Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Feb 24, 2008 8:16:18 GMT -5
I don't begrudge the Rock for leaving... actually the least I see him on WWE TV, the better it is. He wanted to go Hollywood, fine. Good for him. I'm not so sold on his "putting guys over" anyway, because if you're been on and off the roster for the better part of 2-3 years, it doesn't really matter whom you lose to. You're not a vital part of the show, so your appearences are more or less "special attractions" that may or may not affect the whole product. Even when he was an active member of the roster he was losing matches left and right to guys like Al Snow, Big Boss Man, the Dudleys and others.
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 24, 2008 11:35:05 GMT -5
Rock only wrestled full time from 97-00. After Wrestlemania 17 in 2001 was when he started taking his hiatus' for movies. Austin started off in like 1990. Yeah Rocky came back to "save" us in 02 for what 2 months when he cut this promo? Then came back in 03 for about 3 months, then 04 maybe a month? Give me a break Austin gave so much more than Rock ever did to the business. As soon as Austin came back in 2003 he put the Rock over so he hardly has a problem jobbing. I still have a problem with that being Austin's last match because it was not the way he should have gone out. losing a match =/= jobbing, really... For him putting others over, I don't think it really matters if you are a special attraction or not. What matters is who you are. Hogan coming back and losing clean in one match would do leaps and bounds more for someone's credibility than them beating Umaga 10 times. I think it's the same way for Rock or Austin (if Austin came back and actually put someone over) or whomever, the less they perform, and the bigger they were when they did, the bigger the rub when they put someone over. You don't get that if you see a guy every week. In my mind, the key word in "special attraction" is "special," it's the event of them coming, and if they put someone over, it means more than just another weekly match. And any doubts I had about him putting anyone over ended in his program with The Hurricane.
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Post by dh03grad on Feb 24, 2008 12:53:29 GMT -5
I don't begrudge the Rock for leaving... actually the least I see him on WWE TV, the better it is. He wanted to go Hollywood, fine. Good for him. I'm not so sold on his "putting guys over" anyway, because if you're been on and off the roster for the better part of 2-3 years, it doesn't really matter whom you lose to. You're not a vital part of the show, so your appearences are more or less "special attractions" that may or may not affect the whole product. What if Orton beats Rock clean tomorrow with the RKO and gives him the running boot of doom. That wouldnt greatly elevate Orton?
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Post by Asics Johnson on Feb 24, 2008 14:28:49 GMT -5
I know I'm coming in late as hell, but I'm with the original poster.
I remember watching that promo, and it made me sick to my stomach. The Rock was putting on like he was the biggest company man in the known world, and that Steve Austin was just a worthless bum with no work ethic. I mean, really? The Rock took off as soon as he was given half a chance. Not that I blame him. I'd have done the exact same thing. However, if you're gonna take off at the drop of a hat like he did, then why bother running someone else down for leaving?
I know, I know; "Rocky put over Shane Helms and Goldberg! Because it really mattered in the long run for either 'superstar'!!! Really!!! Austin never put anyone over... waaaaaah! Austin beat his wife too, and that must matter in this discussion! Waaaaaaaaah!"
Well, stop it right there, you. One of the main reasons The Rock even mattered in wrestling was "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. If it wasn't for Austin, who was already a megastar, helping The Rock out in the early stages of his career... well, who knows what his career would've meant? And for The Rock to go to the ring and run Steve Austin down after he left the company (for damn good reasons, if you ask me) was complete bulls***. Furthermore, so what if The Rock put over Bill Goldberg and The Hurricane? What kind of difference did that make? Where are they now? Gregory Helms is just another cruiserweight, just like always, and Bill Goldberg hosts Bullrun or something. You act like both guys would credit their entire careers to a pinfall victory over The Rock. It didn't do s*** for either one of them, except give them something to talk about when they meet new people. "You know, I pinned The Rock. Yeah, really! THE The Rock... pinned him."
Austin left because he didn't want to lose to Brock Lesnar clean with absolutely no buildup... and I don't blame him. He said it best in the WWE Magazine article when he returned; the line doesn't start with Stone Cold, the line ends with Stone Cold. Plain and simple. There is a big difference between Steve Austin losing to someone, and The Rock losing to someone. You can liken this to the difference between Hulk Hogan losing and Ric Flair losing... or John Cena losing and Randy Orton losing. The Rock was a silly character. He was one of the greatest of all time, but at his best, he was a silly heel... and silly heels can lose without taking a hit. Austin, Hogan, and Cena are the unstoppable babyfaces who always overcome in the end. When they lose to someone, it is a BIG deal....
