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Post by parder on Oct 23, 2008 16:48:01 GMT -5
I think the reason guys like Loki and others might be frustrated that Paul E. isn't offering many solutions is that Paul E. probably doesn't really know the solution himself. He's not intimately involved with the people who work for these companies any more to get a good sense of what would work for them. He can only comment on what he sees on TV these days.
BUT I notice those who criticise him mostly don't deny that Paul has identified a problem that is plaguing major league American wrestling promotions - a stale outdated product. I think the only point Paul was trying to make in this article is that the worst thing Vince and Dixie/JJ can do is to simply ignore the growing problem, rather than at least try to do something about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2008 18:12:28 GMT -5
People who are complaining about Heyman voicing his opinions on pro wrestling need to give their heads a shake. If Heyman is not entitled to voice their opinion, we most certainly are not. Why does Paul Heyman have a nationally-run newspaper column to voice his? He ran a wrestling promotion for years, we did not.
End of line.
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Post by Loki on Oct 23, 2008 19:11:06 GMT -5
People who are complaining about Heyman voicing his opinions on pro wrestling need to give their heads a shake. If Heyman is not entitled to voice their opinion, we most certainly are not. Why does Paul Heyman have a nationally-run newspaper column to voice his? He ran a wrestling promotion for years, we did not. End of line. Ok, now this is getting tiresome... WHAT is Heyman's solution?I've read NOTHING constructive, zero, nada, zilch! Just the usual rant on wrestling being stale blah blah young talents blah blah blah same stuff yadda yadda yadda... Paul, WE GOT IT! We know it already. I'd rather hear the ubersmarkish "Paul London WHC Champ" or "fire Cena, HHH and Batista and replace them with Styles, AmDrag and Morishima". It may not be a viable solution, under every possible aspect, but AT LEAST it's a shot at a solution. Heyman is entitled to say whatever he wants, but the fact is he's sitting in his turris eburnea playing the same old song and he's praised just because he was the man behind ECW. I don't care if it's Paul Heyman or Jim Herd, Lance Storm or Random Internet Fan saying it: the "wrestling is stale and boring" monologue is as stale and boring as wrestling itself, especially if it doesn't try to propose a plan. ANY PLAN. And until Heyman's yesmen can give me a hint of Heyman having some sort of proposal/idea/solution, I won't stop calling him and them out.
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Post by Roger Smith on Oct 23, 2008 19:15:47 GMT -5
Heyman is diagnosing the problem but not giving a solution to fix it.
Why some of you people can't grasp this, I don't know.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 23, 2008 20:16:03 GMT -5
Ok, now this is getting tiresome... WHAT is Heyman's solution?Why are you fixated on the notion that you need to know the solution to say what's right, in order to say what's wrong? It is incredibly more complicated to 'certify' a possible decision as "optimal" or "not optimal" than to find the optimum of all possible decisions. Is he right or is he wrong? What are there more iterations of: "Paul Heyman rants in the Sun" or "Diva X is so hot I feel the need to tell you about just how I pleasure myself thinking of her" photoshoot threads on this board? .. or, "Santino is awesome / rubbish" threads on this board? Or "GREATEST PPV / DIVA / FINISHER / WTFever" tournament threads on this board? We all like to express our opinions, even if they're a bit redundant. What is so noble about you repeatedly expressing your opinion that Paul Heyman is ignoble to repeatedly express his? And will your answer to that change when you consider that he has run a wrestling promotion and you have not? What if he feels that this is not the solution? Must he list every possible course of action that he also feels will not fix the problem? "By the way, putting all the belts on the Brooklyn Brawler will not make things better". Etc. He's praised because he is saying something accurate, as far as I can tell.
