The Dark Knight Thread *SPOILERS*

[The Lodger]

Jul 21, 2008 23:45:31 GMT -5 Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action said:

Well, I see what you guys are saying.

I'm just saying I've read Batman comics my whole life, watched the cartoons, bought the underwear. Everyone knows how much I love Deadpool, but what people don't know is that Batman is my second favorite character and was #1 before 'Pool took that spot.

As a lifelong fan, I do like the real grittiness, but I do realize where Batman comes from also and I don't think it's completely right to always ignore that.

As man who was raised in Gotham City, I see what you're saying about expanindg horizons, especially with Bane, but to me the Dark Knight is not a one shot with Bane, but the equivalent of an origin story. Without breaking Batman's back, Bane is just another strong guy, a smart stong guy. I just don't see taking him seriously unless he breaks the bat.

Again, I'm not saying Nolan couldn't make it work, in fact if anyone could, it'd be him.

[DSR]

Well, I see what you guys are saying.

I'm just saying I've read Batman comics my whole life, watched the cartoons, bought the underwear. Everyone knows how much I love Deadpool, but what people don't know is that Batman is my second favorite character and was #1 before 'Pool took that spot.

As a lifelong fan, I do like the real grittiness, but I do realize where Batman comes from also and I don't think it's completely right to always ignore that.

You know I agree with you, Deadpool. I've given basically the same schpiel on this board numerous times. I think a lot of the resistance to the fantasy stuff comes from the fact that the Burton/Schumacher series was so full of it that it went completely ridiculous. And the Nolan series has been so good without it, I could see where one would think that a shift towards sci-fi would be very "looks like we're going back to camp." People seem to feel that sci-fi/fantasy and realistic "grit" are an uneasy match, which is a theory only rarely disproven (Cronenberg's The Fly, Carpenter's The Thing, and the original Alien come to mind, but those include elements of horror, so I'm not entirely sure).

I dunno, just a thought I had.

[Kevin Hamilton]

Bane's a plot device, not a character. Outside of the whole 'breaking his back' thing ( which by the way he never woulda been able to do had he not have every other villain wear Bats down for ten issues) has Bane ever done ANYTHING of note? Outside of that one story, have his subsequent appearances in the last fifteen years meant a thing?

[Maidpool w/ Cleaning Action]

Jul 21, 2008 23:53:59 GMT -5 DSR said:

Well, I see what you guys are saying.

I'm just saying I've read Batman comics my whole life, watched the cartoons, bought the underwear. Everyone knows how much I love Deadpool, but what people don't know is that Batman is my second favorite character and was #1 before 'Pool took that spot.

As a lifelong fan, I do like the real grittiness, but I do realize where Batman comes from also and I don't think it's completely right to always ignore that.

You know I agree with you, Deadpool. I've given basically the same schpiel on this board numerous times. I think a lot of the resistance to the fantasy stuff comes from the fact that the Burton/Schumacher series was so full of it that it went completely ridiculous. And the Nolan series has been so good without it, I could see where one would think that a shift towards sci-fi would be very "looks like we're going back to camp." People seem to feel that sci-fi/fantasy and realistic "grit" are an uneasy match, which is a theory only rarely disproven (Cronenberg's The Fly, Carpenter's The Thing, and the original Alien come to mind, but those include elements of horror, so I'm not entirely sure).

I dunno, just a thought I had.

Blade Runner!

Also, you really get what I'm saying. I don't want the series to turn it's back on Nolan's vision, I don't want it to get silly. But I wouldn't mind being reminded "Hey, we ARE watching Batman... a comic book movie."

[Mother]

Jul 21, 2008 23:53:59 GMT -5 DSR said:

People seem to feel that sci-fi/fantasy and realistic "grit" are an uneasy match, which is a theory only rarely disproven (Cronenberg's The Fly, Carpenter's The Thing, and the original Alien come to mind, but those include elements of horror, so I'm not entirely sure).

Could it work? It would be very tough, but I'd rather them not open that can of worms since it would be more like opening pandora's box. The difference between something like the Fly and Batman, captivating something of that magnitude would take up a large portion of the film and take away from what we've seen in the last two. I'd like to see origin stories from a couple of villians but it would have to be something that could be attained in the first 40 minutes or so, something along the lines of genetic mutation or chemical compound reaction might just undo it for a lot of people, especially me. I'd rather continue down the path we've already started, no shortcuts.

[THE Dinobot]

To be a bit off topic of what you dudes are discussin', due to not being smart...Tim Robbins would be a neat Arnold Wesker, or perhaps I'm wrong, as per usual. And not as if they'll place him in any movie, so I digress and now back to the good stuff...

