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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Aug 18, 2008 9:12:40 GMT -5
Ok, I'm seeing a lot of praise for this match (match of the year, decade, best ever) and yes it had some nice spots and the ending was pretty cool with the firey pit of hell, but ...
This was not a Hell in a Cell match, this was TLC with a cage. Seriously how many times did the cell get used in either a physical or mental way? A brief bit where Edge has face cheese gratered by Undertaker and the spear through it, that was it physically wise.
Whilst psychologically no one was going to interefere (Vickie and her gang put Edge here and they don't want to mess with the Undertaker) and no one was trying to escape (Undertaker doesn't do running away, and Edge went all psycho so wasn't in running away mode either) So the cell was pointless.
Also if this is a hell in a cell why was no one busted open? I mean I know they don't have to, but it is kind of expected in Hell in a Cell to have some blood.
I'd easily argue you could have taken the cell away and the match would have been the same with out it.
This isn't match of the year, decade or even the best Hell in a Cell (It's not even the best TLC). This was an average match with some cool spots, that's it.
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Post by Cooler Than Sliced Bread on Aug 18, 2008 9:19:52 GMT -5
^^^^^^^^^^
Word!
Hell In A Cell is supposed to be BRUTAL!
I expected somebody to get busted open, Taker and Edge to
get on TOP of the cell. Mick Foley has set quite a standard.
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Bones58
Don Corleone
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Post by Bones58 on Aug 18, 2008 9:21:50 GMT -5
I regard it as a really good match, it had great psychology, good pace, brutal spots and you could tell both men put there all into it.
That said I couldn't help but be disappointed the match ended with a simple Tombstone, after all the Foley stuff and Edge turning psycho, I was excited we were gonna see one big megaspot. Sadly it never happened. Unless you count the chokeslam off the ladder spot, which was pretty tame to anything they could have done on top of the cell.
Definitely a Match of the Year Candidate, but hardly the best match of the decade or anything...
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Aug 18, 2008 9:26:52 GMT -5
There's no way anybody will ever go on top if the cell remains its current height. It's WAY too risky. The Cell's main purpose is to confine people and provide a battleground more dangerous than most other matches. It sure as hell was last night. Ladders, tables, chairs, steps, and other weapons have all been used in HIACs before. Anything goes in the Cell, including tables, ladders, chairs, and whatever else you can find. A TLC Match requires one to climb a ladder to get a belt. I didn't see that last night. Without a hanging belt, the weapons are simply there to hurt people. And it made sense to have them in there. The Cell is Undertaker's specialty. TLC is Edge's. So it makes sense he wanted familiar elements in the match.
And to call this match "average" is SEVERELY underrating it. Nothing was average about it. Not one damn thing.
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Post by superkickkid on Aug 18, 2008 9:30:46 GMT -5
Yeah, just rewatched the Cell match. I just don't see what some people found so phenomenal about it.
The weapons felt like weapons for the sake of weapons. The crowd seemed dead except for the high spots. Only real thing that sticks out with Edge's acting was him saying "I understand" once. Just felt like the match dragged.
Not that it wasn't a good match, I loved the ending with Taker revisiting everything on Edge that Edge inflicted on him. However before that point, it didn't feel like Taker was trying to kill Edge. The spear through the Cell was great. Overall though, it didn't feel like it was anything special. There was plenty of stuff in there that while great, I felt like I had seen it all before. Like the spear through the announcers table, it was phenomenal the first time in Cena/Umaga when Umaga ran across the tables. It is like when they tried to recreate the Shelton/HBK superkick ending in the second Angle/HBK match.
I didn't get the same feeling that I got from Edge during his series with Foley, he wasn't vicious enough. Edge is best when he is like a snake, remember in that match when against Funk and Dreamer where he speared Beulah? Now that was greatness. I didn't see that in this match. Occasionally, Edge would have the intense shark look about him. But like when he went to spear Taker through the announcers table. He was like, ok time for this spot. And it felt like that a lot.
And I also hated how they cut back to La Familia a few times during the match.
They advertise HIAC as being this bloody, gritty, nasty affair. It really didn't seem like a struggle for either man nor was it very dramatic until the very end. Unlike the Brock/Taker or HBK/Taker HIAC's where it is a bloodbath and that one of them could kill the other one.
It basically turned into a TLC match with a few cage spots. I realize why Edge was using them, but then what is the point of the cage. It just feels like crappy booking of the match.
Look at the high spots, only one of them used the Cell. Other than that, spear through the ANNOUNCERS TABLE. Chair-elbow off a ladder through a table. Chokeslam through 2 tables. etc...
