Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,080
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jul 8, 2008 0:50:43 GMT -5
I hate the Vulture Squad, and who thought it was a good idea for Jigsaw to ditch the mask? Regardless, I still can't stand them, don't understand their appeal and think Jack Evans is a horrible wrestler and one of the worst offenders of being a spot monkey I've ever seen. Sorry, just had to get that off my chest Yes.
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Post by x on Jul 8, 2008 2:01:46 GMT -5
It makes me sad that this could be considered an unpopular opinion. It makes me sad too. Despite what these boards or the rest of the internet wrestling fans will tell you, a wrestler with little to no athleticism that the fans can connect with and are willing to pay to watch is a SMURFUVA lot more important then some 100 lb albino with "workrate" that puts people to sleep. Pigment = Ratings.
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Post by perpetualn00b on Jul 8, 2008 2:08:07 GMT -5
Vader's just not as good as you think he is.
Rey Mysterio > any of the Radicalz
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King of Fighters
Unicron
Me and you, we get Superman, were from the streets
Posts: 3,418
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Post by King of Fighters on Jul 8, 2008 4:11:53 GMT -5
In ring skills>Character for me, you can have the best gimic ever but if you suck in the ring (Hogan) I don't wanna see you. I do realize that character is important but I'll take in ring skills over it.
A wrestlers look shouldn't matter at all.
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Post by Solid Stryk-Dizzle on Jul 8, 2008 4:17:16 GMT -5
Larry Sweeney is one of the most overrated performers in the buisness today, next to Mr.Kennedy.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jul 8, 2008 5:59:55 GMT -5
Unmasked Kane > Masked Kane, and that comes from someone who marks for masks in wrestling. His facial expressions and his acting skills are just amazing. I really liked the Billy & Chuck wedding angle. John Cena is actually pretty entertaining. The Black Machismo and the Stone Cold Shark Boy gimmicks are horrible (well, to be honest, any rip-off gimmick is horrible to me). Apparently, liking both Shawn Micheals AND Bret Hart is inconceivable for most fans, so I guess it's unpopular that I like them both. Same thing about both the WWE and TNA. Steve Austin is a douchebag. I understand why the fans of the original ECW might not like the WWE version of the product (there's a strong lack of this whole "extreme" thing), but I don't think it's as horrible as most people seem to believe. It's just the WWE doing more WWE, I don't see what's so outrageous about that. I don't think the WWE tried to bury the wCw or the ECW with the Invasion angle. Thing is, when they hire someone, the WWE always wants to recreate them, and sometimes it's just not necessary. If every wrestling fan was like KongaDave (aka the "still real to me dammit" guy), the IWC and wrestling fandom as a whole would be a much much better place. Santino Marella is not the new The Rock, or at least not yet. Sorry but he's still far below the People's Champ in both terms of wrestling and promo skills. Replacing someone's nickname with "stupid" is not enough to impress me. Chris Jericho is still awesome. <insert a federation's name here> is not ignoring a wrestler's skills just because they're not giving him a push yet. You know, a wrestling federation has A LOT of employees, and all of them just can't be in the spotlight at the same time. I highly doubt backstage politics are as common as the IWC seems to believe, and in the rare occurrences a decision might be altered by politics, it doesn't do s*** to one's career (I especially love how someone once said that Hogan buried Flair in the wCw... yeah, Flair got the most successful career in pro wrestling's history, so politics definitely don't change anything). I like Cole, West and Tenay. WSX was badass. CZW blows and is a disgrace to anything even remotely tied to pro wrestling. Goldberg was much better in the WWE than in the wCw. Sorry but I just can't remain interested in a guy who squashes jobbers in 15 seconds on a weekly basis. At least when he was in the WWE, we saw him... you know... wrestle. I don't think the WWE was trying to take profit of Eddie death with the Eddiesploitation. I think they genuinely wanted to pay him homage. Too bad Vince McMahon is one of the clumsiest guys in the World. Vince isn't the devil. Seriously, stop acting like everything he does has evil motivation. I think most of the time he accepts an offensive angle or something like that, it's not that he doesn't care about people's feelings, it's just that he doesn't know them. He doesn't take anything seriously, not even death, so he doesn't realize other people do take some things very seriously and personally. I don't mind some Triple H in my main event. Speaking of him, Triple H DID put other guys over. Batista, Randy Orton, John Cena, Jeff Hardy, anyone? Bobby Lashley was great. I genuinely like Snitsky. His feud against Kane was the only good thing that came out of the Matt/Lita/Edge/Kane fiasco. If it wasn't for Trish Stratus, the WWE Women's title would have disappeared years ago. Fortunately, when Trish left, Mickie arrived and the WWE realized people do care about female divisions when they have women who can actually wrestle. Lita is... well, see my comment about Steve Austin. While I preferred the old belt, the spinner WWE belt isn't that bad looking. But hey! It was created by John Cena so we MUST