Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2008 17:26:25 GMT -5
You know, I'm not going to comment on the situation because it's been gone over again and again and again
Some of the comments however, legitimately amaze me
|
|
Lancers
El Dandy
Oh you
Posts: 7,951
|
Post by Lancers on Dec 3, 2008 18:28:12 GMT -5
Did I see Vince McMahon and Joan Rivers listed as 2 of the 5 worst people in the world? I'm no fan of either one of these two, but yeeeeeeesh.
|
|
Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,925
|
Post by Sephiroth on Dec 3, 2008 21:24:56 GMT -5
I suggest you guys read some books by John Douglas. In his experience as an FBI profiler, he repeatedly emphasizes how people react to such situations differently. Some of them broke down and cried. Some seemed cold and emotionless. Some just did not know how to react. That is very much what we saw in that tribute show. Chavo just shut down emotionall, Regal did not know how to react. For them, Benoit's death alone was a shocking and devastating revelation. He was their friend and companion, in many ways, their brother. I will not entirely defend the way WWE has simply erased the name Benoit from their history. But I am going to say that Vince McMahon's behavior was actually what I totally expected. Lest we forget, Vince is a self made billionaire, the owner of a huge company, the producer and director of a highly watched television product. When the truth about the situation became known, what did he do? He cast off personal feelings and took control. He immediately went into damage control for his company and his employees. He tried to ensure his survival through a dark and tragic time.
And on a not that I will probably get flamed for, I find it interesting how many are so outraged at the way that Vince and promoters of years gone by ignore the personal issues of their employees, or even try to cover them up. Yet a known wife beater named Steve Austin got cheered night after night. Mick Foley gets praised to this day for being thrown off a cage-how many pills do you suppose he took that night just to get to sleep? And WWE's "safe" style is constantly maligned for not allowing wrestler's to do ridiculously risky moves, despite how awesome they may have looked.
|
|
|
Post by wildojinx on Dec 3, 2008 23:38:17 GMT -5
Does anyone have a transcription of what chavo and regal said? I used to have the tribute show on tape but taped over it with RAW XV.
|
|
Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,078
|
Post by Mozenrath on Dec 3, 2008 23:49:19 GMT -5
This guy is nuts. He still thinks there was some sort of conspiracy going on, and Vince was responsible for it all. i get alot of flack for supporting the carrear of benoit but im under no allusions that ther was another killer, the level people go to explain the "benoit conspiracy" is kennedy-esq. ...KENNEDY-ESQ! I am a fan of his work, but yeah, I can understand WWE not aknowledging him. Does NFL like to bring up OJ Simpson? I rest my case.
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Dec 4, 2008 9:38:06 GMT -5
Are you being serious? This statement sounds so ridiculous, it almost has to be sarcastic. All the court-proven and admitted murderers, rapists, pedophiles, slave-traders, child-pimps and other all-around worthless human beings from which to choose, yet Vince McMahon makes your top 5. Wow. As someone who spends money with Vince's company on a regualr basis, I feel somewhat offended that you would make a statement like that. Yes, I feel that Vince McMahon has contributed more to the decline of North American society than anyone from your list. Of course, he's able to have a much wider influence due to the exposure of his product. And while I recognize that Vince McMahon cannot legally be termed a murderer, I feel that his lack of concern for the health of his employees (eg. fattening up Yokozuna to build up his character) has directly lead to quite a few deaths. Combine that with the negligence and blatant lies about a drug testing program that supposedly began in 1994, and you've got another several deaths that he contributed to simply because he didn't care about whether the wrestlers lived or died. It's not a commentary on people who watch his product; it's simply my feelings on the man at the top. More than anyone? I think Eric Bischoff did just as much. Take out the Yokozuna line and you can replace Vince's name with Eric's as Eric can be accused of doing everything Vince is accused of.
