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Post by Asics Johnson on Dec 2, 2008 20:13:57 GMT -5
Seriously... have you actually researched the Kennedy thing? It creeps me out, and I'm no conspiracy theorist. However, if I was, I could certainly buy into the idea that Evad's evil brother is responsible for the Benoit homicides. You never know, right? With that being said, in reality, I think Muchnick is a crazy man. I mean, let it go already. I'm agreeing...but has there really been that many Benoit conspiracies? Irv Muchnick is the only one that seems to take it seriously. Nah, just the one about Kevin Sullivan doing it. There are a few videos about it on youtube, but it's all a bunch of crap. I mean, Kevin Sullivan might have killed the Benoit family eventually, but it must've been fairly obvious to the Gwinnett County P.D. that Chris did it himself... otherwise, they probably would've looked into the possibility. And for the record, in my original post, I was just flabbergasted that the other guy (not you, cenamark) was so quick to dismiss the JFK conspiracy. The evidence supporting that theory is more than just a little unnerving, but I guess that's another thread for another board.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Dec 2, 2008 20:14:03 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me why for the Benoit tribute show they had an empty arena? I wasn't watching RAW on a regular basis then and never understood why they had an empty arena when they didn't do that for Eddie? The news of Benoit's death had broken on Monday afternoon, mere hours before Raw went on the air. As a panic move, they cancelled Raw for the night to allow themselves to regroup. As for Eddie, he died on a Thursday (if I remember correctly), so they had time to set up a tribute show for him the following week. Actually with Eddie, they had less time to prepare as he died on a Sunday morning, hours before they were set to do a Raw/Smackdown Supershow taping from Minneapolis,MN.
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Post by CrazySting on Dec 2, 2008 20:19:33 GMT -5
If I were to make a list of the worst people in the world, Vince McMahon would probably crack the top five (behind Chemical Ali and Joan Rivers, but I can't think of anyone else offhand). Are you being serious? This statement sounds so ridiculous, it almost has to be sarcastic. Moving on, I am surprised that some people (not the quoted poster) feel that Vince decided to run the tribute show even though he already knew, or had serious suspicions, that Benoit had murdered his wife and son. For all the theories that get thrown around, there has yet to be one that has a plausible explanation as to why Vince would run the show if he had reason to believe Benoit killed Nancy and Daniel. Not only has Vince never done something to give people reason to believe he would do such a thing, it would have been very bad for business. Its almost certain they had suspicions .A lot of the wrestlers had guessed, or at least knew something was up: look at what Regal had to say. Masters backed this up in an interview, when he said everyone had a bad feeling about it. So, if the wrestlers thought it was Benoit, Vince must have thought it at well. Not that they were certain, but it must have occurred to them. If I can remember correctly even some people on here before the story came out had speculated on a murder/suicide. So, hell, if people on a message board thought it, the WWE- who had known something was up with Benoit for at least a couple of days- must have guessed. I'm not saying it was done for ratings. They probably wanted to do something for Chris, and decided to run the show because they didn't have the full story anyway and it might have turned out to be something else. It was stupid, more than anything else.
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crash1984
Unicron
Scavenger Hunt All-Star
You don't need pants for the victory dance
Posts: 3,039
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Post by crash1984 on Dec 2, 2008 20:19:49 GMT -5
I have said it before and will say it again. We never will know all the details on the Benoit situation.
I look at the tribute show like Over the Edge 1999 continuing. You do it and hope its right at the time. If you don't do a tribute show and then it turns out that Nancy was the murderer or worse yet it is something like a gas leak then the backlash against the WWE would be huge. However you do the tribute show and it turns out Benoit was the killer then again you have a huge backlash. WWE probably considered that if Benoit done it they could apologize and say that they did not have all the details at the time especially since Raw was going to be 3 hours that night.
One thing I do not understand is why didn't the WWE have police do a welfare check sooner? With Regal and Chavo receiving those texts plus no one being able to get in touch with Benoit on Sunday they should have requested some type of welfare check on Sunday.
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icansleep
Don Corleone
Wasn't Hornswoggled
Posts: 1,828
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Post by icansleep on Dec 2, 2008 22:09:09 GMT -5
One thing I do not understand is why didn't the WWE have police do a welfare check sooner? With Regal and Chavo receiving those texts plus no one being able to get in touch with Benoit on Sunday they should have requested some type of welfare check on Sunday. I believe that's what Muchnick is trying to decipher with this article and with the work on his personal blog. Like I stated earlier, it's plausible that sometime that weekend, a WWE employee with some knowledge of the situation, got on a forum and offered up their reasoning as to why Benoit missed the Saturday night house show and later the Night Of Champions PPV. Maybe Greenberg reads that and does his damage on Wikipedia? Far fetched or not, Greenberg convienently forgetting what site(s) he was on that day leaves that realm of possibility. The timeline of this whole incident is still the biggest mystery regarding the death of the Benoit's. Who knows if we'll ever fill in the gaps between early Sunday morning and Monday afternoon.