... which is exactly why Austin saved his one "huge loss" for the last match of his career, and he REQUESTED that he lose to The Rock on his way out the door. They both looked like kings, but in the end, The Rock finally topped Stone Cold at WrestleMania... and I guarantee you that The Rock would say that beating Austin was the biggest moment of his wrestling career. See the difference?
Anyhow, back to the point. The Rock sucks for showing out like that over Austin leaving... but I guess they made up in the end, and all was forgiven. I just wish people would shutup about how bad of a guy Austin is. Everything he did in that scenario made perfect sense, but he gets s*** on for it all the time.
Which is probably why he beats his women. So think about that next time, before you try to sully his good name again.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Feb 24, 2008 15:14:15 GMT -5
I know I'm coming in late as hell, but I'm with the original poster. I remember watching that promo, and it made me sick to my stomach. The Rock was putting on like he was the biggest company man in the known world, and that Steve Austin was just a worthless bum with no work ethic. I mean, really? The Rock took off as soon as he was given half a chance. Not that I blame him. I'd have done the exact same thing. However, if you're gonna take off at the drop of a hat like he did, then why bother running someone else down for leaving? I know, I know; "Rocky put over Shane Helms and Goldberg! Because it really mattered in the long run for either 'superstar'!!! Really!!! Austin never put anyone over... waaaaaah! Austin beat his wife too, and that must matter in this discussion! Waaaaaaaaah!" Well, stop it right there, you. One of the main reasons The Rock even mattered in wrestling was "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. If it wasn't for Austin, who was already a megastar, helping The Rock out in the early stages of his career... well, who knows what his career would've meant? And for The Rock to go to the ring and run Steve Austin down after he left the company (for damn good reasons, if you ask me) was complete bulls***. Furthermore, so what if The Rock put over Bill Goldberg and The Hurricane? What kind of difference did that make? Where are they now? Gregory Helms is just another cruiserweight, just like always, and Bill Goldberg hosts Bullrun or something. You act like both guys would credit their entire careers to a pinfall victory over The Rock. It didn't do s*** for either one of them, except give them something to talk about when they meet new people. "You know, I pinned The Rock. Yeah, really! THE The Rock... pinned him." Austin left because he didn't want to lose to Brock Lesnar clean with absolutely no buildup... and I don't blame him. He said it best in the WWE Magazine article when he returned; the line doesn't start with Stone Cold, the line ends with Stone Cold. Plain and simple. There is a big difference between Steve Austin losing to someone, and The Rock losing to someone. You can liken this to the difference between Hulk Hogan losing and Ric Flair losing... or John Cena losing and Randy Orton losing. The Rock was a silly character. He was one of the greatest of all time, but at his best, he was a silly heel... and silly heels can lose without taking a hit. Austin, Hogan, and Cena are the unstoppable babyfaces who always overcome in the end. When they lose to someone, it is a BIG deal.... ... which is exactly why Austin saved his one "huge loss" for the last match of his career, and he REQUESTED that he lose to The Rock on his way out the door. They both looked like kings, but in the end, The Rock finally topped Stone Cold at WrestleMania... and I guarantee you that The Rock would say that beating Austin was the biggest moment of his wrestling career. See the difference? Anyhow, back to the point. The Rock sucks for showing out like that over Austin leaving... but I guess they made up in the end, and all was forgiven. I just wish people would shutup about how bad of a guy Austin is. Everything he did in that scenario made perfect sense, but he gets s*** on for it all the time. Which is probably why he beats his women. So think about that next time, before you try to sully his good name again. I don't think there's a justification for beating on women unless it's a life/death situation and you're in the position of defending yourself. Secondly, as admirable as it was for Austin to say that, it wasn't up to him to say when and how he wanted to job out. Rock never no-showed a TV taping to my knowledge because he didn't like the way he was being booked.