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Post by parder on Oct 23, 2008 20:29:53 GMT -5
People who are complaining about Heyman voicing his opinions on pro wrestling need to give their heads a shake. If Heyman is not entitled to voice their opinion, we most certainly are not. Why does Paul Heyman have a nationally-run newspaper column to voice his? He ran a wrestling promotion for years, we did not. End of line. Ok, now this is getting tiresome... WHAT is Heyman's solution?I've read NOTHING constructive, zero, nada, zilch! Just the usual rant on wrestling being stale blah blah young talents blah blah blah same stuff yadda yadda yadda... Paul, WE GOT IT! We know it already. I'd rather hear the ubersmarkish "Paul London WHC Champ" or "fire Cena, HHH and Batista and replace them with Styles, AmDrag and Morishima". It may not be a viable solution, under every possible aspect, but AT LEAST it's a shot at a solution. Heyman is entitled to say whatever he wants, but the fact is he's sitting in his turris eburnea playing the same old song and he's praised just because he was the man behind ECW. I don't care if it's Paul Heyman or Jim Herd, Lance Storm or Random Internet Fan saying it: the "wrestling is stale and boring" monologue is as stale and boring as wrestling itself, especially if it doesn't try to propose a plan. ANY PLAN. And until Heyman's yesmen can give me a hint of Heyman having some sort of proposal/idea/solution, I won't stop calling him and them out. Dude.. you need to calm down. You sound a bit obsessed. Paul Heyman writing a newspaper article is not worth getting that angry about
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Hanzo
Dennis Stamp
"You want Cena to go to ECW?!"
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Post by Hanzo on Oct 23, 2008 20:41:50 GMT -5
If Paul Heyman is such a bad businessman, then why doesn't he just go to a college, take some Marketing Management classes and learn how to properly operate one? It's not like that particular flaw can't be fixed.
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Post by Hulkshi Tanahashi on Oct 23, 2008 21:00:26 GMT -5
If Paul Heyman is such a bad businessman, then why doesn't he just go to a college, take some Marketing Management classes and learn how to properly operate one? It's not like that particular flaw can't be fixed. Or, he could just hire someone to handle the business aspect. That would be a lot easier.
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randomranter
Dennis Stamp
When you grow up....... YOU'RE GONNA BE WROOOOOONG!!!!
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Post by randomranter on Oct 23, 2008 21:24:00 GMT -5
People who are complaining about Heyman voicing his opinions on pro wrestling need to give their heads a shake. If Heyman is not entitled to voice their opinion, we most certainly are not. Why does Paul Heyman have a nationally-run newspaper column to voice his? He ran a wrestling promotion for years, we did not. End of line. Ok, now this is getting tiresome... WHAT is Heyman's solution?I've read NOTHING constructive, zero, nada, zilch! Just the usual rant on wrestling being stale blah blah young talents blah blah blah same stuff yadda yadda yadda... Paul, WE GOT IT! We know it already. I'd rather hear the ubersmarkish "Paul London WHC Champ" or "fire Cena, HHH and Batista and replace them with Styles, AmDrag and Morishima". It may not be a viable solution, under every possible aspect, but AT LEAST it's a shot at a solution. Heyman is entitled to say whatever he wants, but the fact is he's sitting in his turris eburnea playing the same old song and he's praised just because he was the man behind ECW. I don't care if it's Paul Heyman or Jim Herd, Lance Storm or Random Internet Fan saying it: the "wrestling is stale and boring" monologue is as stale and boring as wrestling itself, especially if it doesn't try to propose a plan. ANY PLAN. And until Heyman's yesmen can give me a hint of Heyman having some sort of proposal/idea/solution, I won't stop calling him and them out. Ok, I'll put this bluntly: I value the opinion of a man considered to be one of the greatest minds in the business, ran his own wrestling promotion, and has decades of experience over the opinions of a random internet fan who has nothing productive to contribute other than telling him to shut up.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Oct 24, 2008 2:46:25 GMT -5