|
|
|
Post by Dr. Bunsen Honeydew on Dec 4, 2008 9:40:41 GMT -5
I suggest you guys read some books by John Douglas. In his experience as an FBI profiler, he repeatedly emphasizes how people react to such situations differently. Some of them broke down and cried. Some seemed cold and emotionless. Some just did not know how to react. That is very much what we saw in that tribute show. Chavo just shut down emotionall, Regal did not know how to react. For them, Benoit's death alone was a shocking and devastating revelation. He was their friend and companion, in many ways, their brother. I will not entirely defend the way WWE has simply erased the name Benoit from their history. But I am going to say that Vince McMahon's behavior was actually what I totally expected. Lest we forget, Vince is a self made billionaire, the owner of a huge company, the producer and director of a highly watched television product. When the truth about the situation became known, what did he do? He cast off personal feelings and took control. He immediately went into damage control for his company and his employees. He tried to ensure his survival through a dark and tragic time. And on a not that I will probably get flamed for, I find it interesting how many are so outraged at the way that Vince and promoters of years gone by ignore the personal issues of their employees, or even try to cover them up. Yet a known wife beater named Steve Austin got cheered night after night. Mick Foley gets praised to this day for being thrown off a cage-how many pills do you suppose he took that night just to get to sleep? And WWE's "safe" style is constantly maligned for not allowing wrestler's to do ridiculously risky moves, despite how awesome they may have looked. Umm, Mick Foley, by his own admission, didn't take any pain medication after that cage fall.
|
|
|
Post by "Handsome" Whitey Fats on Dec 4, 2008 9:55:51 GMT -5
I suggest you guys read some books by John Douglas. In his experience as an FBI profiler, he repeatedly emphasizes how people react to such situations differently. Some of them broke down and cried. Some seemed cold and emotionless. Some just did not know how to react. That is very much what we saw in that tribute show. Chavo just shut down emotionall, Regal did not know how to react. For them, Benoit's death alone was a shocking and devastating revelation. He was their friend and companion, in many ways, their brother. I will not entirely defend the way WWE has simply erased the name Benoit from their history. But I am going to say that Vince McMahon's behavior was actually what I totally expected. Lest we forget, Vince is a self made billionaire, the owner of a huge company, the producer and director of a highly watched television product. When the truth about the situation became known, what did he do? He cast off personal feelings and took control. He immediately went into damage control for his company and his employees. He tried to ensure his survival through a dark and tragic time. And on a not that I will probably get flamed for, I find it interesting how many are so outraged at the way that Vince and promoters of years gone by ignore the personal issues of their employees, or even try to cover them up. Yet a known wife beater named Steve Austin got cheered night after night. Mick Foley gets praised to this day for being thrown off a cage-how many pills do you suppose he took that night just to get to sleep? And WWE's "safe" style is constantly maligned for not allowing wrestler's to do ridiculously risky moves, despite how awesome they may have looked. Umm, Mick Foley, by his own admission, didn't take any pain medication after that cage fall. So he says... I took with that with a grain of salt, like most of what he said in his books.
|
|
sloride
Unicron
Doesn't Suck Up. Or Does She?
The Greatest Entertainer to have ever Lived
Posts: 3,196
|
Post by sloride on Dec 4, 2008 10:52:44 GMT -5
HHH, like Foley, also claims he doesn't take painkillers. Which is kinda hard to believe in their line of work.
|
|
|
Post by D-Lo's #1 Fan on Dec 4, 2008 11:30:28 GMT -5
Umm, Mick Foley, by his own admission, didn't take any pain medication after that cage fall. So he says... I took with that with a grain of salt, like most of what he said in his books. Why would he lie about something like that? Seriously he stands to gain nothing from it. I think you didn't read his book to be honest and change certain "facts" to fit your warped opinion.
|
|
|
Post by CrazySting on Dec 4, 2008 16:17:27 GMT -5
Foley admitted in his second book he does take painkillers (from time to time). But if he says he didn't take any after hell in a cell there's no reason not to believe him (although he was so messed up in the days after that he might not know.)
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Dec 4, 2008 17:19:10 GMT -5
I take a slight bit of exception to the last part.
The style a wrestler performs with, most of the time, doesn't have nearly as much impact on their overall health as much as their workload/schedule, except in extreme cases of guys who go absolutely insane with what they do (i.e. Mark Briscoe in ROH, who apparently has no regard for his well being, although he's basically said before he plans to retire by the time he's 30).
Most wrestling moves, even the sickest, stiffest looking ones, are pretty safe to perform, if you're a professional. There's pain: even simple body slams hurt, considering that rings don't have that much padding. But even a Half-Nelson Suplex, where it appears that a guys' getting dumped directly on top of his head, can be performed safely and professionally.