hate it blindly without thinking. Vickie Guerrero is worst heel ever. I hate her and not in a kayfabe, Ric Flair, "I hope she shows up so she gets his ass beat" kind of way, but in a legit, X-Pac, "for Pete's sake make her shut up and don't show her anymore" kind of way. Well, to be fair, the comparison with X-Pac isn't right, at least the guy did have a handful of good moments. Rey Mysterio would have had a World Title run even without Eddie's death. He's been successful in AAA, wCw, ECW and WWF/E, that's quite a respectable curriculum vitae if you ask me. Eddie's death only made it quicker. I still think Eugene was a coll character, though even I must admit the heel turn was a horrible idea. The Boogeyman gimmick sucks and has always sucked. Umaga is better than anyone who has ever done the wild savage gimmick, and that includes Afa and Sika, Kamala, etc... Today's product is just as good if not better than the old-school product, it's just that people cheered a lot more easily back in the days. Seriously, people who cheered for the Ultimate Warrior could have cheered for anyone. No, no-one else could have led the Hulkamania the way Hogan successfully did. Just because I know wrestling is staged doesn't make me a smark. The definition of a smark is a guy who knows insider stuff (or believes he does, which is a more accurate description in 99.99% of the cases). I am not a smark because I don't know anything about the wrestlers' legit problems and neither do news sites, and unless you personally know some of them, neither do you. (man, that was a long list)
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Post by dlg3000 on Jul 8, 2008 7:48:46 GMT -5
If Lita is a douchebag, then so is Edge. Edge is a married man who cheated on his wife with his best friend's girlfriend. They are both talented, but as a wrestler, Trish was better than Lita.
Chyna was an average wrestler but she was no role model for women. In that regard, she was highly overrated. Her book was pure trash and that was how she came across. In fact, she is total douche judging from her book.
Kevin Nash as far as wrestling should just retire, and so is Scott Hall.
What is CZW and why is it so bad?
I agree about the Boogeyman. His character is one who I mark for, but is the worst wrestler I have ever seen. The man doesn't even wrestle the basics. He is a worse wrestler than the Great Khali could ever hope to be. I have seen footage from Japan and Khali does know at least 8 moves.
From what I have seen in terms of actual in-ring ability, Sandman just sucks.
Tommy Dreamer is good in his role, but I do believe that Colin Delaney will end up doing a heel turn on him one day. That would be interesting, because I find him dull.
Ted Dibiase, Jr is the "next" Randy Orton, but with more potential.
I agree, Stone Cold is a selfish asshole and a douchebag, but a great wrestler and good performer.
The Rock may rub people the wrong way, but he seems far more likeable as a human being so he is deserving of all of his success. He is a pretty good actor. In fact, I hated it when people thought Rocky sucked when he was the Blue Chipper. He was just a generic young wrestler with potential to me. He could have been far worse. See the Boogeyman.
Ric Flair was a far better wrestler when he was younger, especially against Ricky Steamboat in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s, and not just because of age.
Kerry Von Erich was quite underrated.
If you believe the dirt sheets, Kevin Von Erich and Bruce Hart are dirtbags.
I like Jim Cornette.
Batista is fun to watch.
Baron Von Raschke was cool and I love the claw. It is one of my favorite wrestling moves and it would still make a great finishing move today.
I will always have a soft spot for Miss Elizabeth and my all accounts, including the dirt sheets, she was a classy person. She will be greatly missed. (I'm sure that it is not unpopular, but still.)
Who is Larry Sweeney?
Is it me or has Kurt Angle lost way too much weight? His head is getting too small.
I hope Karen Angle does not become a wrestler. Some people just don't belong in a wrestling ring and she is one of them, but I have a feeling we will be seeing her in a couple of matches.
Goldberg was the most exciting wrestler in WCW's later years.
Sometimes, I like seeing high flyers, including spot monkeys. Spot monkeys are great entertainers even if they are not the best storytellers.
In lucha libre, being a storyteller is a requirement not an option. Just read up on the history of lucha libre. It is just different that is all.
I miss Rick Rude and he was one of the best heels out there. I don't know of any wrestler that is an equivalent.
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jul 8, 2008 9:59:01 GMT -5
What is CZW and why is it so bad? Combat Zone Wrestling. A federation of the trashy hardcore garbage wrestling type, which has e-fedesque ridiculous matches. Basically, imagine the original ECW with 4 times more weapon IN EVERY MATCH, but without the talent and skills that made ECW good, and you have it. So basically, those are just indy wrestlers throwing each other into lighttubes and barbed wire in a failed attempt at being controversial. Oh and there's almost no wrestling. Seriously, I've seen lots of trailers and I don't remember seeing a single pro wrestling move, not even a DDT or a Suplex. MAYBE some kind of botched Plancha type of dive every now and then, but it's just awful. This federation is actually more about showing fountains of blood and torn flesh than pro wrestling. I think what Chris Hero said about the state of mind of the federation and its fans sums it up pretty well.
