Krimzon
Crow T. Robot
This guy is the man!
R.I.P. Deadpool
Posts: 43,870
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Post by Krimzon on Jun 3, 2008 15:27:14 GMT -5
TNA gets WNBA like ratings. Its a niche program that caters to the most hardcore fans. Just like Women's Basketball. Just because the women's part gets higher ratings doesn't make it a draw. Its still an insignifgant portion of the viewing audience watching it. Your casual wrestling fan doesn't know TNA exists. Your casual wrestling fan does not and never will care about serious womens wrestling. Thats why the crowd eats up a pudding match or a lingere pillow fight but sits on their hands during an I Quit Match. Casual wrestling fans don't care about women's wrestling huh? So I guess my TV was faulty last night. I could've sworn I heard the crowd erupt when Melina dove on Beth. I could've sworn I heard the crowd erupt when Mickie made her entrance. Maria is over. Mickie is over. Melina is over. Beth is over. Michelle McCool is over. Candice was over. Ashley (God only knows why) was over. Trish Stratus & Lita were over. Chyna was over. Sable was over. Even Alundra Blaze/Madusa was over. Exactly which side of your neck are you talking out of?
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Above Average
Wade Wilson
Being Held Down by the Man and Several "Women"
Old School Tope Con Fiveo!!!
Posts: 25,137
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Post by Above Average on Jun 3, 2008 15:36:59 GMT -5
I never thought I'd care about WWE womens wrestling, ever. ...and recently they've proven me wrong. Well I admit that Melina/Beth wasn't the worst thing I've ever saw. I wasn't completely bored or making a sandwich or something. Still the worst match on the card, but it wasn't as bad as most. No. The worst match on the card was the kinky First Blood match.
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Post by Robbymac on Jun 3, 2008 15:43:33 GMT -5
TNA gets WNBA like ratings. Its a niche program that caters to the most hardcore fans. Just like Women's Basketball. Just because the women's part gets higher ratings doesn't make it a draw. Its still an insignifgant portion of the viewing audience watching it. Your casual wrestling fan doesn't know TNA exists. Your casual wrestling fan does not and never will care about serious womens wrestling. Thats why the crowd eats up a pudding match or a lingere pillow fight but sits on their hands during an I Quit Match. Casual wrestling fans don't care about women's wrestling huh? So I guess my TV was faulty last night. I could've sworn I heard the crowd erupt when Melina dove on Beth. I could've sworn I heard the crowd erupt when Mickie made her entrance. Maria is over. Mickie is over. Melina is over. Beth is over. Michelle McCool is over. Candice was over. Ashley (God only knows why) was over. Trish Stratus & Lita were over. Chyna was over. Sable was over. Even Alundra Blaze/Madusa was over. Exactly which side of your neck are you talking out of? Chyna was over because she was a freak, the rest of them are over because they are hot, with the exception of Alundra Blayze who I would disagree with your assesment of being over. You know who the most over women in wrestling have been? Trish-smoking hot blonde Sunny-valet/manager Liz-valet Sherri-manager (over more as Savage's manager than she ever was a wrestler) Lita-Edge's Whore/Hardy's Manager/Hot Punk Chick Chyna-Freakshow Bodyguard I honestly can't think of a single woman who got over with a huge cross section of the audience because of her wrestling ability. And as I said, I fast forwarded through the match last night, but my guess would be it was a weird crowd. I was at Judgment Day and watched a dead crowd through the triple threat. The crowd was dead Sunday Night for what is being lauded as a great match between Beth and Melina. But to the original point, most crowds are gonna pop when you have a gorgeous woman come out. The majority of the crowd is teenage boys. Once the match starts the intrest is typically gone.