[Smokey McTrees]

Jul 21, 2008 14:12:11 GMT -5 jamofpearls said:

Jul 21, 2008 14:10:42 GMT -5 Clash, Never a Meter Maid said:

The theater I went to was 100% adult attendance- which was good, because I would not take a 7 or 8 year old to see Dark Knight.

nor would I, he's twelve, so I'm wondering how he would like it.

I took my ten-year old. And we both marked hard. He loved it. Of course when your dad is the biggest guy around you don't scare easy, 'cause you know you just may end up like that too!

[Spankymac is sick of the swiss]

I think my idea, if they're gonna go heavy on a viral campaign like they did with Dark Knight, I think Riddler's the way to go. Do some more of those fake news shows showing images of random Gotham buidlings with ?'s spray-painted on them(Like, they're doing a profile on say...Gordon, and have a man on the street interview, and in the background, on a brick wall, is a huge ?), one page websites with cryptic riddles, the whole nine. The tagline would be, and I'm stealing this from a friend, "Guess who?"

[Mother]

One thing I thought I'd add from what I was saying earlier about The Dark Knight, I don't know why but the little bat boomerang things he had, it looked like he had a neat little stack of 5 or so inside foam padding, when I think it would be easier to assume he just had a cardboard box full of those things and that he just grabbed a handful before he left. I'm sure he's lost hundreds of them.

[Smokey McTrees]

Jul 21, 2008 23:24:29 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

Black Mask. I'm the only one championing it, but by gum I'll champion it.

I thought of this too...great idea..and maybe Professor Milo? Forcing Batman to expound upon the concepts Lucius brought up near the end of the film? Like the fine line between hero and obsessive maniac?

[Smokey McTrees]

What about Lady Shiva or KGBeast? Or when we talk about Clayface, what about the one who melts people when he touches them, Preston Payne? That would be gruesome and tragic!

Hugo Strange?


Or what about adopting the Deacon Blackfire storyline? Wow, that might rock!

[AFN: Judge Shred]

Really, i think a Talia/Riddler combo is the way to go. Maybe now that Bats is on the run, Nigma decides to track him down using his brain, and some where along the line he gets twisted.Talia can be a love interest for Bruce who is manipulating thigns behind the scenes and he never realizes it.

[lotus]

I dunno if it's been mentioned yet but when Bruce asked Fox if the suit protected against dogs he made a comment about it protecting against cats. A friend of mine thinks that it's a hint for Catwoman being in the third movie. Just saying, it's it done right instead of Halle Berry, it could be good.

[Brother Coyote]

Mr. Freeze isn't EASY to do, but there's a simple way to retcon it, and it would fit in with the universe pretty well I think.

Go steam punk instead of future tech =p

Picture a loose 50s style diving suit with a clear Mr. Freeze beaker style top with his jaw obscured just a bald head and those goggles (those wonderful goggles). his gun shoots liquid nitrogen from a tank off his back, but you NEED the voice box. That cold emotionless mechanical courtesy phonesque voice that speaks so rationally about what he's doing.

Its not TOO fantastic and all you have to do is explain the suit keeps him alive by maintaining a near freezing body temperature.

Does it change the character's origin and storyline yea, but that's par for the course I honestly thought the guy who pulled a gun on Harvey in court was going to throw acid in his face there for a second.

I don't know who could pull off the character but I literally got blamed by my friends for Heath Ledger's death because as soon as it was announced I said "Now I gotta kill Heath Ledger" and he turned out to be AMAZING and gave us THE Joker in a movie which I have wanted so bad FOREVER. SO... I may not be the guy to ask.

Seriously my "Best Villain in History" list goes.
1. The Joker
2. Aaron the Moore from Titus Andronichus
3. Hanibal Lector

And if you know immediately the thing they have in common I will kiss you on the mouth.

[G✇JI☈A]

I don't have much knowledge of the Batman rogue gallery.

I would like to know is there any villain that Ian McShane can play?

I have been watching Deadwood recently and I think he will make a great villain. But who?

[kretchpoof]

Jul 21, 2008 15:51:02 GMT -5 macdaddysquid said:

Jul 21, 2008 15:35:00 GMT -5 sryans said:

I think Johnny Depp could be the most overrated actor of this time. Didn't he win a "best actor ever" countdown here? Beating out Daniel Day-Lewis, Marlon Brando, and Robert freaking DeNiro! Apparently his performance as Jack Sparrow was better than Deniro as Travis Bickle, Vito Corleone, and Jake LaMotta.

All of those actors are overrated dude. Depp is easily better then then those three.

