The Unbearable Ambiguity Of Benoit

[icansleep]

I didn't see this posted anywhere, but there's a new Irv Muchnick column posted on the SLAM! website that's a very interesting read.

slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/GuestColumn/2008/12/02/7605856.html

[CrazySting]

This guy is nuts. He still thinks there was some sort of conspiracy going on, and Vince was responsible for it all.

[icansleep]

I think he brings up an interesting enough theory though. For as big of a fan as Greenberg is/was, you'd think he'd remember where he read about Nancy's demise. I know myself, there's roughly 6-7 wrestling websites I go to on something of a consistent basis and I could rattle those off if pressed about them.

I get the impression that Muchnick is looking for some sort of link, that somebody (a WWE employee) at some point that weekend leaked out that Nancy was dead somewhere online. I don't think it's too far fetched that wrestler's spend time on wrestling websites (anonymously or not) and might occasionally offer up a remark about a topic at hand. I think it'll be interesting to see if Muchnick can find that link and what implications it may have in relates to the initial police investigation.

[r.]

Dec 2, 2008 18:20:21 GMT -5 CrazySting said:

This guy is nuts. He still thinks there was some sort of conspiracy going on, and Vince was responsible for it all.

i get alot of flack for supporting the carrear of benoit but im under no allusions that ther was another killer, the level people go to explain the "benoit conspiracy" is kennedy-esq.

[CrazySting]

Dec 2, 2008 18:38:09 GMT -5 r. said:

Dec 2, 2008 18:20:21 GMT -5 CrazySting said:

This guy is nuts. He still thinks there was some sort of conspiracy going on, and Vince was responsible for it all.

i get alot of flack for supporting the carrear of benoit but im under no allusions that ther was another killer, the level people go to explain the "benoit conspiracy" is kennedy-esq.

Seriously?

[bogart]

does this dude Munchnick really hate wrestling? his uncle owned a promotion didn't he?
Every thing i have read of his is so negative about wrestling i don't really value his opinin too much.

[Asics Johnson]

Dec 2, 2008 18:44:30 GMT -5 CrazySting said:

Dec 2, 2008 18:38:09 GMT -5 r. said:

i get alot of flack for supporting the carrear of benoit but im under no allusions that ther was another killer, the level people go to explain the "benoit conspiracy" is kennedy-esq.

Seriously?

Seriously... have you actually researched the Kennedy thing? It creeps me out, and I'm no conspiracy theorist.

However, if I was, I could certainly buy into the idea that Evad's evil brother is responsible for the Benoit homicides. You never know, right? With that being said, in reality, I think Muchnick is a crazy man. I mean, let it go already.

[h]

If I were to make a list of the worst people in the world, Vince McMahon would probably crack the top five (behind Chemical Ali and Joan Rivers, but I can't think of anyone else offhand). With that said:

1) I don't believe that Vince McMahon withheld (or forced any employees/independent contractors to withhold) knowledge of Chris Benoit's death and/or the deaths of Benoit's family.

2) I don't believe that Vince McMahon suspected that Benoit had killed his family when the tribute show aired.

3) I don't think that Greenberg knew, or even suspected, that Benoit and his family were dead when he posted news of their deaths on Wikipedia. Many wrestling fans post stupid things about wrestlers on Wikipedia (Damien Demento and Mabel/Viscera/Big Daddy V have been declared dead by Wikipedia vandals lately, but I wouldn't expect the police to go check it out everytime someone posts something along those lines).

4) I don't think it's unusual that a person would edit two different wrestling-related Wikipedia articles.

5) I don't think that anyone who ends a column with the equivalent of "I'm in desparate need of anyone who can dig something up to help validate my fringe conspiracy theory -- please e-mail ASAP!" can be taken seriously.

However, I do believe that he makes one valid point -- if the "wellness program" is anything more than a bad joke, why had no action been taken in relation to Benoit's massive steroid intake?

