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Post by chunkylover53 on Nov 6, 2008 23:58:33 GMT -5
do you agree? i thought at his peak kevin nash brought more money in then stone cold Why in the hell is Miguel Perez on that list? He was a lackey in a mediocre stable(Los Boricuas). Also, what constitutes a draw and how do you know fans flock to see that one particular person?
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 7, 2008 0:02:16 GMT -5
Someone please provide an adjusted dollar amount for all stars before I comment. For example, even though Gone With the Wind is the highest box office draw of all time, did did not bring in the highest box office. The adjusted numbers, of course, leave it untouchable up top. If that's the case, Bruno would probably be virtually untouchable, too.
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Post by royboy8 on Nov 7, 2008 0:06:18 GMT -5
To all the people that are ragging on the Bruno listing, the man debuted in the company in the early 60's and retired in 1987, selling out arenas consistently for many of those years. (including one of their all time largest grossing shows ever at Shea Stadium in 1980 where he--not Hogan or Andre-- completely drew the house). It's just a matter of adding up all those sell out revenues over 26 years as opposed to Hogan's 10. For example; You might make more allowance than me on a nightly basis, but if I have a 16 year headstart on your saving, who's going to end up with more money over all? Exactly. As for Triple H, people need to remember that he was the heel foil during the golden age of the company, and brought in a lot of nostalgia revenue in 2006 with the DX reunion. HHH was the other half of all those big money feuds in the late 90's early 2000's. He drew with Rock, Foley, Austin & Taker. if you're the other half of that main event, you're counted as co-drawing the house. As for Bret, where he lacked in the U.S., he made up for in being WWE's number one international star in those days. He held the company afloat during their domestic dark ages by drawing money abroad in places like Germany, where, for whatever reason, he was HUGE. Plus, he co-headlined one of the largest grossing shows in company history (the real attendance record unlike the fake Wrestlemania 3 fudged number) at Summer Slam '92. Davey Boy drew the house, but Bret was the foil, so that counts as him drawing it as well. It takes two to tango as they say. As for Flair, he's so low because, as mentioned, this only accounts for his WWF stint on top, which as we all know was like maybe a year and a half. Listen I have no problem with Bruno being on the list. He sold out arenas until the early 80's. He does not belong in Hogans class however because Hogan caused people all around the world to tune into and pay their hard earned money to watch him Wrestle in person and ppv, which made Millions upon Millions of Dollars for all involved. One arena(Shea stadium) for Bruno Or One arena(the silverdome) for Hogan, plus how many hundreds of thousands around the world on ppv? Get it?The two just dont compare in any way.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Nov 7, 2008 0:07:55 GMT -5
do you agree? i thought at his peak kevin nash brought more money in then stone cold Why in the hell is Miguel Perez on that list? He was a lackey in a mediocre stable(Los Boricuas). Also, what constitutes a draw and how do you know fans flock to see that one particular person? The one from Los Boricuas was his son
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Post by Andrew is Good on Nov 7, 2008 0:39:18 GMT -5
Why would you think that? Bruno was on top drawing money from the early 60s to the mid 80s, drawing people on a regular basis, and selling out arenas on a regular basis, where Hogan actually didn't sell out places as much around the old loop. Granted, Hogan IS a big money draw, but bo Hogan could be argued in having not drawn as much money as a lot of the old territory guys. A lot of people during the territory days sold their smaller areas every week, let alone every month. The Andersons for example were huge money draws in Georgia and the Carolinas, and they ran the same big town every week. Jerry Lawler has been on top being a draw in Memphis for 30 years. I'm not being anti-Hogan at all, he was a mega money draw. But I feel that some of the older guys like Bruno, Argentina Rocca (who if I'm correct was one of the first guys to come off the top rope), Buddy Rogers, Pedro Morales and others may not be recognized because they haven't been seen by as many people nowadays. I think the biggest misconception as well is that New York was the only town WWE ran. Boston, Pittsberg, Philli, Baltimore, take your pick at any of the bigger and smaller cities in the territory. Bruno would sell them all out. Madison Square Garden was like the Mid South Collisium, the Omni, the Cow Palace, or the Sportitorium. It was their biggest arena, but it wasn't the only one. I'm also big on wrestling history, and Bruno was the biggest draw in WWE history. Bruno wasnt a top Draw by the time the mid 80's came along. Hogan was responsible for huge ppv draws and was around for multiple wrestlmanias, not to mention his run a few years ago. Bruno was never responsible for a single Penny on PPV. Thats where the big difference there. No comparison The reason he wasn't a top main event draw in the mid 80s was because he was semi-retired. Vince Jr. would ask him to wrestle here and there to help draw some big houses. Plus, him and Larry Zybysko were the big draw of the Shea Stadium card, which took place in 1980. The only reason he would have been "jerking the curtain" was he didn't really wrestle anymore. Hulk Hogan was also on top when the business started on the downfall in 1991. Hogan was only on top in WWE from 84 til 92, and briefly in 93. He drew some money for a bit when he came back a few years ago, but not like in his heyday. Bruno was consistent for 20 years as a top draw, and maybe 5 as a special attraction. Hogan would be a special attraction around 1992, and his run in WWE from 02-06 when he would be around, which wasn't that much. He wasn't responsible for pay per view, because it didn't exist at that time. But it's hard to compare Hogan's run, even with pay per view to 20 years of drawing consistently on top, and 5 years after of drawing huge just off special appearances. Bruno still gets number one. Plus, he sold out Madison Square Garden over 200 times, when they ran every 6 weeks. And that's just MSG, all the other cities I mentioned (and the ones I didn't), you can only imagine how often he sold those places out.