Though I don't want to see Depp in a Batman movie either, I would rather see him in in gangster movies and Sin City 2 and such. I am not feeling the Mad Hatter either. Killer Croc or Clayface is the way to go. I have been saying that since Batman Begins. OR The return of Ra's Al Ghul would make me happy

So wait, you think that De Niro and Brando are overrated, and yet you think that Josh Hartnett could handle the role of the Joker? Huh? The guy has the range of a cucumber.

[The Lodger]

Jul 22, 2008 4:47:41 GMT -5 G✇JI☈A said:

I don't have much knowledge of the Batman rogue gallery.

I would like to know is there any villain that Ian McShane can play?

I have been watching Deadwood recently and I think he will make a great villain. But who?

I would INVENT a villain for Ian McShane if I had to, just to have McShane in the series. A mob boss or something.

[Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story]

Has anyone read the movie novelization yet? It's pretty good, gives the Scarecrow a little more to do in the beginning at least. It details the events in his life from the "Fear itself" scene in Batman Begins to where we find him in The Dark Knight.

[The Lodger]

Jul 22, 2008 0:01:14 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

Bane's a plot device, not a character. Outside of the whole 'breaking his back' thing ( which by the way he never woulda been able to do had he not have every other villain wear Bats down for ten issues) has Bane ever done ANYTHING of note? Outside of that one story, have his subsequent appearances in the last fifteen years meant a thing?

One in particular is No Man's Land.

The thing about Bane, is that Batman is unable to beat him, even though he is off venom. Bane and Batman talk about Batman's inability to beat Bane, simply because of a mental block that Batman placed on himself.

Although he's kind of been reduced to a thug for hire, Bane has appeared lots of times, he hasn't been crippling super heroes, but the scars of what happened run deep for Batman, and they are re opened everytime Bane rears his head.

So I disagree that Bane is simply a "plot device." As his character, as Deadpool brought up, can be used in multitude of different angles regarding the Dark Knight.

For now though I'm sticking with the Riddler/Two Face with Talia coming up.

[Threadkiller [Classic]]

My choices for possible villain, while keeping in mind that this is a more realistic universe that Nolan has created, are as follows:

1) If you get rid of the "Ghost Zone" and all the weird alien elements, I say Morrison's Prometheus would be a hell of a match-up, especially if you get someone as aggressive as Bale for the role. What's also great about Prometheus is that Catwoman ties into his story, as she's the one who eventually helps Batman to defeat him. So you could have your cake and eat it too by throwing Catwoman into the equation.

2) I would actually LOVE if they cast Catwoman as a "cougar" (no pun intended) and actually had Michelle Pfeiffer reprise the role. I think it'd be awesome if Catwoman were older and not necessarily a youthful, vivacious vixen. It could be played that since she's been "on the beat" (so to speak) as a vigilante longer than Batman, he could learn a thing or two from her. Of course, this would mean we wouldn't see her origin story, but really, the reason TDK flowed so well was that there weren't any villain origin stories weighing it down like in other superhero efforts. You could also conflict his attraction to Catwoman with his continued grief over Rachel. Bruce doesn't know whether he can move on or not. Catwoman continues to test his resolve as he is torn between temptation/lust and justice/fidelity to Rachel's memory. It writes itself.

3) I would love to see the Hush storyline played out on film, as the story features Bane and having him together with Hush automatically fulfills "the rule of two" that a lot of superhero movies suddenly appear to have when it comes to villains. However, in this film series, Thomas Wayne isn't a doctor. So you remove a lot of Hush's motives for hating the Wayne family, unless you're able to somehow show that Thomas Wayne is directly responsible for saving Hush's mom as a boy.

4) Hugo Strange. A man who wants to overtake the role of Batman for himself? It could be really interesting, as it's a meaty role. However, The Dark Knight already shot this idea in the foot by having multiple Batmen. If Strange wanted to take over being Batman, what would be stopping him from just doing it?

Basically, whoever the villain may be, it needs to be someone you don't need CG for. Nolan has already said he does things in the old fashioned way (another reason I LOVE these movies. I'm sick to death of CGI everything, although I understand why it's used, what with that guy being killed during a car stunt in the shooting of TDK). So no Killer Croc, Clayface, or Mr. Freeze. Besides, even if those latter three didn't require CG, they don't fit in with the more realistic universe Nolan's created anyhow.


REAL QUICK QUESTION, BTW: Does anyone know what Rachel was going to say the second before she blew up? She started to say something, but then the explosion went off. I know it wasn't accepting Harvey's proposal, because she already said minutes before that her answer was "yes." But she started to say something else, and I was wondering if anyone else had any thoughts on what. I might have missed the clues, so maybe it's obvious and I just missed it. Any help?