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Post by Jay Broni on Feb 23, 2008 2:29:50 GMT -5
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Max
Hank Scorpio
Played Radar on M*A*S*H
im smokin skunk and poppin the truck to make me feel good
Posts: 5,374
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Post by Max on Feb 23, 2008 3:12:07 GMT -5
why the hell did they feud!? was it just a random match or an actual feud? did kidman gain any overness because of it?
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Post by Al Wilson Lives: Thread Killer on Feb 23, 2008 3:23:45 GMT -5
why the hell did they feud!? was it just a random match or an actual feud? did kidman gain any overness because of it? It was part of the New Blood (Mid-carders that were tired of getting over-looked) vs, Millionaires Club (established stars that wouldn't give up their spot) feud. It was a good idea except the New Blood were heels and the Millionaires Club were the faces. Basically, Hogan destroyed Kidman over and over again and Kidman got a few cheap wins. It didn't do much of anything for BK. |
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Post by thesam07 on Feb 23, 2008 4:10:02 GMT -5
This was a step by step process on "How to not put over a younger wrestler".
Poor BK.
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Post by angryfan on Feb 23, 2008 6:01:53 GMT -5
This was a step by step process on "How to not put over a younger wrestler". Poor BK. God, it was abysmal in every way possible. I felt horrible for Kidman the entire time. He wone maybe two matches in the "feud", both by cheap roll up (with interferance I believe), Hogan "crushed him in a dumpster with the white Hummer", beat the crap out him for 90 percent of every single match (you know the babyface hope spot? Well, this was like that only in reverse since Hogan was the face, so it was a long squash with a cheap ending), and burying Kidman on the mic at every turn. I loved the line "you couldn't draw at a flea market", which does so much to get over a young guy, right? |
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Feb 23, 2008 6:15:17 GMT -5
Kidman shouldn't have been feuding with Hogan to begin with, the guy was nowhere near as over to be in a top feud with the likes of Hogan and had no mic skills or charisma to keep it going.
Plus the guy is scrawny, no one would've bought him beating Hogan cleanly anyways.
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Post by angryfan on Feb 23, 2008 6:25:03 GMT -5
Kidman shouldn't have been feuding with Hogan to begin with, the guy was nowhere near as over to be in a top feud with the likes of Hogan and had no mic skills or charisma to keep it going. Plus the guy is scrawny, no one would've bought him beating Hogan cleanly anyways. I agree, the guy is smaller, and his mic skills are horrific, always have been. However, he was, at the time, one of their most over guys in the midcard CW division. Now, if you want to build a young guy, why not go with the midcarder who people like, who is part of a very hot division, and push him? Problem is, of course no one would buy him if he got repeatedly squashed over and over. No one gets over that way, ever. If Hogan had come in to WWF back in the early 80's, with momentum, and been squashed over and over by Sheik and Andre, would he have gotten over as the big name? Not a chnace, he'd be just another big jobber. Charisma and "the look" are nice, but if you get jobbed out for weeks or months, people will not take you seriously. If you lack size, then getting destroyed over and over is a killer. Hell, look at Rey's title run. We bury it (and rightfully so) because, even though we know the man is talented, and we've all seen what he CAN do, how was he presented to the "casual fan"? He was presented as "look, he's SMALL, watch the big guys throw him like a paper airplane! HAW HAW, he's SMALL! But, he is also gritty and he has HEART! Just a small heart". As a result, his title run, which could've been pretty damn good, sucked large amounts of ass. Maybe Kidman wasn't the best choice for the Hogan "feud", like I said, but the idea was right and, no matter who you put in that situation, if anyone was "put over" with that kind of booking, it would have failed, no matter who it was. |
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Feb 23, 2008 6:46:33 GMT -5
