mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Mar 19, 2008 16:38:01 GMT -5
I will agree with the original poster. At least in my own personal opinion. That last WM that TRUELY had the magic was 2002. With Hall-Austin, Trips-Jericho, Rock-Hogan(which should have been ME damnit) but of course trips had to his thing. etc.. 2001-2002 were the last ones I thought felt magical. Alot of people say 20? Ehh I felt it overrated. 2004 was a bad year in wrestling IMO. The product was horrible. Never thought Benoit should have been champ, nor Eddie. Both great workers but not WC material IMO.To this day, I think it was just to appease the smart marks looking for "workrate" and to say thank u to eddie and Benoit through years of struggle and fighting for the top spot. It was an emotional ending to Mania but nothing I would call as "magical" like a andre-hogan, warrior-hogan, austin-shawn, austin-rock WM 17, WM XV, Piper-T etc. This man. Well, in my opinion if they weren't world champion caliber there wasn't anyone on the roster who was. Now that may be the case.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Mar 19, 2008 17:45:56 GMT -5
It seems nowadays people just look at the "good parts' of the past to put down the current product without thinking about all the crap that happened in the past. I remember the first wrestlemania not being special, I mean Hogan didn't defend his title and Greg The Hammer was IC champ, what the hell(no offence to Greg but the man past his prime in the 70's)? This isn't the case at all. There's certainly been worse mania card's in the past, like 2, 9, 13, etc. It sounds like you're doing the reverse - belittling the past. To say the first Mania wasn't special is absurd. Who cares if Hogan didn't defend, the Mister T, Cindi Lauper, plus Ali thrown in, brought wrestling to the mainstream. It was the single greatest thing to ever happen to wrestling. Valentine was still in his prime in the eighties. I mean, he's still wrestling to this day. My main problem is stuff like the MITB. It should've been treated like the TLC series. It's not special anymore, it's just wasting talent instead of building them with their own storylines.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Mar 19, 2008 17:56:04 GMT -5
lol this negative posts blooms for all the negative revisionist posters really the build has been good, we're going into overdrive next week and i'm happy about that Wrestlemania X-7 is typically listed as THE BEST. It was also the most thrown together card out of all of the wrestlemanias Shane vs. Vince TLC II Chyna vs. Ivory Jericho vs. Regal All of those were long builds. And several of the other marquee matches (Austin vs. Rock II, UT vs. HHH, Benoit vs. Angle) had solid builds anyway. Jed f'n Shaffer ~I guess it depends on what you mean by "thrown together". i said it in another post, but the only ones to recieve a substantial build were Austin/Rock, Chyna/Ivory, and TLC 2. The rest of the card was thrown together in 3 weeks. HHH said he was going to end Taker's streak, and we got the match. Angle/Benoit wanted to see who was the better one "once and for all" at wrestlemania, challenge laid out on I think 2 smackdowns before Wrestlemania. McMahon/McMahon was made on Smackdown on the eve of Wrestlemania in one promo segment, with Foley announced as special referee. That's how it went. Compared to this year's Mania, where TRiple H/Cena/Orton was built right at No Way Out, just like Austin/Rock. Like Austin/Rock the fued is more reliant on past fueds they've had with each other. Taker/Edge has been brewing since Last year once Edge "beat" The Undertaker for the WHC. MITB build is in the qualifying matches, and subsequent Singles/tag matches featuring MITB participants, which has been gearing people to think that Punk is going to win the Whole thing. Finlay/JBL started 3 weeks or so ago when JBL DESTROYED Hornswoggle. It worked because a lot of people are emotionally invested in Finlay, for the FIRST time in his career. They've started to build towards the Battle Royal, by announcing the Biggest guys are PArticipating, and Chavo will be expecting a pretty beat challenger come his title match, so the build literally is going to be the Battle Royal. Bunny Mania, started because Beth Pheonix didn't like Maria, MElina didn't like Maria, and Candice screwed Beth in her match against Maria. So yeah it's pretty much your standard we don't like each other match...except with Snoop Dogg as the Host. They announced Batista/Umaga, but there was a subtle hint during the rumble when Umaga hit the Spike on Batista, and Batista was the guy who eliminated Umaga. The first shot in the attack was Umaga costing Batista the US title, and in this fued it's mostly about who's the tougher wrestler. I'm hyped for this because I mark for both guys. Mayweather/Show, is our spectacle of the show with the sports media giving attention to it, it is a casual viewer ppv draw. The build to this mania has been really solid, going into this month. People saying the build is lacking, are saying so because of their lack of interest in the WWE product itself, rather than the build. Which for the most part has mirrored that of past wrestlemanias.
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Above Average
Wade Wilson
Being Held Down by the Man and Several "Women"
Old School Tope Con Fiveo!!!