However, schedules are the biggest issue for a wrestlers' health. If a guy works 300 dates a year, AND travels internationally while doing so, his body is going to have an incredibly minimal amount of time to heal, and his injuries are going to compound.
Also take note that very often, when wrestlers have severe injuries occur during a match, it seems to most often occur during the performing of what should be "simple" moves. I can still remember Buff Bagwell almost having his spine broken because he took a top rope bulldog from Rick Steiner, a move Rick's done thousands of times.
|
|
|
Post by cuneo77 on Dec 4, 2008 17:52:49 GMT -5
i always thought some of the guys didnt show emotion, dean in particlar giving himself props for teaching him a move. but guys were crushed during eddie and owen.. the chris show had a different feel
|
|
Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,925
|
Post by Sephiroth on Dec 4, 2008 19:29:40 GMT -5
Well, I apologize to any my comments may offend. I freely admit, I never read Foley's books. But I do stick by my point-some of the same fans who bark the most about "safer" conditions and condemn promoters like Vince are the same ones who also mark the most of things like flaming tables and bumps off the top of a cage. Granted, such stunts do hold a degree of safety if done by a professional and prepared for thoroughly. But if Owen Hart taught us anything, it is that even the best laid plans can go awry.
I guess my point is that I actually think Vince shoulders a lot of blame for the whole tragedy of the Benoit family-but he did not really kill anyone. Did his work policies perhaps encourage the problems that built over the course of many years? Quite likely. But Vince put his hands around no one's throat. And I dare argue that he responded to the whole situation in the best way possible. It may have been cold, but it did allow himself and others to recover and move on.
|
|
|
Post by "Handsome" Whitey Fats on Dec 4, 2008 19:31:19 GMT -5
So he says... I took with that with a grain of salt, like most of what he said in his books. Why would he lie about something like that? Seriously he stands to gain nothing from it. I think you didn't read his book to be honest and change certain "facts" to fit your warped opinion. I've read all three of his books, son, multiple time even. Foley, imo, and this has been noted by several other wrestlers, is a mark for himself, so, once again imo, Foley may have changed things to make himself look better.
|
|
|
Post by Loki on Dec 4, 2008 20:27:10 GMT -5
A couple of things:
To the guy who feels McMahon is one of the persons responsible for American society's decadence, well... You're either overrating WWE's impact on society beyond any reasonable limit, or you're, how to put it... an idiot [it's flaming, I know, and I'll gladly accept the warning. That's bull0987654321... Vince worse than serial-killers, rapists, and politicians/bankers! Gimme a f'n break!] Dude, GET REAL... McMahon is no worse than the guy at the helm of the NHL... and with a more fickle fanbase and with less mainstream coverage/appeal.
Then, about Chavo being cold and emotionless... I don't get that vibe. And anyway, he had lost his uncle in a similarly tragic way before, so I wouldn't compare the two ways of mourning.
I can see some of the Superstars had some doubts, and were suspecting there was something wrong. Ditto WWE office, but without the total certainty of that being a murder/suicide, they "took the chance" of airing a tribute show, while waiting for the horrific truth to surface.
The Wiki guy... well, there are a lot of people who love to fiddle around with Wikipedia, and the wildest rumours were indeed around the net before it was clear what had happened.
So is it SO hard to believe a wrestling nerd decided to edit Benoit's page with an outrageous rumour that ended up being true?
I can almost bet he thought to himself "man, if that's true I'm gonna be a star" or something equally stupid. He was right, but it was just because, for a change, internet rumours became true for a terrible coincidence, when Benoit decided to do the unthinkable.
|
|
|
Post by lildude8218 on Dec 5, 2008 15:06:51 GMT -5
To the guy who feels McMahon is one of the persons responsible for American society's decadence, well... You're either overrating WWE's impact on society beyond any reasonable limit, or you're, how to put it... an idiot [it's flaming, I know, and I'll gladly accept the warning. That's bull0987654321... Vince worse than serial-killers, rapists, and politicians/bankers! Gimme a f'n break!] Dude, GET REAL... McMahon is no worse than the guy at the helm of the NHL... and with a more fickle fanbase and with less mainstream coverage/appeal. Enjoy the warning....I guess
|
|