Kidman shouldn't have been feuding with Hogan to begin with, the guy was nowhere near as over to be in a top feud with the likes of Hogan and had no mic skills or charisma to keep it going. Plus the guy is scrawny, no one would've bought him beating Hogan cleanly anyways. I agree, the guy is smaller, and his mic skills are horrific, always have been. However, he was, at the time, one of their most over guys in the midcard CW division. Now, if you want to build a young guy, why not go with the midcarder who people like, who is part of a very hot division, and push him? Problem is, of course no one would buy him if he got repeatedly squashed over and over. No one gets over that way, ever. If Hogan had come in to WWF back in the early 80's, with momentum, and been squashed over and over by Sheik and Andre, would he have gotten over as the big name? Not a chnace, he'd be just another big jobber. Charisma and "the look" are nice, but if you get jobbed out for weeks or months, people will not take you seriously. If you lack size, then getting destroyed over and over is a killer. Hell, look at Rey's title run. We bury it (and rightfully so) because, even though we know the man is talented, and we've all seen what he CAN do, how was he presented to the "casual fan"? He was presented as "look, he's SMALL, watch the big guys throw him like a paper airplane! HAW HAW, he's SMALL! But, he is also gritty and he has HEART! Just a small heart". As a result, his title run, which could've been pretty damn good, sucked large amounts of ass. Maybe Kidman wasn't the best choice for the Hogan "feud", like I said, but the idea was right and, no matter who you put in that situation, if anyone was "put over" with that kind of booking, it would have failed, no matter who it was. Seeing as Kidman was the heel in this case, he shouldn't have won cleanly anyways. I mean, I couldn't see myself buying Kidman vs. the likes of Nash, Steiner, Goldberg, etc. because of the size difference and lack of charisma. |
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jobberjoe
Trap-Jaw
enhancing talent since the Nixon administration
Posts: 457
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Post by jobberjoe on Feb 23, 2008 9:40:47 GMT -5
it was a terrible idea from the git- Hogan did not give any rub to Kidman and Kidman was made to loose his shine by working with the orange goblin
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Post by probable on Feb 23, 2008 10:06:51 GMT -5
Wasn't the "flea market" line a shoot comment by Hogan prior to the fued? Something Russo tried to capatalise on?
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Feb 23, 2008 12:04:16 GMT -5
Wasn't the "flea market" line a shoot comment by Hogan prior to the fued? Something Russo tried to capatalise on? I believe it was. And I know some people will forever think that Kidman could've been some type of star or something, but honestly I don't think it would've worked if they had him go over clean. He's a heel, and a very very small heel at that with no charisma and can't talk to save his life. It was a Russo forced push, it's not like he was as over as Booker.T or DDP. Hogan put over The Wall letting him kick out of his finisher on Nitro and needing Vampiro to take him down. And I believe he lost to Vampiro and Mike Awesome around this time as well, but of course since he's "TEH ORANGE GHOSTS N GHOBLINZ!@!1", it'll be overlooked. |
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Post by strykerdarksilence on Feb 24, 2008 8:13:37 GMT -5
Wasn't the "flea market" line a shoot comment by Hogan prior to the fued? Something Russo tried to capatalise on? I believe it was. And I know some people will forever think that Kidman could've been some type of star or something, but honestly I don't think it would've worked if they had him go over clean. He's a heel, and a very very small heel at that with no charisma and can't talk to save his life. It was a Russo forced push, it's not like he was as over as Booker.T or DDP. Hogan put over The Wall letting him kick out of his finisher on Nitro and needing Vampiro to take him down. And I believe he lost to Vampiro and Mike Awesome around this time as well, but of course since he's "TEH ORANGE GHOSTS N GHOBLINZ!@!1", it'll be overlooked. Kidman would never have been turned into a main eventer I agree, but could of been bumped up to US title level consistently, and occasional TV main event if the matches had been done properly. He would have been taken more seriously. I don`t agree with all the trashing Hogan gets a lot of the time, but if he was asked to put someone over on tv, he should have done it properly, it wouldn`t have hurt him at all. |
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Feb 24, 2008 8:21:26 GMT -5
I believe it was. And I know some people will forever think that Kidman could've been some type of star or something, but honestly I don't think it would've worked if they had him go over clean. He's a heel, and a very very small heel at that with no charisma and can't talk to save his life. It was a Russo forced push, it's not like he was as over as Booker.T or DDP. Hogan put over The Wall letting him kick out of his finisher on Nitro and needing Vampiro to take him down. And I believe he lost to Vampiro and Mike Awesome around this time as well, but of course since he's "TEH ORANGE GHOSTS N GHOBLINZ!