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Post by Deleted on Nov 7, 2008 15:32:10 GMT -5
The thing about Bruno is that he was the primary draw during his time there. You could argue that Hogan still had the tag scene, Macho Man, Warrior, and others to draw alongside him. Bruno had Bruno. The majority of the show was "X" vs. Bruno, in a way that was even more singular than "X" vs. Hogan. Obviously, Hogan was THE draw during his time in WWF, but Bruno was there longer and had less help. Who knows if one was the bigger draw: it doesn't matter much, when you really start to think about it. It would be like picking between Lou Gehrig and Joe Dimaggio: both would stand as two of the greatest players of all time regardless if one was considered better than the other.
When Bruno lost the belt, the crowd was so absolutely astonished, so stunned, that Koloff wasn't even presented the belt and just had his arm raised three times. Sammartino has always claimed that, after he lost, he thought his hearing was damaged because he couldn't hear anything: the crowd was so silent. I have never heard of a reaction to any scripted aspect of wrestling that has ever come close to that. Just utter silence.
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Post by Dynamite Kid on Nov 7, 2008 17:40:54 GMT -5
Hunter is sure over a lot of top stars (Austin, Rock and Bret) most noticeably, not sure I'd agree with that. Does it count career length? Because HHH has been a top-draw for the past eight or nine years, whereas Bret kinda petered out once he hit WCW and was also about during a lot of slump periods.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Nov 7, 2008 18:19:49 GMT -5
I don't buy anyone other than Austin being at the top. Bruno and (ugh) Hulk were huge but you didnt see 50 of their tshirts everytime you left your house. Austin 3:16 was everywhere Hogan stuff in his heyday was everywhere. EVERYWHERE. It's also important to note that not only was Hogan's stuff everywhere, it wasn't as accessable. As I said before, you could only get his stuff in the WWF Magazines or at the shows. Austin's was at Wal-mart, wwe.com, other websites that sold wrestling gear, the shows, the magazines, etc. It was a lot difficult to get Hogan gear then Austin gear.
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andrew8798
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on 24/7 this month
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Post by andrew8798 on Nov 7, 2008 19:12:55 GMT -5
Hunter is sure over a lot of top stars (Austin, Rock and Bret) most noticeably, not sure I'd agree with that. Does it count career length? Because HHH has been a top-draw for the past eight or nine years, whereas Bret kinda petered out once he hit WCW and was also about during a lot of slump periods. Yeah it counts career length
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CM Dazz
King Koopa
Chuck
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Post by CM Dazz on Nov 7, 2008 21:04:21 GMT -5
How can a guy like Greg Valentine be above Flair
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Post by heyguesswhatidid on Nov 7, 2008 21:12:21 GMT -5
How can a guy like Greg Valentine be above Flair Flair was only in a drawing position for about a year and a half in WWE, and it wasn't really a high point in the company. The Valentine/Santana feud was one of the hottest feuds WWE ever had, especially at the time it happened.
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Post by romafan87 on Nov 8, 2008 3:22:11 GMT -5
Hunter is sure over a lot of top stars (Austin, Rock and Bret) most noticeably, not sure I'd agree with that. you must be forgetting that bret was one of the worst draws the company ever had id love to know what meltzers judging system is based on because just at a glance i have to wonder why hbk, hart, nash, larry z, benoit, kane, hansen etc are doing on it at all, and the rest of the order is rather confusing to me, especially warrior being so low no..... well according to him, during a shoot interview he produced graphs comparing how much he brought in vs auatin and his was more...just saying nash was joking Well, for starters, Bret Hart wasn't a bad draw. I've proved this in other posts that you didn't respond to. Fancy that. Fact is, Hart outdrew Michaels all over the United States as champion in addition to having a superior international record. Anyways the reason the following are on here: 1.) HBK/Hart - even in down times, when you are in the main event, you are the headliner. People usually don't pay money to see the opening act and then leave; they are their to see the top bill. HBK has longevity which brings me to... 2.) Nash - Similar to above, main evented probably as many PPVs as Shawn Michaels from 1994-1996 and then in 2003. 3.) Larry Zbsysko - Wildly successful feud that concluded at the Showdown at Shea. Look it up sometime, it was a pretty fun feud. 4.) Benoit - The model of consistency. Main evented a handful of PPVs, top of the card on many more. 5.) Kane - Has main evented more PPVs than most on the roster. Hot during the Attitude Era and always consistently in the mix for 11 years straight. 