Seriously, why can't they just use the cage? You know, cause it is a CAGE MATCH!
The fact is that they could redo pretty much this entire match without the cage there.
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Post by Big fat failure turtle on Aug 18, 2008 9:37:48 GMT -5
I couldn't help but be disappointed the match ended with a simple Tombstone I thought the match ended with Taker chokeslamming Edge through 2 tables, immediatley spearing him, followed by a skull-shot with a camera and a con-chair-to, and THEN the Tombstone piledriver...?
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Aug 18, 2008 9:41:07 GMT -5
So people wanted this to be like every other "hit or miss" HIAC instead of standing out on its own with spots we haven't seen in a HIAC yet?
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MOONDOG
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Post by MOONDOG on Aug 18, 2008 9:43:29 GMT -5
Simple
How else were they gonna sell ANOTHER Edge/Taker match
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Bones58
Don Corleone
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Post by Bones58 on Aug 18, 2008 9:43:53 GMT -5
I couldn't help but be disappointed the match ended with a simple Tombstone I thought the match ended with Taker chokeslamming Edge through 2 tables, immediatley spearing him, followed by a skull-shot with a camera and a con-chair-to, and THEN the Tombstone piledriver...? I was comparing it to the fact that the match could have ended with one big spot off the cell, but ENDED in a tombstone, I realise how it got to that point. The point was, they could have just done all that stuff in any other cage match, so it made the cell a little redundant. But no doubt, the buy-rate was pumped up by using the Hell in a Cell stipulation, so in that case mission accomplished. I was just really looking forward to that one big spot that never came.
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Post by Big fat failure turtle on Aug 18, 2008 9:49:17 GMT -5
I was just really looking forward to that one big spot that never came. Well (and I'm not trying to pick a fight with you here), your disappointment stems from your own expectations. Sure, I'd have loved to have seen Edge spear Taker off the top of the cell and through an exploding Spanich announcer table, but I honestly think the match was good enough as it was without a ludicrously risky high spot.
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Post by Next Level was WRONG on Aug 18, 2008 9:54:46 GMT -5
I hated this match.
It had no flow to it what-so-ever. It was just, mindless brawling followed by a big spot that had no build-up and had no rhyme or reason for being in the match. They went through three tables, an announcers desk, the steel steps and the announcers desk and amazingly managed to make them all mean smurf all.
It was like watching a backyard indie fed on a bigger budget.
Now, I will say this, the use of the television camera and Taker using the con-chair-to were very nice. Its just that by then I just didn't care.
I also want to second the hate for the shots of La Familia. If there had been any flow in the match that would have killed it.
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Bones58
Don Corleone
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Post by Bones58 on Aug 18, 2008 9:56:11 GMT -5
I was just really looking forward to that one big spot that never came. Well (and I'm not trying to pick a fight with you here), your disappointment stems from your own expectations. Sure, I'd have loved to have seen Edge spear Taker off the top of the cell and through an exploding Spanich announcer table, but I honestly think the match was good enough as it was without a ludicrously risky high spot. Yes it does. However, I wasn't built up for the big spot at the Taker/Batista, because well.. it was never hinted at. But this was with the Foley promo - "You need to find that Edge", explaining to Mick how those two big bumps changed his life and Edge just going completely psycho in general. You got the feeling he was going to do something drastic, and it was built like that. Plus Undertaker was never going to lose on his return match and rumours were circulating that Edge would be taking a break, so him taking time off due to one memorable bump wouldn't exactly be a unreasonable conclusion to come to. And during the match you could hear the crowd booing when Taker dragged Edge back in the Cell, they were expecting something special to happen aswell.
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Post by 'Foretold' Joker on Aug 18, 2008 10:03:36 GMT -5
So people wanted this to be like every other "hit or miss" HIAC instead of standing out on its own with spots we haven't seen in a HIAC yet? No, I was expecting a Hell in a Cell match not a TLC match camoflaged with the Hell in a Cell name. The entire match could have been done with out the cell and it would have made no difference. Now a good hell in a cell doen't need a Foley goes flying moment (see the Orton, Brock or HBK ones), but it does need a reason for the cell being there. Top three reasons for a cell match 1. Keep wrestlers together, prevent an escape. 2. Prevent interference from associates to help against unstoppable force. 3. High level of Brutality The first does not apply here, as neither wrestler had a reason for escaping (If it was still opportunist edge then it could have been a factor but we had psycho edge instead.) Now I though this was going to be a major point of the match, If not from La Familia seeking revenge for Edge being a dick, then from Mick forbeing put through a table. Also Edge threatened to take Vickie to hell with him, yet he didn't even get her to ringside. lame. So we are left with brutality, and yes we got it from the tables ladders and chair. But this is a Hell in a Cell match and really those shouldn't be needed, a lack of anyone being busted open despite monitor, camera, chair, ladder, and table attacks didn't help. Overall it was an average match with some cool spots, but from the build up it got this lacked any decent in ring story telling/psychology or cell interaction.