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greeby
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 7,088
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Post by greeby on Jun 3, 2008 15:43:39 GMT -5
TNA gets WNBA like ratings. Its a niche program that caters to the most hardcore fans. Just like Women's Basketball. Just because the women's part gets higher ratings doesn't make it a draw. Its still an insignifgant portion of the viewing audience watching it. Your casual wrestling fan doesn't know TNA exists. Your casual wrestling fan does not and never will care about serious womens wrestling. Thats why the crowd eats up a pudding match or a lingere pillow fight but sits on their hands during an I Quit Match. Casual wrestling fans don't care about women's wrestling huh? So I guess my TV was faulty last night. I could've sworn I heard the crowd erupt when Melina dove on Beth. I could've sworn I heard the crowd erupt when Mickie made her entrance. Maria is over. Mickie is over. Melina is over. Beth is over. Michelle McCool is over. Candice was over. Ashley (God only knows why) was over. Trish Stratus & Lita were over. Chyna was over. Sable was over. Even Alundra Blaze/Madusa was over. Exactly which side of your neck are you talking out of? Candice over? When she stopped doing the bisexual tease thing and was out to be a serious wrestler, I can't remember her getting any crowd pops. Michelle? You gotta remember she appears on a taped show which has a reputation of piping in cheers and boos when the E wants to. She goes over to ECW, which they can't edit afterwards, and she comes out to crickets. Ashley? If it wasn't for these escort accusations, she'd be gone already. Why do you think she was bundled off to do Survivor for six months? They don't do that with someone who is valuable to the show.
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Post by Robbymac on Jun 3, 2008 15:46:45 GMT -5
Well I admit that Melina/Beth wasn't the worst thing I've ever saw. I wasn't completely bored or making a sandwich or something. Still the worst match on the card, but it wasn't as bad as most. No. The worst match on the card was the kinky First Blood match. Of the mens matches I'd have to disagree. I think it was either the Falls Count Anywhere or the Last Man Standing. Falls Count Anywhere because of the contrived ending and LMS because of the rushed ending (although thats not their fault) Really nothing was bad on that card. As I said, even the divas weren't terrible.
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Post by salsashark on Jun 3, 2008 15:51:15 GMT -5
Really, it's all in the booking. Melina, Beth Phoenix, Mickie James and maybe a couple of other women in that decision could probably work a really solid feud if they were stripped of a lot of the BS (Photoshoots, bad gimmick matches, Mickie's music). I pray for the day when I see a four star women's match headlining a PPV.
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Post by Robbymac on Jun 3, 2008 15:57:17 GMT -5
Really, it's all in the booking. Melina, Beth Phoenix, Mickie James and maybe a couple of other women in that decision could probably work a really solid feud if they were stripped of a lot of the BS (Photoshoots, bad gimmick matches, Mickie's music). I pray for the day when I see a four star women's match headlining a PPV. I'd pray for a night of kinky lovin with Trish Stratus, but that ain't happenin either.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 3, 2008 17:00:09 GMT -5
Ever hear of the Edit/Modify button? It's your friend. Don't be afraid to use it.
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Bocuma
ALF
720+???
Posts: 1,238
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Post by Bocuma on Jun 3, 2008 17:08:09 GMT -5
Yeah, why would we want to watch attractive females wrestle when we can watch sweaty males wrestle?! I'm totally with you! If you're gonna use the "OMG WATCHING DUDEZ WRESTLE IS TEH GAY" argument you shouldn't be watching wrestling at all. I just find that whole macho "women belong on the sidelines" argument a little goofy when, at the end of the day, we're all watching oiled up dudes roll around. Also, if you want a healthy debate, a ROLLESEYES LOL smiley doesn't really help much.
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Post by Robbymac on Jun 3, 2008 19:28:28 GMT -5
If you're gonna use the "OMG WATCHING DUDEZ WRESTLE IS TEH GAY" argument you shouldn't be watching wrestling at all. I just find that whole macho "women belong on the sidelines" argument a little goofy when, at the end of the day, we're all watching oiled up dudes roll around. Also, if you want a healthy debate, a ROLLESEYES LOL smiley doesn't really help much. First of all this is not some macho stance. I have no problem with a promotion like SHIMMER; TNA having a Knockout only show; even WWE having Women's wrestling as its own brand. Second I have no problem with women. I'm not one of these that think they should stay home and cook and clean, shouldn't vote or anything like that. I just don't think its that marketable to a wide audience as a serious entity. I don't think the majority of the audience will ever take it seriously, and therefore don't see the point in WWE wasting its time with trying to build up a Women's division when the time could be better spent building up their mid-card and tag team divisions with guys who can put on infinitely more entertaining matches then even the best women could. I realize this stance probably comes off making me look like a sexist pig which couldn't be further from the truth.