[CrazySting]

Dec 2, 2008 19:01:36 GMT -5 Asics Johnson said:

Dec 2, 2008 18:44:30 GMT -5 CrazySting said:

Seriously?

Seriously... have you actually researched the Kennedy thing? It creeps me out, and I'm no conspiracy theorist.

However, if I was, I could certainly buy into the idea that Evad's evil brother is responsible for the Benoit homicides. You never know, right? With that being said, in reality, I think Muchnick is a crazy man. I mean, let it go already.

I'm agreeing...but has there really been that many Benoit conspiracies? Irv Muchnick is the only one that seems to take it seriously.

[CrazySting]

Dec 2, 2008 19:05:09 GMT -5 h said:

2) I don't believe that Vince McMahon suspected that Benoit had killed his family when the tribute show aired.

That one is still debatable. The higher up people in the company definetely knew something was up, and possibly that it was a murder/suicide. Although, its possible they just thought it couldn't be Benoit and it was Nancy.

I think they had their suspicions by the time the tribute show aired, but only had them confirmed as the show went on (you could really tell as the night went on, and as king got a hell of a lot more colder, that they were getting the info that he had done it).


I'm not saying they knew he had done it, but they probably suspected as soon as they went on the air. They probably shouldn't have risked it.

[bogart]

Dec 2, 2008 19:12:01 GMT -5 CrazySting said:

Dec 2, 2008 19:05:09 GMT -5 h said:

2) I don't believe that Vince McMahon suspected that Benoit had killed his family when the tribute show aired.

That one is still debatable. The higher up people in the company definetely knew something was up, and possibly that it was a murder/suicide. Although, its possible they just thought it couldn't be Benoit and it was Nancy.

I think they had their suspicions by the time the tribute show aired, but only had them confirmed as the show went on (you could really tell as the night went on, and as king got a hell of a lot more colder, that they were getting the info that he had done it).

to be fair when william regal spoke on that tribute show it seemed he knew something wasn't right

[azrael502]

The Guy Has Issues

[sloride]

Can anyone tell me why for the Benoit tribute show they had an empty arena? I wasn't watching RAW on a regular basis then and never understood why they had an empty arena when they didn't do that for Eddie?

[CrazySting]

Dec 2, 2008 19:13:45 GMT -5 bogart said:

Dec 2, 2008 19:12:01 GMT -5 CrazySting said:

That one is still debatable. The higher up people in the company definetely knew something was up, and possibly that it was a murder/suicide. Although, its possible they just thought it couldn't be Benoit and it was Nancy.

I think they had their suspicions by the time the tribute show aired, but only had them confirmed as the show went on (you could really tell as the night went on, and as king got a hell of a lot more colder, that they were getting the info that he had done it).

to be fair when william regal spoke on that tribute show it seemed he knew something wasn't right

Well, JBL had told him of his suspicions...

So, if the wrestlers were guessing that Benoit had done it BEFORE the show, management, who had way more information at that point, had to know-or at least suspect- what had happened.

[r.]

Dec 2, 2008 19:01:36 GMT -5 Asics Johnson said:

Dec 2, 2008 18:44:30 GMT -5 CrazySting said:

Seriously?

Seriously... have you actually researched the Kennedy thing? It creeps me out, and I'm no conspiracy theorist.

However, if I was, I could certainly buy into the idea that Evad's evil brother is responsible for the Benoit homicides. You never know, right? With that being said, in reality, I think Muchnick is a crazy man. I mean, let it go already.

i mearly ment how in depth ive seen people get with the number of killers being anywhere from 1-5.

[HMARK Center]

Dec 2, 2008 18:20:21 GMT -5 CrazySting said:

This guy is nuts. He still thinks there was some sort of conspiracy going on, and Vince was responsible for it all.

You do realize that, within the first few sentences of the article, he says "Benoit did it, not Vince, not Kevin Sullivan, not the one armed man from the Fugitive" or something to that effect?

Nobody thinks Vince did anything directly concerning the murders, but I still can't support the guy's product as long as his company's policies towards its workers is still stuck in the 19th century.