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Post by MGH on Jul 8, 2008 10:14:37 GMT -5
What is CZW and why is it so bad? Combat Zone Wrestling. A federation of the trashy hardcore garbage wrestling type, which has e-fedesque ridiculous matches. Basically, imagine the original ECW with 4 times more weapon IN EVERY MATCH, but without the talent and skills that made ECW good, and you have it. So basically, those are just indy wrestlers throwing each other into lighttubes and barbed wire in a failed attempt at being controversial. Oh and there's almost no wrestling. Seriously, I've seen lots of trailers and I don't remember seeing a single pro wrestling move, not even a DDT or a Suplex. MAYBE some kind of botched Plancha type of dive every now and then, but it's just awful. This federation is actually more about showing fountains of blood and torn flesh than pro wrestling. I think what Chris Hero said about the state of mind of the federation and its fans sums it up pretty well. Dude, no offense, but you're so far off with the "weapons in every match", "no wrestling", "more blood and flesh than wrestling" stuff that it isn't even funny. They do the tournament of death show for that stuff. Sometimes you'll have one-two matches on a show where weapons even make an appearance at all. Best of the Best is a show dedicated to nothing BUT the wrestling. And yes, this is coming from someone who actually DOES follow the company. If you're just relying on youtube compilations and things of that nature, you're getting about 10% of the overall picture.
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,080
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jul 8, 2008 10:19:18 GMT -5
While I preferred the old belt, the spinner WWE belt isn't that bad looking. But hey! It was created by John Cena so we MUST hate it blindly without thinking. Or, maybe, I just don't like customized Title belts. You think of that?
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The Lodger
Don Corleone
Wino is not pleased.
Posts: 1,394
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Post by The Lodger on Jul 8, 2008 10:26:39 GMT -5
I never got the Super Dragon love.
I really really really like Super Nova!
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Post by SsnakeBite, the No1 Frenchman on Jul 8, 2008 11:16:18 GMT -5
Combat Zone Wrestling. A federation of the trashy hardcore garbage wrestling type, which has e-fedesque ridiculous matches. Basically, imagine the original ECW with 4 times more weapon IN EVERY MATCH, but without the talent and skills that made ECW good, and you have it. So basically, those are just indy wrestlers throwing each other into lighttubes and barbed wire in a failed attempt at being controversial. Oh and there's almost no wrestling. Seriously, I've seen lots of trailers and I don't remember seeing a single pro wrestling move, not even a DDT or a Suplex. MAYBE some kind of botched Plancha type of dive every now and then, but it's just awful. This federation is actually more about showing fountains of blood and torn flesh than pro wrestling. I think what Chris Hero said about the state of mind of the federation and its fans sums it up pretty well. Dude, no offense, but you're so far off with the "weapons in every match", "no wrestling", "more blood and flesh than wrestling" stuff that it isn't even funny. They do the tournament of death show for that stuff. Sometimes you'll have one-two matches on a show where weapons even make an appearance at all. Best of the Best is a show dedicated to nothing BUT the wrestling. And yes, this is coming from someone who actually DOES follow the company. If you're just relying on youtube compilations and things of that nature, you're getting about 10% of the overall picture. I'm relying on what I saw and on what wrestlers who actually worked for that company said, and I rest my case.
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Ricky Ruckus
Trap-Jaw
best spinebuster in the business
Posts: 270
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Post by Ricky Ruckus on Jul 8, 2008 12:05:03 GMT -5
anyone who says people hate the spinner belt because its john cenas belt, well they are just wrong. i hate the belt because its tacky and looks like a toy. which i assume is what they were going for so they could sell them by the truckloads to the kids. the fact that it was cena who introduced it just gives me another reason to dislike him. not the other way around.
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Dragonfly
Samurai Cop
...is no Barry Windham.
Posts: 2,489
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Post by Dragonfly on Jul 8, 2008 12:25:10 GMT -5
- Despite popular opinion to the contrary, not everything WCW was bad, stupid, or forced.
- Vince Russo's plan of having Tank Abbott beat Sid for the WCW title was really a great idea. I would have loved to see it actually happen.
- TNA is "WCW Part II." This is not a bad thing.
- Because of this, TNA will never be taken seriously by hardcore smarks, as everything that came from Bischoff-era WCW is automatically dumb. (Note: I'm talking about the Brian Alvarez's of the world, not guys like Lance Storm or even Hollywood.)
- Larry Sweeney isn't that great of a heel. Yes, he's got fantastic mic skills and whatnot, but he doesn't really do anything different.