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Post by Widow's Peak on Jun 3, 2008 19:48:08 GMT -5
I just find that whole macho "women belong on the sidelines" argument a little goofy when, at the end of the day, we're all watching oiled up dudes roll around. Also, if you want a healthy debate, a ROLLESEYES LOL smiley doesn't really help much. First of all this is not some macho stance. I have no problem with a promotion like SHIMMER; TNA having a Knockout only show; even WWE having Women's wrestling as its own brand. Second I have no problem with women. I'm not one of these that think they should stay home and cook and clean, shouldn't vote or anything like that. I just don't think its that marketable to a wide audience as a serious entity. I don't think the majority of the audience will ever take it seriously, and therefore don't see the point in WWE wasting its time with trying to build up a Women's division when the time could be better spent building up their mid-card and tag team divisions with guys who can put on infinitely more entertaining matches then even the best women could. I realize this stance probably comes off making me look like a sexist pig which couldn't be further from the truth. I'm sorry, I don't buy the argument that eliminating the ten minutes a week that your average Divas match would stimulate the mid-card or the tag-team division. Eliminating women's wrestling is not going to give Val Venis a renewed singles push, give Londrick the push they they deserve or bring Colt Cabana up from developmental. It will, however, leave more time for HHH promos and that "sure to be better than any women's match" epic of Santino vs. Cousin Sal.
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Post by Robbymac on Jun 3, 2008 19:53:21 GMT -5
First of all this is not some macho stance. I have no problem with a promotion like SHIMMER; TNA having a Knockout only show; even WWE having Women's wrestling as its own brand. Second I have no problem with women. I'm not one of these that think they should stay home and cook and clean, shouldn't vote or anything like that. I just don't think its that marketable to a wide audience as a serious entity. I don't think the majority of the audience will ever take it seriously, and therefore don't see the point in WWE wasting its time with trying to build up a Women's division when the time could be better spent building up their mid-card and tag team divisions with guys who can put on infinitely more entertaining matches then even the best women could. I realize this stance probably comes off making me look like a sexist pig which couldn't be further from the truth. I'm sorry, I don't buy the argument that eliminating the ten minutes a week that your average Divas match would stimulate the mid-card or the tag-team division. Eliminating women's wrestling is not going to give Val Venis a renewed singles push, give Londrick the push they they deserve or bring Colt Cabana up from developmental. It will, however, leave more time for HHH promos and that "sure to be better than any women's match" epic of Santino vs. Cousin Sal. Its one extra match or segment. Since they've already filled up the show with as much of the top of the card as they need then it does stand to reason that the one segment we get will be from the midcard. For what its worth I'm also in favor of moving the singles midcard to one show and the tag teams to another which would do more for both then eliminating the divas.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jun 3, 2008 20:21:10 GMT -5
They need to do something abuot Katie's look. It's not that impressive when she comes out in teh same clothes she's been wearing for months, and it looks like regular clothes, not some wrestling gear. Looks like she was just thrown in there. When they finally started lettng Melina Wrestle, she started busting out that crazy bright spandex that gives her that weird ninja vibe i get from her. I also like how Melina and Mickie aren't BFF already. Fit Finlay are you back just training the women? Yeah, because nobody will ever get over wearing black tights, right. :-P Black tights aren't street clothes and in a women's match would be distinctive. The OP there was just saying having her wrestle in what she's been wearing as street clothes make her seem like a non-wrestler.
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mrjl
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,319
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Post by mrjl on Jun 3, 2008 20:21:31 GMT -5
I was stunned when I heard the reaction to Melina going apecrap on Beth Phoenix. I thought I was watching TNA for a minute...until the lame finish with that poor man's Polish Hammer. I think Beth was supposed to hit her harder.
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Post by Lazy peon on Jun 3, 2008 20:36:08 GMT -5
I really liked the match too, because it didn't have someone like Maria or Kelly laming it up.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,100
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Post by Mecca on Jun 3, 2008 20:51:23 GMT -5
I'm going to be dead honest about this, Womens wrestling in this country is a niche product, it doesn't sell or draw nationally. If you go to a show most people get up and take a piss break or go buy beer or a shirt during the womens stuff.