6.) Stan Hansen - Blood feud with Sammartino where he broke Sammartino's neck legitimately with a lariat in Madison Square Garden. He and Bruno sold out many, many shows together. Regenerated a very, very stale title picture. Why is Warrior so low? First off, he was only around from late 1987 until summer 1991, then again from April 1992 to September 1992 and then from April 1996 until June 1996. He main evented Wrestlemania 6, which counts for something, but then had the last match but was second on the billing in his first PPV title defense against Rick Rude, a match that received little build other than footage on the Event Center of Rude running up and down the beach. Didn't main event Survivor Series although made it to the Finale, didn't main event the Royal Rumble, and had a great match at WM7, but the build was for Hogan to reclaim the title. Disappeared for a month or two to return in time for what was probably the worst Summerslam main event in history. Returned in 1992 and was in the title match at Summerslam but wasn't the main event. Left before his scheduled main event match at Survivor Series. The fact that he has a consistent record of being in title matches but not being in the main event really says something; as does the fact that when he no-showed, shows didn't completely fall apart and he was easily replaceable. Warrior was such a bad draw that they had to rush through filming Suburban Commando because they thought Hogan would be the answer. I'm not saying that the attendance went down soley because of Warrior, but the fact that they gave him the ball and crowds stopped gathering makes it pretty evident that he had some hand in it.
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Post by romafan87 on Nov 8, 2008 3:27:10 GMT -5
To all the people that are ragging on the Bruno listing, the man debuted in the company in the early 60's and retired in 1987, selling out arenas consistently for many of those years. (including one of their all time largest grossing shows ever at Shea Stadium in 1980 where he--not Hogan or Andre-- completely drew the house). It's just a matter of adding up all those sell out revenues over 26 years as opposed to Hogan's 10. For example; You might make more allowance than me on a nightly basis, but if I have a 16 year headstart on your saving, who's going to end up with more money over all? Exactly. As for Triple H, people need to remember that he was the heel foil during the golden age of the company, and brought in a lot of nostalgia revenue in 2006 with the DX reunion. HHH was the other half of all those big money feuds in the late 90's early 2000's. He drew with Rock, Foley, Austin & Taker. if you're the other half of that main event, you're counted as co-drawing the house. As for Bret, where he lacked in the U.S., he made up for in being WWE's number one international star in those days. He held the company afloat during their domestic dark ages by drawing money abroad in places like Germany, where, for whatever reason, he was HUGE. Plus, he co-headlined one of the largest grossing shows in company history (the real attendance record unlike the fake Wrestlemania 3 fudged number) at Summer Slam '92. Davey Boy drew the house, but Bret was the foil, so that counts as him drawing it as well. It takes two to tango as they say. As for Flair, he's so low because, as mentioned, this only accounts for his WWF stint on top, which as we all know was like maybe a year and a half. Listen I have no problem with Bruno being on the list. He sold out arenas until the early 80's. He does not belong in Hogans class however because Hogan caused people all around the world to tune into and pay their hard earned money to watch him Wrestle in person and ppv, which made Millions upon Millions of Dollars for all involved. One arena(Shea stadium) for Bruno Or One arena(the silverdome) for Hogan, plus how many hundreds of thousands around the world on ppv? Get it?The two just dont compare in any way. I disagree with you, and here's why. Bruno's time simply lacked media outlets to potray wrestling as a spectacle. Was wrestling a great draw on TV in Bruno's time? Absolutely. Was there cable? Not until the very end of his run. MTV? Nope. PPV? Closed circuit was in its infancy, yet alone PPV. I'm not saying Hogan didn't do what he did or that if you put Bruno in Hogan's place at Hogan's age he could have done the same thing, but the fact remains that it's unfair to give that nod to Hogan specifically because of the available media and because the territories were still in place.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2008 3:49:41 GMT -5
you must be forgetting that bret was one of the worst draws the company ever had id love to know what meltzers judging system is based on because just at a glance i have to wonder why hbk, hart, nash, larry z, benoit, kane, hansen etc are doing on it at all, and the rest of the order is rather confusing to me, especially warrior being so low nash was joking 6.) Stan Hansen - Blood feud with Sammartino where he broke Sammartino's neck legitimately with a lariat in Madison Square Garden. Exceedingly petty detail, but Stan (who was still pretty green at the time) broke his neck with a botched body slam that the storyline said was due to the Western Lariat.