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Post by jmac950 on Feb 24, 2008 15:21:48 GMT -5
Yeah nice promo... WWE in his blood, the people's walker, the fire, the passion, this is home... all forgotten for a fat Hollywood paycheck and a career as "movie star". Austin suffered a serious injury and yet came back for more action. Rock moved on as soon as he was given the chance. His choice, fine, but it irks me seeing how much respect he's still getting and how many people want him back... He pulled a Lesnar before Lesnar did that, but since he's the People's Champ [cue 6 other silly nicknames] all can be forgiven. Agreed 100% And what's even funnier about this promo is that the Rock was gone after a few months, came back in 03 for another few months and again took off only coming back breifly in 04 for the Mania match against Evolution. I also understand it was his decision, but this promo just seems disingenuine in hindsight OMG!!1111!!!11 Imagine that. The Rock, a human being, changed his mind. ZOIGS! Seriously, the average human being changes their career job 6 times a year. I don't see why wrestlers should be any different. If I had a chance to make more money, work a lot less, and reduce the physical and emotional abuse the mind and body would take, I'd do it. Considering you look at how many wrestlers have died since the Rock left, or wrestlers who left the business angry and bitter, I'd say the Rock made the right decision
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Mac on Feb 24, 2008 15:31:53 GMT -5
Seems like a lot of wrestlers recently have tried to leave the world of wrestling behind and go into other ventures only to fail miserably and return. The most obvious example is Chris Jericho. I think he came back out of the need for a paycheck more than anything else.
I cant picture the wrestling lifestyle being overly glamorous, especially once you start to put together a family and you're on the road for 50 weeks a year putting yourself through pain that you'll probably feel the rest of your life and being a member of an industry where people drop dead in their 40s pretty regularly.
The Rock has been able to succesfully crossover, I dont begrudge him for that. If I were a wrestler and had the oppertunity to go into something equally if not more lucrative before being damaged for life I'd do it in a second.
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The F'N Captain
King Koopa
I was captain **** till Captain America Beat the crap out of me and left me in a dumpster
Posts: 10,929
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Post by The F'N Captain on Feb 24, 2008 16:10:05 GMT -5
Ah, it must be that time of the month to start criticizing Stone Cold for the whole walk out. No matter what it seems, people will always rag on Austin for the walk out. I'll try to put things in perspective... -Do you realize how crappy 2002 was in terms of booking for the WWE? There have been awesome matches from 2002, but storylines not so much. nWo losing steam in a matter of weeks, Katie Vick, the Jericho/HHH feud (that involved Stephanie's DOG of all things), etc. -The thinking that Brock needed to be fed as many people as possible to build up. Austin vs. Brock would have been a monumental PPV match, but not an 8 minute King of the Ring squash. As for the Rock, he is the perfect success story from pro wrestling. He accomplished everything there is to accomplish in a matter of a few years, had many classic matches, and a charismatic prescence that can be rivaled by Hulk Hogan. I guarantee you if he was still wrestling today you would not look back on him fondly and that he was "wearing out his welcome". Yet, he goes to Hollywood, makes some successful movies overall, and people rag he is a "sell out"? Selling out that he has an opportunity to makes millions and take more time off? The fact that WWE let his contract expire in 2005 without being informed sure has to weigh on his mind also. Regardless, especially after how wrestling has been viewed in the past year, I am sure Rock is glad he retired when he did. So, if I'm working at my job,and we have a bad week, then i shouldn't expect my bosses, or anyone who supported me at my job, to be pissed if I just walk out, even if I'm a HUGE cog in our business operations? Simple fact is this. When Austin left, he screwed a lot of things up for WWE to fix. When Rock left, WWE KNEW it and weren't at a pinch out of the blue.
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Post by chunkylover53 on Feb 24, 2008 16:53:01 GMT -5
Why is it Stone Cold gets attacked more making monthly visits yet The Rock is being attacked for not showing up so frequently?
