hasn't really gotten a lot of promo time, but has done the best with what he has gotten.

You mean the same intro vignettes where he said the samething every week for like 5 weeks in a row?

Once again Punk had his chance to cut an "awesome promo" this week on the cutting Edge.......But didn't. Its getting to the point where the writers can't be blame.

How come Edge, HHH, HBK, and sometimes Kenndey can cut great promos every week with writers but Punk cannot?

So if it is the writers holding punk back from cutting awesome promos. Why can't Lashley fans say it was the writers holding him back?

Anyway, Hopefully Big Show will be put on ECW to give them a shot in the arm.

thats your opinion, i thought the Punk promo and interaction with edge was great

[TheMediocreWarrior]

don said:

Why is it that fans on this board (and other message boards) are so happy to have CM Punk as the ECW champion and hated having Lashley as the champion. Don't get me wrong, I think both guys bring a lot to the table and have great potential.

However, when Lashley won the title, all I remember reading was how he had no character and was boring. That may be true, but he had just as much character as Punk currently does. However, most fans around here can't seem to get enough of Punk. In fact, when Lashley was the ECW champion, the title was actually considered a world title. Now, with the beloved CM Punk as the champ, the title is slightly below the U.S. title in terms of importance.

I know that Punk had great matches in the past on the independent circuit but that and 75 cents will get him a cup of coffee. The same people who talk about Punk's "greatness" on that circuit also down play Lashley's success as an amateur wrestling champion as being "in the past and a non issue." I would go as far as to say that the ONLY CM Punk match that I enjoyed in WWE was his match with John Morrison where he won the title, and if you really think about it, that was more Morrison putting on a hell of a show to save his push, after he had gotten suspended.

To make a long story short, how is Punk better than Lashley? Is it just the IWC's need to think that every big wrestler is an untalented hoss while every smaller wrestler is the second coming of Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart?

You pretty much answered your own question. The IWC is biased against all big wrestlers. Because Vince likes to push big guys, pretty much no big guys are given a chance. I remember people shitting on Umaga after he only had like one match.

Also, Punk is the new IWC golden boy, like He Who Must Not Be Named. Therefore it's okay to have a double standard where Punk's past accomplishments count, while Lashley's don't.

[Cypress]

by that same token because he WAS the IWC golden boy, people will crap on Punk no matter what he does and try to discredit him at every opportunity.

[bindergang]

hulkamania85 said:

don said:

Why is it that fans on this board (and other message boards) are so happy to have CM Punk as the ECW champion and hated having Lashley as the champion. Don't get me wrong, I think both guys bring a lot to the table and have great potential.

However, when Lashley won the title, all I remember reading was how he had no character and was boring. That may be true, but he had just as much character as Punk currently does. However, most fans around here can't seem to get enough of Punk. In fact, when Lashley was the ECW champion, the title was actually considered a world title. Now, with the beloved CM Punk as the champ, the title is slightly below the U.S. title in terms of importance.

I know that Punk had great matches in the past on the independent circuit but that and 75 cents will get him a cup of coffee. The same people who talk about Punk's "greatness" on that circuit also down play Lashley's success as an amateur wrestling champion as being "in the past and a non issue." I would go as far as to say that the ONLY CM Punk match that I enjoyed in WWE was his match with John Morrison where he won the title, and if you really think about it, that was more Morrison putting on a hell of a show to save his push, after he had gotten suspended.

To make a long story short, how is Punk better than Lashley? Is it just the IWC's need to think that every big wrestler is an untalented hoss while every smaller wrestler is the second coming of Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart?

You pretty much answered your own question. The IWC is biased against all big wrestlers. Because Vince likes to push big guys, pretty much no big guys are given a chance. I remember people crapting on Umaga after he only had like one match.

Also, Punk is the new IWC golden boy, like He Who Must Not Be Named. Therefore it's okay to have a double standard where Punk's past accomplishments count, while Lashley's don't.

No, it's more like the IWC is biased against people who are SHOVED down our throats for no real reason than being BIG.

CM Punk came in to ECW and had vignettes, yes. Well, so did The Highlanders and look where they are. CM Punk came into the WWE, probably without the WWE having any idea of how big he'd be. The fans knew his past work, saw him in the ring, loved his style, his promos, and is one of the few examples of the WWE HAVING to appease the fans because someone was getting so over with them on his OWN. He was pushed BECAUSE of the fans reactions.

Bobby Lashley came in and was pushed to the top and the fans couldn't careless. We saw him wrestle, we saw him talk, NOTHING TO LIKE. Bobby Lashley was pushed to GET the fans to like him. It worked for the common fan ( to an extent, many common fans don't like him either because he's really not anywhere near ready to be pushed so hard), but this scenario will never work for the IWC.

So to recap: CM Punk came in and the fans grew to love him. Lashely came in and the fans were being forced to love him.