People who are complaining about Heyman voicing his opinions on pro wrestling need to give their heads a shake. If Heyman is not entitled to voice their opinion, we most certainly are not. Why does Paul Heyman have a nationally-run newspaper column to voice his? He ran a wrestling promotion for years, we did not. End of line. Ok, now this is getting tiresome... WHAT is Heyman's solution?I've read NOTHING constructive, zero, nada, zilch! Just the usual rant on wrestling being stale blah blah young talents blah blah blah same stuff yadda yadda yadda... Paul, WE GOT IT! We know it already. I'd rather hear the ubersmarkish "Paul London WHC Champ" or "fire Cena, HHH and Batista and replace them with Styles, AmDrag and Morishima". It may not be a viable solution, under every possible aspect, but AT LEAST it's a shot at a solution. Heyman is entitled to say whatever he wants, but the fact is he's sitting in his turris eburnea playing the same old song and he's praised just because he was the man behind ECW. I don't care if it's Paul Heyman or Jim Herd, Lance Storm or Random Internet Fan saying it: the "wrestling is stale and boring" monologue is as stale and boring as wrestling itself, especially if it doesn't try to propose a plan. ANY PLAN. And until Heyman's yesmen can give me a hint of Heyman having some sort of proposal/idea/solution, I won't stop calling him and them out. Wow, you really hate Paul Heyman. Anyway, it's easy. His solution is that WWE should relate more to popular culture. He's been saying pretty much the same thing recently, and giving examples to prove his point. That's pretty much it. And just because we agree with his opinion doesn't make us, or other people yesmen. He does have a solution. Make WWE relate more to what's going on in pop culture, which it isn't.
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The_ripoff_artist
Unicron
Just Regular Ol' Folk
R.I.P. Todd Newton 1989-2009
Posts: 2,791
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Post by The_ripoff_artist on Oct 24, 2008 2:52:20 GMT -5
I don't doubt Heyman is a smart man, but lets not forget money wise tthis guy is a joke. There are wrestlers he still owes money too, and he ran his so called child ECW into the ground.
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Post by Loki on Oct 24, 2008 4:01:12 GMT -5
Ok, I'll put it bluntly too.
Heyman is NOT giving us a solution, and some of you are just giving him a verbal blowjob because he's Paul Heyman.
"Relating more to pop-culture" is a tautological statement that doesn't offer an actual solution. Not to mention every time Vince clumsly tried to do that, he got lambasted for the very same reason. Remember K-Fed? or the Britney references?
I don't hate Heyman, I would say the exact same things had it been Bret Hart or Ultimate Warrior.
Oh, and about that "he's Paul f'n Heyman and you're a random internet fan": so what? The moment he'll actually contribute again to the business, I'll be more than happy to see what his ideas will bring. Until then, he's just another guy ranting sitting at home.
And I hope you all will remember of that "...and you're just an internet fan" line the next "WWE are idiots, they don't know crap" thread ;D
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The_ripoff_artist
Unicron
Just Regular Ol' Folk
R.I.P. Todd Newton 1989-2009
Posts: 2,791
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Post by The_ripoff_artist on Oct 24, 2008 5:14:19 GMT -5
WWE has been around longer then most of us have been on this planet. So yes the Mcmahons do know what they are doing. Sure some of the angles are not that great, but what people fail to look at is that not every fan is an internet junkie. Who all seem to think that Bret Hart, and Paul Heyman are some kind of gods. Well the fact is Paul Heyman can type all the articles he wants, but he will always be the killing blow of the old ECW, and I think he hates Mcmahon because Vince has seceded in means that Paul wish he could have with ECW.
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Post by simplydurhamcalling on Oct 24, 2008 5:45:32 GMT -5
He may have been the 'killing blow' of the old ECW but without him it never would have existed at all.
Why should Paul offer his in depth solutions for TNA and WWE if he has any? He gets paid to write an article on wrestling in the Sun and he'd get paid exactly the same if he did. What if WWE and TNA then took up his solutions, used them to their benefit and made a crap load of money?
If you're good at something, don't do it for free!