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Post by DiBiase is Good on Feb 24, 2008 16:59:44 GMT -5
I'm happy for the Rock to carry on with his acting career and leave wrestling behind. But would it hurt him to make the occasional appearance? Wrestling is his past and he's moved on from there, that's fine. But wrestling is what made him famous and it wouldn't hurt him to acknowledge that by (for example) appearing at the Raw Anniversary. It kinda hurts that one of the greatest performers of recent times last live appearance for the WWE was in the godawful Diva Segment where Christy's ass got hungry. Ventura became a governor, but he still appeared at SummerSlam. Granted, it was probably for a nice paycheck but he still acknowledged that.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Feb 24, 2008 17:01:59 GMT -5
I'm happy for the Rock to carry on with his acting career and leave wrestling behind. But would it hurt him to make the occasional appearance? Wrestling is his past and he's moved on from there, that's fine. But wrestling is what made him famous and it wouldn't hurt him to acknowledge that by (for example) appearing at the Raw Anniversary. Ventura became a governor, but he still appeared at SummerSlam. Granted, it was probably for a nice paycheck but he still acknowledged that. I was just going to say that. He seems almost embarassed by his past in wrestling
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Post by eJm on Feb 24, 2008 17:18:40 GMT -5
I'm happy for the Rock to carry on with his acting career and leave wrestling behind. But would it hurt him to make the occasional appearance? Wrestling is his past and he's moved on from there, that's fine. But wrestling is what made him famous and it wouldn't hurt him to acknowledge that by (for example) appearing at the Raw Anniversary. It kinda hurts that one of the greatest performers of recent times last live appearance for the WWE was in the godawful Diva Segment where Christy's ass got hungry. Ventura became a governor, but he still appeared at SummerSlam. Granted, it was probably for a nice paycheck but he still acknowledged that. The thing is, actors work a really tight schedule. Sometimes you go from one movie to another straight away. Not only that, you still have to do promotional tours, such as with Rock's recent treks around to Soccer AM and Friday Night with Johnathan Ross. I'm not saying I wouldn't like to see him, but I also see that right now, he's working alot of days which can stretch for hours for various different reasons and then come the PR tours and various interviews with different publications. Sometimes, maybe, he doesn't have any control over it.
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 24, 2008 17:21:41 GMT -5
Well, stop it right there, you. One of the main reasons The Rock even mattered in wrestling was "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. If it wasn't for Austin, who was already a megastar, helping The Rock out in the early stages of his career... well, who knows what his career would've meant? And for The Rock to go to the ring and run Steve Austin down after he left the company (for damn good reasons, if you ask me) was complete bulls***. Furthermore, so what if The Rock put over Bill Goldberg and The Hurricane? What kind of difference did that make? Where are they now? Gregory Helms is just another cruiserweight, just like always, and Bill Goldberg hosts Bullrun or something. You act like both guys would credit their entire careers to a pinfall victory over The Rock. It didn't do s*** for either one of them, except give them something to talk about when they meet new people. "You know, I pinned The Rock. Yeah, really! THE The Rock... pinned him." Stone Cold squashed a lot of people, they all weren't propelled to Rock's level of popularity. Really, Stone Cold or Hulk Hogan could have put Goldberg or Helms over, but if the booking staff didn't do anything after it, it wouldn't matter. I think Rock putting Hurricane over was huge at the time, as was Goldberg, but any one time push won't do jack if they don't do anything good with it afterwards.
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kswolf
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 600
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Post by kswolf on Feb 24, 2008 17:24:22 GMT -5
Does anyone honestly believe that Rock wrote that speech himself? I'm pretty sure everything he said there came from Vince, not from the Rock himself. The company called him back specifically to try and appease fans who were bound to be disappointed by Austin's no-show. He was doing them a favor by even showing up there. On that night, he was the ultimate company man.
I'll also point out that it was WWE that abandoned the Rock -- not the other way around. They were the ones who let his contract run out without even bothering to try and re-sign him. As a matter of fact, he even stated that he was kind of hurt that they didn't try to keep him.
Let's face it, WWE made millions from the guy. He repaid their investment in him - millions of times over - and frankly, he owes them nothing. They should be grateful that he still agrees to come back and make the occasional appearance.
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Post by Red Impact on Feb 24, 2008 17:27:48 GMT -5
I was just going to say that. He seems almost embarassed by his past in wrestling If he was embarrassed, would he have done the promo for Wrestlemania? Yeah, it was taped, but he still did it nonetheless. If he didn't want to be associated with it at all, he wouldn't do anything, no taped promos, no appearances, no nothing. That's not been the case. He hasn't done many live performers, sure, but he hasn't exactly disavowed it by any stretch. He made them millions. Hell, I think he was a large reason why the company still exists.
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JD Turk
Team Rocket
The freshest man on Wrestlecrap!
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Post by JD Turk on Feb 24, 2008 18:35:45 GMT -5
"boo hoo, the Rock left the business behind, he's a jerk-off!!"
Oh please...I'm tired of people saying he pulled a Brock Lesnar..Brock turned his back on the WWE, his fans, etc....only to fail...he is an extraordinary wrestler, but you CANNOT compare him to the Rock in regards with leaving the business, at all.