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Post by King Fox -1017 Bricksquad on Nov 8, 2008 7:26:34 GMT -5
Nope. Epic fail. I don't believe HHH should be above Austin.
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Post by angryfan on Nov 8, 2008 7:39:26 GMT -5
To throw my hat in on the Bruno/Hogan deal, I'll echo the "different eras" point. Did Hogan make "more" money? Hell yes he did, but take a few numbers into the equation, and the answer changes.
I went ahead and figured inflation from 3 years into Bruno's run (1966) and three years into Hogan's run (1987). One dollar spent on Bruno's merch was worth the same as $3.50 spent on Hogan's.
So, Hogan's earnings are automatically 3 to 1 over Bruno on that alone. Then, add in the fact that television oownership, not to mention avalable TV spots, were not as widely availabe.
What that leaves is the fact that Hogan, without taking into account his talent or how over he was or anything of the sort, already has two advantages in any poll or scenario like this. His face was seen by more people strictly based on the market availabilty, and, if you look strictly at "X dollars vs Y dollars" without realizing that, from the get go X=3.5Y, the picture will be muddled at best.
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Post by Macho Dude Handy Damage on Nov 8, 2008 8:19:10 GMT -5
Who's Argentina Rocca?
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Post by jumbo jim on Nov 8, 2008 9:10:33 GMT -5
never heard of him
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Post by Andrew is Good on Nov 8, 2008 20:38:25 GMT -5
If I'm right (which I might not be, and a bigger wrestling historian then me would have to come in with this), he was the first guy to actually do something off the top rope. He was also an amazing draw back in the day.
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Post by RedSmile on Nov 8, 2008 22:20:14 GMT -5
Did Meltzer use any facts to compile this list or did he just pull it out of his ass?
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Post by Andrew is Good on Nov 8, 2008 23:30:50 GMT -5
Did Meltzer use any facts to compile this list or did he just pull it out of his ass? I think there were legit facts used, but I'm not too sure because a lot of people tied for some reason, which wouldn't make sense unless they made almost exactly the same amount of money.
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Post by bigdaddyfive on Nov 8, 2008 23:34:52 GMT -5
Biggest drawers?
Where's Rikishi, Yokozuna or............
Oh, I see what I did there. My bad!
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Post by romafan87 on Nov 9, 2008 1:13:50 GMT -5
6.) Stan Hansen - Blood feud with Sammartino where he broke Sammartino's neck legitimately with a lariat in Madison Square Garden. Exceedingly petty detail, but Stan (who was still pretty green at the time) broke his neck with a botched body slam that the storyline said was due to the Western Lariat. I knew Bruno's neck was broken for real and I knew they credited the lariat in the storyline, and at some point, I knew that it was a bodyslam, but in my mind, it all melted together! Oops.
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Post by Gopher Mod on Nov 9, 2008 1:30:06 GMT -5
If I'm right (which I might not be, and a bigger wrestling historian then me would have to come in with this), he was the first guy to actually do something off the top rope. He was also an amazing draw back in the day. Also, the Meltz screwed up his name. It's actually Antonino Rocca. Antonio Inoki based his name off of him.
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Post by Gopher Mod on Nov 9, 2008 1:38:21 GMT -5
Nope. Epic fail. I don't believe HHH should be above Austin. I'm sorry, but I believe that HHH does deserve his place in 5th. Sure, Austin got a LOT of merch sales during his time on top from 1996 to 2002 and drew very, very well, but his power was shared with The Rock for a spell and with Trips the second half of his time on top (from 2000 onward). Add to the fact that Trips has been essentially on top for the last 9 years (even with injuries) with a lesser cast around him compared to Austin, and you get some of the major reasons as to why Trips is so high on the list. Heck, give him another few years and he'll pass both Rocca and Backlund and settle into 3rd.
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