Posts: 25,137
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Post by Above Average on Mar 19, 2008 17:58:15 GMT -5
Wrestlemania X-7 is typically listed as THE BEST. It was also the most thrown together card out of all of the wrestlemanias Shane vs. Vince TLC II Chyna vs. Ivory Jericho vs. Regal All of those were long builds. And several of the other marquee matches (Austin vs. Rock II, UT vs. HHH, Benoit vs. Angle) had solid builds anyway. Jed f'n Shaffer ~I guess it depends on what you mean by "thrown together". Jericho/Regal had a strong build? Did they not start feuding shortly after No Way Out of that year just, after Jericho interrupted a Regal announcement or something? The other 3 you mention did have good build though. Rock/Austin had been teased at the Royal Rumble that year if I remember right, but Kane then chucked out the Rock while Austin/Rock were fighting. HHH/Taker was completely out of nowhere straight after No Way Out. At NWO Taker was involved in a three way table match with E&C and the Dudleys I think, then suddenly got thrust into one of the biggest matches for WM. Benoit/Angle: Angle came out on Raw like 2 weeks before the PPV and said that its ridiculous he doesn't have a match for WM when even the Gobbledy Gooker did, then Benoit came out and challenged him. Not much build there. Quite a few matches were thrown together, but there were enough big feuds being built up beforehand to compensate for it.
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Cranjis McBasketball
Crow T. Robot
Knew what the hell that thing was supposed to be
Peace Love and Nothing But
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Mar 19, 2008 18:02:25 GMT -5
To be fair, Mania does a lot of coasting. The first two coasted on being something different, then 3 happened and they coasted on that pretty much until WrestleMania 10 and then they coasted all the way to 20 and now they're coasting again.
I love WrestleMania, to me, each is important in it's own way, but really it's supreme marketing. They say it's huge, we all believe it.
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Hanzo
Dennis Stamp
"You want Cena to go to ECW?!"
Posts: 4,666
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Post by Hanzo on Mar 19, 2008 18:49:05 GMT -5
Benoit (in a cheerful tone of voice): The good news is, is that I don't have an opponent for WrestleMania either.
(in a serious, "I'm about to kick your ass" tone of voice) The bad news is, is that I don't have an opponent for WrestleMania either.
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Post by joeman on Mar 19, 2008 19:01:05 GMT -5
It seems nowadays people just look at the "good parts' of the past to put down the current product without thinking about all the crap that happened in the past. I remember the first wrestlemania not being special, I mean Hogan didn't defend his title and Greg The Hammer was IC champ, what the hell(no offence to Greg but the man past his prime in the 70's)? Really. He only debuted in 70. In 85 he looked pretty broken down. Recently I met him, Scotty Too Hotty, and Jimmy Hart in an independent show called 1CPW and he looked half retarded. I like the man, but the guy is very broken down person who is wrestling to this day because he didn't save his money .
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Post by joeman on Mar 19, 2008 19:04:52 GMT -5
It seems nowadays people just look at the "good parts' of the past to put down the current product without thinking about all the crap that happened in the past. I remember the first wrestlemania not being special, I mean Hogan didn't defend his title and Greg The Hammer was IC champ, what the hell(no offence to Greg but the man past his prime in the 70's)? This isn't the case at all. There's certainly been worse mania card's in the past, like 2, 9, 13, etc. It sounds like you're doing the reverse - belittling the past. To say the first Mania wasn't special is absurd. Who cares if Hogan didn't defend, the Mister T, Cindi Lauper, plus Ali thrown in, brought wrestling to the mainstream. It was the single greatest thing to ever happen to wrestling. Valentine was still in his prime in the eighties. I mean, he's still wrestling to this day. My main problem is stuff like the MITB. It should've been treated like the TLC series. It's not special anymore, it's just wasting talent instead of building them with their own storylines. I disagree with wasting talent. I could have seen Kennedy being really big until the steroid scandal last year when he was proclaiming he would defend it at Wrestlemania. Keep in mind that those that cash in their briefcases always won the match so I think it is a good thing. Yes, the first Wrestlemania was a great thing, but when you compare it to other Wrestlemania, despite being the first, it wasn't that special. Floyd Mayweather, whether you like him or not, has brought more media coverage than Donald Trump.
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Jtre
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 561
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Post by Jtre on Mar 19, 2008 20:38:39 GMT -5
To be fair, Mania does a lot of coasting. The first two coasted on being something different, then 3 happened and they coasted on that pretty much until WrestleMania 10 and then they coasted all the way to 20 and now they're coasting again. I love WrestleMania, to me, each is important in it's own way, but really it's supreme marketing. They say it's huge, we all believe it. This has to be one of the most inaccurate statements ever. They coasted from WM III to WM X? Are you serious? Yeah, there was absolutely no build for matches like Hogan-Savage, Hogan-Warrior, Flair-Savage or Bret-Owen. What about the whole damn WM IV title tournament? Yeah, Vince and company were really "coasting." How can you say they "coasted" from WM XI to XX? Seriously, the Steve Austin WMXIV build started at least a year earlier! They were building toward his feud with Michaels in the summer of 1997 and building toward him getting the belt all the way back to KOTG 1996. Throwing Tyson into the mix in January of 1998 may have made that the best main event build in WM history. The fatal fourway in 2000 is another example of a tremendous build up. All four men in the match had history with one another that went back quite a while, and the match was even promoted on Saturday Night Live. To say that WWE coasts into WM by just telling people the card is important rather than by giving it an important feel through the storylines and matches is completely untrue.