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Post by dh03grad on Feb 24, 2008 21:25:19 GMT -5
I know I'm coming in late as hell, but I'm with the original poster. I remember watching that promo, and it made me sick to my stomach. The Rock was putting on like he was the biggest company man in the known world, and that Steve Austin was just a worthless bum with no work ethic. I mean, really? The Rock took off as soon as he was given half a chance. Not that I blame him. I'd have done the exact same thing. However, if you're gonna take off at the drop of a hat like he did, then why bother running someone else down for leaving? I know, I know; "Rocky put over Shane Helms and Goldberg! Because it really mattered in the long run for either 'superstar'!!! Really!!! Austin never put anyone over... waaaaaah! Austin beat his wife too, and that must matter in this discussion! Waaaaaaaaah!" Well, stop it right there, you. One of the main reasons The Rock even mattered in wrestling was "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. If it wasn't for Austin, who was already a megastar, helping The Rock out in the early stages of his career... well, who knows what his career would've meant? And for The Rock to go to the ring and run Steve Austin down after he left the company (for damn good reasons, if you ask me) was complete bulls***. Furthermore, so what if The Rock put over Bill Goldberg and The Hurricane? What kind of difference did that make? Where are they now? Gregory Helms is just another cruiserweight, just like always, and Bill Goldberg hosts Bullrun or something. You act like both guys would credit their entire careers to a pinfall victory over The Rock. It didn't do s*** for either one of them, except give them something to talk about when they meet new people. "You know, I pinned The Rock. Yeah, really! THE The Rock... pinned him." Austin left because he didn't want to lose to Brock Lesnar clean with absolutely no buildup... and I don't blame him. He said it best in the WWE Magazine article when he returned; the line doesn't start with Stone Cold, the line ends with Stone Cold. Plain and simple. There is a big difference between Steve Austin losing to someone, and The Rock losing to someone. You can liken this to the difference between Hulk Hogan losing and Ric Flair losing... or John Cena losing and Randy Orton losing. The Rock was a silly character. He was one of the greatest of all time, but at his best, he was a silly heel... and silly heels can lose without taking a hit. Austin, Hogan, and Cena are the unstoppable babyfaces who always overcome in the end. When they lose to someone, it is a BIG deal.... ... which is exactly why Austin saved his one "huge loss" for the last match of his career, and he REQUESTED that he lose to The Rock on his way out the door. They both looked like kings, but in the end, The Rock finally topped Stone Cold at WrestleMania... and I guarantee you that The Rock would say that beating Austin was the biggest moment of his wrestling career. See the difference? Anyhow, back to the point. The Rock sucks for showing out like that over Austin leaving... but I guess they made up in the end, and all was forgiven. I just wish people would shutup about how bad of a guy Austin is. Everything he did in that scenario made perfect sense, but he gets s*** on for it all the time. Which is probably why he beats his women. So think about that next time, before you try to sully his good name again. Its not the Rock's fault they had HHH squash the Hurricane a week or two after beating him. Not his fault Goldberg lost to a sledgehammer in the Elimination Chamber. Not his fault Booker T lost to HHH after eliminating him in that battle royal. Snitsky can squash Hulk Hogan tomorrow. It wont mean a damn thing if hes pedigreed back to reality next week.
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Post by Asics Johnson on Feb 25, 2008 8:25:19 GMT -5
I was clearly joking about Austin being justified in hitting a woman. Everyone around here likes to bring it up for no reason... so I just wanted to poke at that for a second. Don't sweat it.
I think it was up to Stone Cold to say when and how he was going to leave. He obviously went to the Roddy Piper school of dealing with promoters. Don't do anything you don't want to do, and always leave on your own terms. If you're a great professional wrestler, you will rise to the top regardless of whether you are "difficult" backstage or not.
I wasn't badmouthing the Rock as a person, either. I know he was a great sport as far as backstage stuff went... and I know he is one of the greatest of all time. I was just pointing out that the speech he gave when Austin left was pure crap, and if he only did it once in his career, The Rock should've said no to giving that speech.
Actually, Hogan put Goldberg over clean as a whistle once upon a time... and it did matter, alot. But if they really wanted to put the Hurricane over, they would've had Rey Misterio job to him cleanly. Anyway, I see what you're saying, it's all in the booking... but that doesn't change my original point at all.
Again, you're missing the point. I wasn't trying to run The Rock into the ground. I quite enjoy The Rock, past and present. I was just saying that a loss to him doesn't mean nearly as much as people are making it out to be. Mainly, though, I was saying that Austin was justified when he left, and The Rock should've kept his mouth shut.
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