@!1", it'll be overlooked. Kidman would never have been turned into a main eventer I agree, but could of been bumped up to US title level consistently, and occasional TV main event if the matches had been done properly. He would have been taken more seriously. I don`t agree with all the trashing Hogan gets a lot of the time, but if he was asked to put someone over on tv, he should have done it properly, it wouldn`t have hurt him at all. That should've happened afterwards, and for that blame Russo as he thought it was a great idea to have him feud with Shane Douglas later on in a "Viagra On A Pole" match and then eventually back with the Filthy Animals. If he was as over some would say, he'd have gotten a top spot in WWE. In the case of Hogan/Kidman, it's really hard to hide the size difference between the two and as Hogan is a power wrestler, it's going to look like a mismatch out there and to have Kidman just flat out beat Hogan who's the face in this case sounds like a joke really. I mean if it was a feud with someone like Hogan and Mike Awesome, I could see Awesome beating him clean or The Wall, but Kidman sorry just can't see it as he's far too small and has no charisma at all in bringing people to his matches. |
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by mrjl on Feb 24, 2008 21:39:46 GMT -5
Kidman would never have been turned into a main eventer I agree, but could of been bumped up to US title level consistently, and occasional TV main event if the matches had been done properly. He would have been taken more seriously. I don`t agree with all the trashing Hogan gets a lot of the time, but if he was asked to put someone over on tv, he should have done it properly, it wouldn`t have hurt him at all. That should've happened afterwards, and for that blame Russo as he thought it was a great idea to have him feud with Shane Douglas later on in a "Viagra On A Pole" match and then eventually back with the Filthy Animals. If he was as over some would say, he'd have gotten a top spot in WWE. In the case of Hogan/Kidman, it's really hard to hide the size difference between the two and as Hogan is a power wrestler, it's going to look like a mismatch out there and to have Kidman just flat out beat Hogan who's the face in this case sounds like a joke really. I mean if it was a feud with someone like Hogan and Mike Awesome, I could see Awesome beating him clean or The Wall, but Kidman sorry just can't see it as he's far too small and has no charisma at all in bringing people to his matches. Hogan was doing stuff like tossing him in dumpsters he then hit with cars. It's not like he was a straight out face. And if Kidman was the heel then he should have been cheating enough that he didn't just get the advantage at the end with outside interference. |
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Hiroshi Hase
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Feb 25, 2008 8:04:17 GMT -5
That should've happened afterwards, and for that blame Russo as he thought it was a great idea to have him feud with Shane Douglas later on in a "Viagra On A Pole" match and then eventually back with the Filthy Animals. If he was as over some would say, he'd have gotten a top spot in WWE. In the case of Hogan/Kidman, it's really hard to hide the size difference between the two and as Hogan is a power wrestler, it's going to look like a mismatch out there and to have Kidman just flat out beat Hogan who's the face in this case sounds like a joke really. I mean if it was a feud with someone like Hogan and Mike Awesome, I could see Awesome beating him clean or The Wall, but Kidman sorry just can't see it as he's far too small and has no charisma at all in bringing people to his matches. Hogan was doing stuff like tossing him in dumpsters he then hit with cars. It's not like he was a straight out face. And if Kidman was the heel then he should have been cheating enough that he didn't just get the advantage at the end with outside interference. So what? That was in retaliation for them doing that to him the previous week and as he was not the Yellow/Red babyface Hogan, he could do those sort of things and still be cheered. It was clear that Hogan was the face in the feud, not Kidman. Kidman should have never been put in such a high profile feud as he was nowhere near ready for it and if Kidman was as great as people say he would've gotten a bigger push in WWE when he went there eventually. And in those matches Kidman was getting offense on Hogan. It was a Russo forced push that didn't work as Kidman was nowhere near over as a Booker.T was or DDP or any of the other upper midcard guys. |
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Post by ephphathainc on Feb 26, 2008 11:46:52 GMT -5
The feud between Hogan and Kidman did have promise, but it all sparked whenever Vince Russo first too over as head of creative control during his first reign in WCW.
In the very very beginning of the Russo ran WCW Nitro. They showed a Russo SMASH TV clip of Hogan with his luggage walking out of the arena and getting into his car, as the reporter and camera tried to get a word from him, he replied, and I and I am paraphrasing here, but I believe that this was his almost exact quote...