- Sweeney is, however, one of the best face wrestlers out there today. It's a crime that, until recently with his turn in Chikara, only IWC fans have known this.
- Chikara is a bit overrated as far as I'm concerned. Way too wacky for my tastes, and the fans tend to get on my nerves. (Note: Not talking about anyone here. I'm being honest. You guys are fine by me. I'm talking about a certain Chikara fan board.) I will say this, however - the Vin Gerard storyline is freaking awesome. I'm loving that.
- Hustle isn't brilliant. It's just dumb. Really, really dumb. Like "I dropped ten IQ points just by watching this" dumb. And this is coming from a person who thinks that Hard Gay is really, really funny.
- There are a ton of talented, deserving wrestlers out there that get ignored because they choose apply their craft in what's not traditionally considered to be a "wrestling hot spot" (Philly, Florida, SoCal, etc).
- MMA is a fad. I'm not saying that it will die, because it won't. I'm just saying that it won't stay this popular.
- Technical proficiency is not a suitable replacement for character and storytelling.
- "Big" doesn't always equal "bad." At the same time, not all small cruiserweights are great.
- Even world champions are allowed to have squash matches from time to time. (See Punk/Snitsky.)
- Just because an announcer isn't Jim Ross or Gordon Sollie doesn't mean he automatically sucks. Many of us still have fond memories of Gorilla Monsoon, and he was supposedly terrible.
- Announcers, especially those who aren't used to working live TV (Michael Cole and Mike Tenay), are allowed to make mistakes every now and again. Mocking them for it is right up with the "you f'd up" chant from the old ECW in terms of "annoying things that smarks do." (Note: Mike Adamle is exempt from this. There is a difference between flubbing a line and being horrible.)
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,080
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jul 8, 2008 12:28:17 GMT -5
. (Note: Not talking about anyone here. I'm being honest. You guys are fine by me. I'm talking about a certain Chikara fan board.) The CHIKARAFans.com board? Oh, those guys are complete assholes over there, so that;s understandable.
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mo
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
"Here are the young men, the weight on their shoulders..."
Posts: 16,661
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Post by mo on Jul 8, 2008 12:47:49 GMT -5
While I preferred the old belt, the spinner WWE belt isn't that bad looking. But hey! It was created by John Cena so we MUST hate it blindly without thinking. Or, maybe, I just don't like customized Title belts. You think of that? No dammit, you're a no good smark and that's the only reason you hate it and you know it! Let's see, I thought the whole "I'm sorry, I love you" thing was really corny. -The people who will tell you over and over that "Vince doesn't care about the internet!!!" and then swear up and down that they'll do things to rile the smarkz! need to make their minds up. -When it comes to The Rock/John Cena debate, I am one of those who will say that Rock had better delivery. I just feel Rock had a much better swagger and a more powerful/effective voice when he spoke. Although I will say some of his post-Nation face promos were really bad.
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,080
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jul 8, 2008 12:53:15 GMT -5
Or, maybe, I just don't like customized Title belts. You think of that? No dammit, you're a no good smark and that's the only reason you hate it and you know it! Balderdash! I'm a Apple Pie-eating Mark and everyone here should know that!
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Post by Spankymac is sick of the swiss on Jul 8, 2008 13:00:49 GMT -5
. (Note: Not talking about anyone here. I'm being honest. You guys are fine by me. I'm talking about a certain Chikara fan board.) The CHIKARAFans.com board? Oh, those guys are complete assholes over there, so that;s understandable. I'm not gonna go that far, mostly because I don't wanna start a board war, or flame another board(a no-no here, by the by, just saying), but also because there are some good people over at Chikarafans. The Hug Fairy(A good friend of mine, actually), Wiggy, TheNudeSmurf, and TauronNox all seem like good eggs.
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Johnny B. Decent
Patti Mayonnaise
Had one once
Everybody's Favorite Arizonian.
Posts: 31,080
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Jul 8, 2008 13:04:43 GMT -5
The CHIKARAFans.com board? Oh, those guys are complete assholes over there, so that;s understandable. I'm not gonna go that far, mostly because I don't wanna start a board war, or flame another board(a no-no here, by the by, just saying), but also because there are some good people over at Chikarafans. The Hug Fairy(A good friend of mine, actually), Wiggy, TheNudeSmurf, and TauronNox all seem like good eggs. I go that far, because I Cross The Line!
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Post by The Tank on Jul 8, 2008 13:08:07 GMT -5
I'm not gonna go that far, mostly because I don't wanna start a board war, or flame another board(a no-no here, by the by, just saying), but also because there are some good people over at Chikarafans. The Hug Fairy(A good friend of mine, actually), Wiggy, TheNudeSmurf, and TauronNox all seem like good eggs. I go that far, because I Cross The Line! Unpopular opinion... "Cross The Line" is a stupid motto. What does that even mean?
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