[Gillberg: 0-175]

I'm no critic, and I'm certainly no Punk jerk-offer, but he is better than Lashley. Hands down. Maybe it's cause I come from a time where guys with unique looks got over instead of generic bald roided out freaks. If Lashley put something special to the table, maybe I'd like him. But he doesn't. With Punk you get this guy who looks like he's ready for a fight, looks like he can display an ass load of emotion (compared to the only one emotion a hoss can have...look at Kane), and has awesome moves.

Look in wrestling is everything. Punk just looks cool. Like he's a guy I'd either be a buddy with or a guy I would kick his ass for being swarmy. Lashley doesn't give me that. All I see in him is a smiley bodybuilder. I can't get behind that. Just like Bryan Danielson. I can't get behind a guy who looks blander than sliced bread and smiles all the time, and even at his most aggressive doesn't look like a threat. I'm sorry. Maybe I'm just a bad wrestling fan.

[Gillberg: 0-175]

bindergang said:

hulkamania85 said:

You pretty much answered your own question. The IWC is biased against all big wrestlers. Because Vince likes to push big guys, pretty much no big guys are given a chance. I remember people crapting on Umaga after he only had like one match.

Also, Punk is the new IWC golden boy, like He Who Must Not Be Named. Therefore it's okay to have a double standard where Punk's past accomplishments count, while Lashley's don't.

No, it's more like the IWC is biased against people who are SHOVED down our throats for no real reason than being BIG.

CM Punk came in to ECW and had vignettes, yes. Well, so did The Highlanders and look where they are. CM Punk came into the WWE, probably without the WWE having any idea of how big he'd be. The fans knew his past work, saw him in the ring, loved his style, his promos, and is one of the few examples of the WWE HAVING to appease the fans because someone was getting so over with them on his OWN. He was pushed BECAUSE of the fans reactions.

Bobby Lashley came in and was pushed to the top and the fans couldn't careless. We saw him wrestle, we saw him talk, NOTHING TO LIKE. Bobby Lashley was pushed to GET the fans to like him. It worked for the common fan ( to an extent, many common fans don't like him either because he's really not anywhere near ready to be pushed so hard), but this scenario will never work for the IWC.

So to recap: CM Punk came in and the fans grew to love him. Lashely came in and the fans were being forced to love him.

Oh, I would greatly argue that if it werent for his Hammerstein Ballroom debut Punk wouldn't be where he's at now.

[TheMediocreWarrior]

bindergang said:

hulkamania85 said:

You pretty much answered your own question. The IWC is biased against all big wrestlers. Because Vince likes to push big guys, pretty much no big guys are given a chance. I remember people crapting on Umaga after he only had like one match.

Also, Punk is the new IWC golden boy, like He Who Must Not Be Named. Therefore it's okay to have a double standard where Punk's past accomplishments count, while Lashley's don't.

No, it's more like the IWC is biased against people who are SHOVED down our throats for no real reason than being BIG.

CM Punk came in to ECW and had vignettes, yes. Well, so did The Highlanders and look where they are. CM Punk came into the WWE, probably without the WWE having any idea of how big he'd be. The fans knew his past work, saw him in the ring, loved his style, his promos, and is one of the few examples of the WWE HAVING to appease the fans because someone was getting so over with them on his OWN. He was pushed BECAUSE of the fans reactions.

Bobby Lashley came in and was pushed to the top and the fans couldn't careless. We saw him wrestle, we saw him talk, NOTHING TO LIKE. Bobby Lashley was pushed to GET the fans to like him. It worked for the common fan ( to an extent, many common fans don't like him either because he's really not anywhere near ready to be pushed so hard), but this scenario will never work for the IWC.

So to recap: CM Punk came in and the fans grew to love him. Lashely came in and the fans were being forced to love him.

No one is shoved down your throat. If you don't like them, don't watch. Vince McMahon isn't tying you down in a chair and forcing you to watch the product.

Plus Punk gets a good reaction, but I'd say Lashley's reactions are pretty comparable if judging from the crowds. The dude seemed pretty over before he got hurt. Whether that means Lashley's reactions are underrated by the IWC, or Punk's reactions are overrated, I don't know. Maybe a little of both.

Plus, I wouldn't consider Punk "big" yet. HHH is big. Cena is big. Punk is doing alright in what is essentially a glorified midcard role.

[Arthur Digby Stamp]

doinksdoodoo said:

bindergang said:

No, it's more like the IWC is biased against people who are SHOVED down our throats for no real reason than being BIG.

CM Punk came in to ECW and had vignettes, yes. Well, so did The Highlanders and look where they are. CM Punk came into the WWE, probably without the WWE having any idea of how big he'd be. The fans knew his past work, saw him in the ring, loved his style, his promos, and is one of the few examples of the WWE HAVING to appease the fans because someone was getting so over with them on his OWN. He was pushed BECAUSE of the fans reactions.