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Post by steamboat1 on Nov 7, 2008 1:02:18 GMT -5
It is absolutely absurd for this list to put guys like Pedro Morales, Miguel Perez, John Cena, Mick Foley, Kurt Angle above Andre the Giant. From the mid 70s to about 84-85, Andre was the reason that Capitol Wrestling drew when they dared venture outside of the NYC-Philly territory. Shoot Mick Foley wasn't even in the top 5 draws of his era....let alone put him in the top 20. Now I will say this....if Cena keeps it up for 3-4 more years I will say that he is a bigger draw, but the idea that he has drawn more in his 3-4 years on top is incredibly absurd. When you heard Capitol Wrestling was coming to town in the 70/80s, you looked to see who the big guy was wrestling.
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 7, 2008 1:05:49 GMT -5
It is absolutely absurd for this list to put guys like Pedro Morales, Miguel Perez, John Cena, Mick Foley, Kurt Angle above Andre the Giant. From the mid 70s to about 84-85, Andre was the reason that Capitol Wrestling drew when they dared venture outside of the NYC-Philly territory. Shoot Mick Foley wasn't even in the top 5 draws of his era....let alone put him in the top 20. Now I will say this....if Cena keeps it up for 3-4 more years I will say that he is a bigger draw, but the idea that he has drawn more in his 3-4 years on top is incredibly absurd. When you heard Capitol Wrestling was coming to town in the 70/80s, you looked to see who the big guy was wrestling. Well, Andre was THE draw of his day, but he mostly wrestled from territory to territory, he didn't spend that much time in WWWF/WWF like Bruno or others did.
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Post by Citizen Snips Has Left on Nov 7, 2008 1:12:43 GMT -5
To clarify, does the list include things like merchandising and PPVs, or is it strictly live event attendance?
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Post by The Charismatic Enabeler on Nov 7, 2008 1:13:45 GMT -5
I don't buy anyone other than Austin being at the top. Bruno and (ugh) Hulk were huge but you didnt see 50 of their tshirts everytime you left your house. Austin 3:16 was everywhere
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longdogga
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Post by longdogga on Nov 7, 2008 1:55:00 GMT -5
about triple h he was always the other guy in the big matches
v the rock backlash v cactus jack royal rumble v austin no way out v kurt angle
these were just from the one year
not to mention his stuff with benoit hardy undertaker
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Post by Hanzo on Nov 7, 2008 1:56:01 GMT -5
Knock Knock
Who's there?
Braden Walker.
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andrew8798
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Post by andrew8798 on Nov 7, 2008 2:04:40 GMT -5
To clarify, does the list include things like merchandising and PPVs, or is it strictly live event attendance? It includes PPVs and Live Event attendance
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Post by spacepope316 on Nov 7, 2008 13:55:55 GMT -5
So if I go to a Smackdown show where I get to see Kozlov vs Triple H they get the credit for my money even though I am there to see The Undertaker?
Hell if I went to see Raw it would be to see Santino make me laugh not see Batista/Orton/Cena.
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Post by tibbo on Nov 7, 2008 14:00:41 GMT -5
If all it requires is being part of the main event to be classed as the draw, Earl Hebner should be in the top 20! This list is impressively retarded.
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Post by Mozenrath on Nov 7, 2008 14:03:45 GMT -5
So if I go to a Smackdown show where I get to see Kozlov vs Triple H they get the credit for my money even though I am there to see The Undertaker? Hell if I went to see Raw it would be to see Santino make me laugh not see Batista/Orton/Cena. That is correct. It's why it's really hard to say how Undertaker should be seen. He's an attraction, larger than life, but he's not often in the main event, but is still a major draw. It's why there can never be a perfect list. This is a pretty good list, but as it's been stated, it's got its share of flaws.
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Post by valiens on Nov 7, 2008 14:20:34 GMT -5
I'm surprised Booker T is on there. I'm also surprised it's all wrestlers. I'd think Bobby Heenan counted as a big draw for sure.
How Hogan isn't number one is beyond me.
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metylerca
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Post by metylerca on Nov 7, 2008 14:49:05 GMT -5
Could it be that those who say "bah! HHH has not drawn more than my favorite guy" just don't like HHH?
Or that you aren't reading the fact correctly?
Bruno was on a top for a long long time. Long time. He made WWE a lot of money, so it makes sense for him to be on top.
HHH has been in main events for years now.. is it the fact that he isn't a smark favorite that he cannot get his due?
It's simple, they took the numbers and the names of who main evented live events. They added them up, this is what they've got.
How hard can it be to accept these facts?
I'll bet if it was Jericho or Bret at the top, there wouldn't be complaints here.
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Post by mo on Nov 7, 2008 14:57:29 GMT -5
I wouldn't have guessed the order of the list but much of it looks to make sense. Although HHH and Taker being higher than Rock and Austin is interesting.
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Post by Roger Smith on Nov 7, 2008 15:13:12 GMT -5
Shawn Michaels was a bigger draw than Bret Hart.
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Post by King Boo on Nov 7, 2008 15:15:28 GMT -5
I don't buy anyone other than Austin being at the top. Bruno and (ugh) Hulk were huge but you didnt see 50 of their tshirts everytime you left your house. Austin 3:16 was everywhere Hogan stuff in his heyday was everywhere. EVERYWHERE.
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