I think people have every right to not let this case go. It's a crucial moment in wrestling history, unfortunately, and yet so little has been done to change the business in it's wake.

[Sajoa Moe]

Dec 2, 2008 19:15:10 GMT -5 sloride said:

Can anyone tell me why for the Benoit tribute show they had an empty arena? I wasn't watching RAW on a regular basis then and never understood why they had an empty arena when they didn't do that for Eddie?

The news of Benoit's death had broken on Monday afternoon, mere hours before Raw went on the air. As a panic move, they cancelled Raw for the night to allow themselves to regroup.

As for Eddie, he died on a Thursday (if I remember correctly), so they had time to set up a tribute show for him the following week.

[h]

There have been some good replies to one of my points. In response, a couple of things come to mind:

1) I don't think anybody actually knew the full truth before the show began. I think it would have actually been riskier not to air a tribute show. What if it had turned out that the three of them were murdered? Can you imagine the outcry if Vince McMahon held tribute shows for Owen Hart and Eddie Guerrero, but when the whole family of one of his wrestlers was murdered, he pretended that nothing had happened? At least now he can claim ignorance. He wouldn't have had any defense for the criticism if he didn't do a tribute show and things had turned out differently.

2) I only watched the first three or four mintues of the tribute show, so I don't know how things went after that. Once the show started, though, I think they had to be committed to it. You can't stop a tribute show halfway through and say, "Well, actually, maybe he doesn't really derserve our respect and admiration...there's a chance he's actually a murderer, so we'll end the tributes right now." Again, the police hadn't proven anything. You can't declare someone guilty of murder on the air without being able to prove it. The only other possibilities that come to mind would be ending the show with no explanation or cutting the feed, both of which would have had a similar effect. People would have tuned in to see a tribute to a great wrestler, only to have it end mysteriously and leave their questions unanswered.

[CrazySting]

Dec 2, 2008 19:41:01 GMT -5 HMARK Center said:

Dec 2, 2008 18:20:21 GMT -5 CrazySting said:

This guy is nuts. He still thinks there was some sort of conspiracy going on, and Vince was responsible for it all.

You do realize that, within the first few sentences of the article, he says "Benoit did it, not Vince, not Kevin Sullivan, not the one armed man from the Fugitive" or something to that effect?

Nobody thinks Vince did anything directly concerning the murders, but I still can't support the guy's product as long as his company's policies towards its workers is still stuck in the 19th century.

I think people have every right to not let this case go. It's a crucial moment in wrestling history, unfortunately, and yet so little has been done to change the business in it's wake.

A few months back he was claiming Vince sent 'cleaners' to fix the crime scene after Benoit killed them.

So, no. He's never claimed Vince did it, just that Vince found out about the crime hours before the cops did and concocted some elaborate cover up, and this wiki hacker is somehow involved, and chavo and Malenko are lying, and the cops are covering it up, which is a pretty crazy theory in itself.

And he's been writing non stop about this for months. And months.

[Jtre]

Dec 2, 2008 19:05:09 GMT -5 h said:

If I were to make a list of the worst people in the world, Vince McMahon would probably crack the top five (behind Chemical Ali and Joan Rivers, but I can't think of anyone else offhand).

Are you being serious? This statement sounds so ridiculous, it almost has to be sarcastic.

All the court-proven and admitted murderers, rapists, pedophiles, slave-traders, child-pimps and other all-around worthless human beings from which to choose, yet Vince McMahon makes your top 5. Wow. As someone who spends money with Vince's company on a regualr basis, I feel somewhat offended that you would make a statement like that.

Moving on, I am surprised that some people (not the quoted poster) feel that Vince decided to run the tribute show even though he already knew, or had serious suspicions, that Benoit had murdered his wife and son.

For all the theories that get thrown around, there has yet to be one that has a plausible explanation as to why Vince would run the show if he had reason to believe Benoit killed Nancy and Daniel. Not only has Vince never done something to give people reason to believe he would do such a thing, it would have been very bad for business.