And I can't understand people saying he should 'do something about it' like it's that easy! The same could be said for all of us. We should all just go and start our own promotions because at the moment that's basically the level that Paul would have to start at.
WWE won't have him, as far as I'm aware he doesn't get on with Vince or Steph, can't remember which!
TNA, well if they wanted him they'd approach him. They could use someone like Paul imo but I don't see it happening in the near future. It seems Russo can do no wrong in Jeff/Dixie's eyes.
ROH. They have Gabe and I don't believe are looking for more writers.
Then you're down to the rest of the indies and as far as I'm aware these don't have a writing team. The owner writes and books the shows. So Paul would have to have his own promotion.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Oct 24, 2008 5:53:09 GMT -5
From reading it again, I realized he is giving more solutions then just relating more to pop culture (and mentioning Britney Spears is definitely not relating to pop culture, nor is bringing in a celebrity, it's the presentation of the show altogether).
Try new things, see what your audience listens to, looks like, etc. See who they relate to, who they may want to be, etc. Make the characters more relevant, and something they can relate to, just like what has been done in wrestling's hottest times.
And like, those are pretty good solutions. I mean, I guess he could go further and further into them, but if you just threw everything down at once, you wouldn't have anything to write about in the future, especially if you are a featured columnist. So yeah, he is actually giving solutions.
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Post by shamana on Oct 24, 2008 7:35:42 GMT -5
Actually, I thought Heyman was telling the WWE to stop only catering to Vince's needs and allow more creative license to younger, more in-tune talents - whether wrestlers or creative people. Basically make the company less centralized and give more autonomy on people to do the plot. I think he's alluded to that in other articles as well. So yeah, he's not saying that much new, but if he has a certain opinion on the business, chances are it hasn't changed that much in 2 months. Anyway, his idea - which imo would amount to a more autonomous creative department, which cooperates more with the wrestlers - is an option, and perhaps that is similar to how it worked in ECW. That doesn't mean that Vince would agree to such a move, though. From what I've heard he prefers to keep a firm grasp on plots, for better or worse. I personally think he is offering some good ideas that might benefit both WWE and TNA (his suggestion that TNA needs some decent overarching plot could be very good if implemented right ). And IMO, if nothing else Heyman is doing a decent job at his articles, seeing how we are all fired up about them. After all, being read and commented is what most online columnists are being paid for
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Post by Red Impact on Oct 24, 2008 7:42:46 GMT -5
Same thing as usual from him. He's not wrong, but he's not saying anything he hasn't said before. He's only offering the most vague of suggestions, nothing really useful.
It's like telling a basketball player who isn't shooting well that he should try to make his shots, or telling a baseball player to hit the ball more.
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Post by Handsome Halfbreed on Oct 24, 2008 8:54:17 GMT -5
I agree that the WWe needs to be more main stream but they need to be leading not following as they have been. K-Fed and Brittany were already in the news and then the WWe latched onto that for publicity. The Donald was popular b/c of his reality show and again the WWe latches on to that. Vince needs to to create his own popularity or "contraversy" amongst celebs, not just go along for the ride while they are already the talk of the town.
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Post by Bobby Womack on Oct 24, 2008 13:24:35 GMT -5
heymans really starting to disappoint me, when he started these columns he was showing a lot of class and giving great opinions, but more and more lately he just seems to be turning into a parody of what most smarks wished he would be
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2008 13:27:31 GMT -5
Same thing as usual from him. He's not wrong, but he's not saying anything he hasn't said before. He's only offering the most vague of suggestions, nothing really useful. It's like telling a basketball player who isn't shooting well that he should try to make his shots, or telling a baseball player to hit the ball more. Actually, it's more like giving examples of things that are stopping them from making their shots. The article has several contemporary examples of "what's wrong". And strictly speaking, "try your shots from a slightly different angle -- try different things until things start working out" is proactive advice, just as "hold the fort, you're having bad breaks right now" would be proactive advice.
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