I don't think using TNA or Shimmer is a good example, Shimmer is a niche indy product that appeals to the hardest of the hardcore fan. TNA is still a very niche product that runs shows in front of the same fans every week and draws about a 1 rating...when the women get the highest rating it's a 1.2 if the womens match on Raw drew a 1.2 they'd have an outrage about how awful that is.
I don't personally have a problem with womens wrestling, it just doesn't draw on a top national level in this country.
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Post by Robbymac on Jun 3, 2008 21:14:37 GMT -5
I'm going to be dead honest about this, Womens wrestling in this country is a niche product, it doesn't sell or draw nationally. If you go to a show most people get up and take a piss break or go buy beer or a shirt during the womens stuff. I don't think using TNA or Shimmer is a good example, Shimmer is a niche indy product that appeals to the hardest of the hardcore fan. TNA is still a very niche product that runs shows in front of the same fans every week and draws about a 1 rating...when the women get the highest rating it's a 1.2 if the womens match on Raw drew a 1.2 they'd have an outrage about how awful that is. I don't personally have a problem with womens wrestling, it just doesn't draw on a top national level in this country. You just did a much better job than did I of explaining my exact point.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Jun 4, 2008 2:47:35 GMT -5
I'm going to be dead honest about this, Womens wrestling in this country is a niche product, it doesn't sell or draw nationally. If you go to a show most people get up and take a piss break or go buy beer or a shirt during the womens stuff. I don't think using TNA or Shimmer is a good example, Shimmer is a niche indy product that appeals to the hardest of the hardcore fan. TNA is still a very niche product that runs shows in front of the same fans every week and draws about a 1 rating...when the women get the highest rating it's a 1.2 if the womens match on Raw drew a 1.2 they'd have an outrage about how awful that is. I don't personally have a problem with womens wrestling, it just doesn't draw on a top national level in this country. who says it has to? like someone said earlier this week, Wrestling (at least WWe wrestling) should be a 3 ring circus where you have somethng you're into. Some people say Women will never be taken seriously, but others would also say serious "wrestling" (a la ROH) will never be taken seriously, and some people swear Sports Entertainment is ruining the business, but hey as long as we all get something we want, for free on a weekly (depending on how many shows you watch a week) basis, what's the big deal?
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,100
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Post by Mecca on Jun 4, 2008 2:50:22 GMT -5
I'm going to be dead honest about this, Womens wrestling in this country is a niche product, it doesn't sell or draw nationally. If you go to a show most people get up and take a piss break or go buy beer or a shirt during the womens stuff. I don't think using TNA or Shimmer is a good example, Shimmer is a niche indy product that appeals to the hardest of the hardcore fan. TNA is still a very niche product that runs shows in front of the same fans every week and draws about a 1 rating...when the women get the highest rating it's a 1.2 if the womens match on Raw drew a 1.2 they'd have an outrage about how awful that is. I don't personally have a problem with womens wrestling, it just doesn't draw on a top national level in this country. who says it has to? like someone said earlier this week, Wrestling (at least WWe wrestling) should be a 3 ring circus where you have somethng you're into. Some people say Women will never be taken seriously, but others would also say serious "wrestling" (a la ROH) will never be taken seriously, and some people swear Sports Entertainment is ruining the business, but hey as long as we all get something we want, for free on a weekly (depending on how many shows you watch a week) basis, what's the big deal? I actually have 0 issue with what you're saying there should be an absolute mix of everything. I think the basic point is though, a very seriously booked womens division is not going to draw any better than one booked around pudding matches. I think you can make money with a certain female or 2 but in regards to the entire division, I don't think that'll ever happen in North America.
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Post by DeuceDominoMark on Jun 4, 2008 3:19:13 GMT -5
No, not really. It is still girls wrestling. Mickie, Beth, Melina, Katie, Victoria, and Natalya are better than a lot of the men WWE employs. If you add Cherry to that list (what can I say? I just can't stop marking for her, Deuce or Domino), I'd say QFT!
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