Bobby Lashley came in and was pushed to the top and the fans couldn't careless. We saw him wrestle, we saw him talk, NOTHING TO LIKE. Bobby Lashley was pushed to GET the fans to like him. It worked for the common fan ( to an extent, many common fans don't like him either because he's really not anywhere near ready to be pushed so hard), but this scenario will never work for the IWC.

So to recap: CM Punk came in and the fans grew to love him. Lashely came in and the fans were being forced to love him.

Oh, I would greatly argue that if it werent for his Hammerstein Ballroom debut Punk wouldn't be where he's at now.

Yeah, that Hammerstein ballroom debut, and the reaction he got at Survivor Series 2006 helped boost his status a ton.

[primetime110]

bindergang said:

hulkamania85 said:

You pretty much answered your own question. The IWC is biased against all big wrestlers. Because Vince likes to push big guys, pretty much no big guys are given a chance. I remember people crapting on Umaga after he only had like one match.

Also, Punk is the new IWC golden boy, like He Who Must Not Be Named. Therefore it's okay to have a double standard where Punk's past accomplishments count, while Lashley's don't.

No, it's more like the IWC is biased against people who are SHOVED down our throats for no real reason than being BIG.

CM Punk came in to ECW and had vignettes, yes. Well, so did The Highlanders and look where they are. CM Punk came into the WWE, probably without the WWE having any idea of how big he'd be. The fans knew his past work, saw him in the ring, loved his style, his promos, and is one of the few examples of the WWE HAVING to appease the fans because someone was getting so over with them on his OWN. He was pushed BECAUSE of the fans reactions.

Bobby Lashley came in and was pushed to the top and the fans couldn't careless. We saw him wrestle, we saw him talk, NOTHING TO LIKE. Bobby Lashley was pushed to GET the fans to like him. It worked for the common fan ( to an extent, many common fans don't like him either because he's really not anywhere near ready to be pushed so hard), but this scenario will never work for the IWC.

So to recap: CM Punk came in and the fans grew to love him. Lashely came in and the fans were being forced to love him.

Punk isn't even in the top 10 for face reactions. His reactions are not that big from the crowds. I guess its because Smackdown is taped before ECW. Thats the excuse I hear.

[Arthur Digby Stamp]

primetime110 said:

bindergang said:

No, it's more like the IWC is biased against people who are SHOVED down our throats for no real reason than being BIG.

CM Punk came in to ECW and had vignettes, yes. Well, so did The Highlanders and look where they are. CM Punk came into the WWE, probably without the WWE having any idea of how big he'd be. The fans knew his past work, saw him in the ring, loved his style, his promos, and is one of the few examples of the WWE HAVING to appease the fans because someone was getting so over with them on his OWN. He was pushed BECAUSE of the fans reactions.

Bobby Lashley came in and was pushed to the top and the fans couldn't careless. We saw him wrestle, we saw him talk, NOTHING TO LIKE. Bobby Lashley was pushed to GET the fans to like him. It worked for the common fan ( to an extent, many common fans don't like him either because he's really not anywhere near ready to be pushed so hard), but this scenario will never work for the IWC.

So to recap: CM Punk came in and the fans grew to love him. Lashely came in and the fans were being forced to love him.

Punk isn't even in the top 10 for face reactions. His reactions are not that big from the crowds. I guess its because Smackdown is taped before ECW. Thats the excuse I hear.

He got a pretty damn loud reaction during his segment with Edge just this past Tuesday.

[bindergang]

OK, so your saying CM Punk is only over because of the Hammerstein crowd and the Survivor Series '06 crowd, as if you proving me wrong. You're just proving what I said.

The Hammerstein crowd popped big for CM Punk because they were a fan of his previous work. The common WWE fan sees this and goes "Look at this reaction! We gotta love him!". So they pop too. What they saw was a NATURAL fan reaction, which trust me, you can tell, and that's why he got so over.

And than bringing up Survivor Series...where CM Punk is standing in the ring with Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Jeff Hardy, and Matt Hardy (wow look at that, all main event fan favorites) and the fans INTERRUPT Triple H to chant "CM PUNK". Not in the WWE's wildest dreams could they MANUFACTURE something like that.

You DON'T see reactions like that for people who the fans are "taught" to love.

The reactions CM Punk got, you won't see for anyone else in a LONG time because you can't MAKE something like that happen.

And give me a break about the whole "you're not forced to watch" bullshit that gets tossed around the board. We're all on this forum to praise/complain, otherwise we wouldn't be the dumbasses who make wrestling a big part of our life. We'd just be a regular common fan. As someone who is a huge wrestling fan, I absolutely love the WWE, but the Lashley pushing was shoved down our throats. Celebrity crap is all over the news, it's shoved in our face. Do you shun what's going on in the news because of certain aspects you'd rather be without?