"I'll be damned if I'll be working with the likes of Billy Kidman.
Then fast forward to a few months later when Bischoff and Russo returned as joint heads of creative control for WCW which span the Millionaires club verses New Blood Angle.
On that same show, Kidman came out and called out Hulk Hogan for what he said to him all those months before. Hogan came out sparking the impromptu match that ended when Bischoff got involved with the steel chair, nailed Hogan (which by the way, I caught Hogan doing the blatant blade right before he got hit in the match) Which helped sparked it.
It had great promise and Kidman was in the right, but of course he was the heel just like the rest of the New Blood and naturally fell victim to Hogans B.S. politics and got buried.
So Kidman had a purpose but got screwed in the end.
I hope that clears things up a bit.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Feb 26, 2008 14:07:50 GMT -5
The feud between Hogan and Kidman did have promise, but it all sparked whenever Vince Russo first too over as head of creative control during his first reign in WCW. In the very very beginning of the Russo ran WCW Nitro. They showed a Russo SMASH TV clip of Hogan with his luggage walking out of the arena and getting into his car, as the reporter and camera tried to get a word from him, he replied, and I and I am paraphrasing here, but I believe that this was his almost exact quote... "I'll be damned if I'll be working with the likes of Billy Kidman. Then fast forward to a few months later when Bischoff and Russo returned as joint heads of creative control for WCW which span the Millionaires club verses New Blood Angle. On that same show, Kidman came out and called out Hulk Hogan for what he said to him all those months before. Hogan came out sparking the impromptu match that ended when Bischoff got involved with the steel chair, nailed Hogan (which by the way, I caught Hogan doing the blatant blade right before he got hit in the match) Which helped sparked it. It had great promise and Kidman was in the right, but of course he was the heel just like the rest of the New Blood and naturally fell victim to Hogans B.S. politics and got buried. So Kidman had a purpose but got screwed in the end. I hope that clears things up a bit. What Nitro was that on BTW? And as for being buried, it's not like he had a great personality to begin with, the guy wasn't that over and should not have been put against Hogan as honestly he's not a threat to him or the other top card guys like Sting, Nash, Goldberg, Booker, DDP. I don't think he was buried personally, especially as he was the heel and not the face. Russo trying to push Kidman as a threat to the maineventers is laughable and if he was that over he would've gotten over huge in WWE. The only thing memorable about him is his weak SSP and banging Torrie Wilson. But everyone has their views on it. |
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Post by Rocky Van Heineken on Feb 26, 2008 14:09:57 GMT -5
I really loved Hogan's character during this feud. It wasn't Hollywood, it wasn't Red and Yellow. He was just Hulk Hogan. If only he had some different music than the Real American knock off.
Kidman was not the guy to feud with Hogan. I don't care what Hogan-haters say. Hogan's the biggest name in the history of wrestling and they give him Kidman to work with? Even if Kidman won CLEAN, would people say "Oh, wow, here's Billy Kidman. He's a big name now"? IMO, no. People would say "WTF is WCW thinking having Kidman beat Hogan?"
WCW should have had Awesome and Hogan feud, with Awesome establishing some sort of legend killer gimmick, similar to Orton. But then again, this IS WCW 2000. Nothing was supposed to make sense.
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Mac
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Mac on Feb 27, 2008 9:31:09 GMT -5
I remember so little from this time in WCW. I know on its face the New Blood v. Millionaire Club fued sounded like a good idea and had me interested, but the fact I cant remember any of this stuff leads me to believe the execution was pretty awful.
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fg76
Dennis Stamp
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Post by fg76 on Feb 27, 2008 13:01:32 GMT -5
I hated Billy Kidman with a passion, and him feuding with Hogan was Russo's way to bury Hogan and embarass him. Hogan should have been destroying Goldberg, not wrestling some cruiserweight punk that even a old man like Hogan could have beaten in a shoot. All Hogan would have needed to do was choke him with his hands, and choke the runt. Kidman had no talent. Sure he could flip-flop and moonsault -- while Hogan could do real shoot wrestling like kicking and punching. The only thing unreleastic about Hogan is hulking up and the big boot. The rest was real!
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