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Post by Big fat failure turtle on Aug 18, 2008 10:04:11 GMT -5
Well (and I'm not trying to pick a fight with you here), your disappointment stems from your own expectations. Sure, I'd have loved to have seen Edge spear Taker off the top of the cell and through an exploding Spanich announcer table, but I honestly think the match was good enough as it was without a ludicrously risky high spot. Yes it does. However, I wasn't built up for the big spot at the Taker/Batista, because well.. it was never hinted at. But this was with the Foley promo - "You need to find that Edge", explaining to Mick how those two big bumps changed his life and Edge just going completely psycho in general. You got the feeling he was going to do something drastic, and it was built like that. Plus Undertaker was never going to lose on his return match and rumours were circulating that Edge would be taking a break, so him taking time off due to one memorable bump wouldn't exactly be a unreasonable conclusion to come to. Ah, well I hadn't heard about Edge being ready to take some time off, so yeah, with that thought in mind, I guess you were more than justified in expecting a cataclysmic spot to end the match. Carry on
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Bones58
Don Corleone
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Posts: 1,474
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Post by Bones58 on Aug 18, 2008 10:07:45 GMT -5
Yes it does. However, I wasn't built up for the big spot at the Taker/Batista, because well.. it was never hinted at. But this was with the Foley promo - "You need to find that Edge", explaining to Mick how those two big bumps changed his life and Edge just going completely psycho in general. You got the feeling he was going to do something drastic, and it was built like that. Plus Undertaker was never going to lose on his return match and rumours were circulating that Edge would be taking a break, so him taking time off due to one memorable bump wouldn't exactly be a unreasonable conclusion to come to. Ah, well I hadn't heard about Edge being ready to take some time off, so yeah, with that thought in mind, I guess you were more than justified in expecting a cataclysmic spot to end the match. Carry on As you were
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Post by Stab Sword on Aug 18, 2008 10:47:49 GMT -5
I thought it was okay but i expected a hell of a lot more with all the buildup. I expected barbed wire, fighting on top of the cell, maybe even fire but yeah it was TLC in a Cell.
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Post by J-Man R. on Aug 18, 2008 11:06:57 GMT -5
Shouldn't this thread be locked since there is already an Edge Taker thread?
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Post by The Verdict on Aug 18, 2008 11:10:11 GMT -5
I think its being overrated people are comparing it to HBK/Flair? are you kidding me? From the build up to the match should've been alot more extravagant I saw nothing besides part of the cage falling off that made me say wow it was a glorified street fight with no blood and it should have ended with edge winning then undertaker in frustration "sends him to hell" that would have felt alot better IMO but yeah I agree the cell was just a marketing tool good thing i didn't buy SS
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Post by CM Crünk is teh 'CRAP! on Aug 18, 2008 11:12:59 GMT -5
I think the reason why there was no blood was because the PPV was rated PG, and WWE has like a no blood policy now since they are PG and they don't want kids going around blading themselves.
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unholy
AC Slater
They like Flair more that me??!!
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Post by unholy on Aug 18, 2008 11:23:13 GMT -5
I dont know why this match has been getting the ridiculous amount of praise that it has, it was a GOOD match, not a GREAT one.
The way the match panned out was pretty wierd for me as earlier in the week I had posted a topic here asking what people would think of a Hell In A Cell TLC match, which is basically what we saw last night.
IMO the best Cell match was Cactus Jack Vs Triple H from No Way Out 2000, that match had everything, a superb storyling heading into it and some amazing spots too, Foley going through the top of the Cell and then through the ring aswell was pretty impressive.
It seems in last nights match that more time was put into arranging tables, ladders and chairs then was put into making it entertaining.
Cell matches are supposed to be brutal (probably why its my faveourite stipulations for a match), last nights match wasnt brutal, it just seemed to scripted.
In my eyes the CM Punk- JBL match far supassed the main event in terms of brutality, some of the shots JBL was throwing at Punk were seriously stiff and the match finished with Punk's head cracked open.
Even though Undertaker and Edge are two of my faveourite wrestlers, this match seemed like a let down.
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