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Post by Just "Dan" is Fine, Thank You on Mar 19, 2008 20:40:47 GMT -5
Wrestlemania X-7 is typically listed as THE BEST. It was also the most thrown together card out of all of the wrestlemanias Normally it takes 5 pages to reach this kind of sane, logical post. Kudos.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Mar 19, 2008 20:56:15 GMT -5
Benoit (in a cheerful tone of voice): The good news is, is that I don't have an opponent for WrestleMania either. (in a serious, "I'm about to kick your ass" tone of voice) The bad news is, is that I don't have an opponent for WrestleMania either. Didn't that segment open the last Raw before Mania? As though they suddenly realized, "Shit, two of our best workers aren't on the card! Bah, just throw 'em together and give 'em 20 minutes!" It turned into a fine little program after a few months, but the "build" for their Mania match was non-existant. And for the record, the best build for a Mania was Wrestlemania V's Explosion of Mega-Powers. Good match, too.
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EZ: Brainy Bae
King Koopa
I be like SHEESH
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Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on Mar 19, 2008 22:03:06 GMT -5
Wrestlemania X-7 is typically listed as THE BEST. It was also the most thrown together card out of all of the wrestlemanias Normally it takes 5 pages to reach this kind of sane, logical post. Kudos. Bingo. We've just grown older is all. I'm pretty sure if I was 9/10 again I'd be looking at this card and being pretty damn hyped. Hell, I like the card now. Apart from Savage/Hogan and Austin/Michaels, almost all big matches were built up around the same time that this year's WM has done them, at around the Royal Rumble. Hogan/Andre was only built up for a month before WMIII. Hell, you could probably include Undertaker/Edge on the above list since it started back in Survivor Series.
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wwerules60
El Dandy
"Bring what? a vomit bag? a fig newton?"
Posts: 8,999
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Post by wwerules60 on Mar 19, 2008 23:50:14 GMT -5
Flair is retiring, you can't get a bigger moment than that.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Mar 19, 2008 23:52:02 GMT -5
Really it's the rose colored glasses. The build has been really strong actually for this wrestlemania. There's a lot STAR power on the card, and thanks to MITB and The Battle Royal, most key players have a wrestlemania Pay Day.
You know how this card has stacked up in a little over 2 months? It looks great on paper.
When the show starts, then throw out the "there's just no magic/nothing good about wrestlemania" lines.
We've been hearing this complaining about Wrestlemania since the IWC exploded in 2001. Eh We had this same thread last year.
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Miz-Wannabe
Don Corleone
Vicariously Living through The Miz
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Post by Miz-Wannabe on Mar 20, 2008 0:14:24 GMT -5
Really it's the rose colored glasses. The build has been really strong actually for this wrestlemania. There's a lot STAR power on the card, and thanks to MITB and The Battle Royal, most key players have a wrestlemania Pay Day. You know how this card has stacked up in a little over 2 months? It looks great on paper. When the show starts, then throw out the "there's just no magic/nothing good about wrestlemania" lines. We've been hearing this complaining about Wrestlemania since the IWC exploded in 2001. Eh We had this same thread last year. I'm not complaining. I will always think Mania is a big deal no matter what. I'm just saying maybe the storylines or feuds aren't that meaningful.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Mar 20, 2008 0:17:06 GMT -5
that's because you've losts interest in the product
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Post by DoubleDare on Mar 20, 2008 0:30:14 GMT -5
Nothing will ever be more thrown together than Dlo Brown & Test vs Owen Hart & Jeff Jarret at WrestleMania XV They had a battle royal earlier on heat, whoever the last 2 people in the ring would team up and face owen & jarrett.
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Joekishi
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,490
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Post by Joekishi on Mar 20, 2008 0:38:45 GMT -5
that's pretty much what this battle royal is, except that they are actually building up the Battle Royal.
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Post by WWE Trademarked My Name on Mar 20, 2008 0:40:26 GMT -5
I thought this WrestleMania was built up just fine. When we reach Mania I look for it to be a lot more hyped and interesting that the rest of the year and that's what I've felt like the E' has been doing for the last couple months.
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Post by WWE Trademarked My Name on Mar 20, 2008 0:41:16 GMT -5
that's pretty much what this battle royal is, except that they are actually building up the Battle Royal. I can guarentee it won't be quite as random as Test/D'Lo though.
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