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h
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 5,734
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Post by h on Dec 2, 2008 22:58:57 GMT -5
If I were to make a list of the worst people in the world, Vince McMahon would probably crack the top five (behind Chemical Ali and Joan Rivers, but I can't think of anyone else offhand). Are you being serious? This statement sounds so ridiculous, it almost has to be sarcastic. All the court-proven and admitted murderers, rapists, pedophiles, slave-traders, child-pimps and other all-around worthless human beings from which to choose, yet Vince McMahon makes your top 5. Wow. As someone who spends money with Vince's company on a regualr basis, I feel somewhat offended that you would make a statement like that. Yes, I feel that Vince McMahon has contributed more to the decline of North American society than anyone from your list. Of course, he's able to have a much wider influence due to the exposure of his product. And while I recognize that Vince McMahon cannot legally be termed a murderer, I feel that his lack of concern for the health of his employees (eg. fattening up Yokozuna to build up his character) has directly lead to quite a few deaths. Combine that with the negligence and blatant lies about a drug testing program that supposedly began in 1994, and you've got another several deaths that he contributed to simply because he didn't care about whether the wrestlers lived or died. It's not a commentary on people who watch his product; it's simply my feelings on the man at the top.
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Post by derrtaysouth95 on Dec 2, 2008 23:39:29 GMT -5
can someone direct me to where I can rewatch the Tribute Show?
I watched it when it aired originally, but thats obviously been a while.
I want to see if I think the tone changes and how suspect Regal & JBL sounds.
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Post by The Harbinger of Tragedy on Dec 3, 2008 0:01:19 GMT -5
Many wrestling fans post stupid things about wrestlers I have long sinced believed this since I came across a website attempting to claim intellectual property over speculation that the New Age Outlaws were joining the Corporation.
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Sephiroth
Wade Wilson
Surviving
Posts: 28,925
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Post by Sephiroth on Dec 3, 2008 0:18:16 GMT -5
Just going to voice my two cents here. I can buy that there may have been some conspiracy elements to the whole situation. Most notably, I find it hard to believe that WWE management knew nothing of Benoit's problems with medication drugs and steroids. And I can believe that, in their scramble for damage control, that WWE withheld some of their knowledge of it. But that is the extent of any "conspiracy" ideas I have.
I do not believe there was any conspiracy about the whole tribute show. As I seem to recall, it was only starting to be reported on some sites that the situation was in fact a suicide/murder. I remember reading this sad fact while the show was going on. The show was probably put into motion the instant that WWE learned one of their most beloved performers was dead. What they knew was sketchy-a series of jumbled events that had not yet been put into any kind of order that made sense. And if we review some of those facts, of course the other wrestlers must have realized something strange was going on. Benoit-who was a notoriously dedicated worker-had called out at the very last minute. That kind of behavior would definitely be considered strange for someone with his work habits. And when you combine that with his text messages sent to Guerrero and others, it makes for a very unusual picture. I am sure that throughout that whole day the tribute show aired the other wrestlers were struggling to come to grips with the loss of their friend, as well as piece together what knowledge they had to try to get an idea of what had happened. And honestly, I tend to doubt the police immediately dubbed the scene a murder/suicide. It no doubt was surreal and disturbing. But they doubtless inspected the scene and the evidence carefully before coming to that conclusion. Therefore, all the facts had to be in first. Nuff said.
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Post by desmondlocke on Dec 3, 2008 0:47:03 GMT -5
Sorry dude, but I'd much rather know what the snork happened between Friday and Sunday morning than anything else.
For those who really think WWE didn't know it could easily be murder/suicide before the Tribute stated, you guys are seriously naive beyond belief. There is no doubt in my mind that they knew when the show began to air that there was a good chance that was the case.
Have you not listened to Regal and especially Chavo's tributes? "What great heart you had...have..." Who the hell starts off a testmonial about someone who just DIED by saying "He wasn't my best friend..." Chavo snorking knew. He was there a week before (you don't think that he told that story because maybe he felt GUILTY that he knew 0987654321 was going on in the marriage?). And if he really did get the text message and go back to sleep like he said, I'm not saying Benoit would still be alive (and would it of mattered cause Nancy and Daniel were long gone by then)...I dunno.
I know Chris Benoit "did it" but I've still had a hard time coming to grips and trying to imagine him in my head him strangling his wife to death and then smothering his son. I know I didn't know the guy, but I knew so much about him and listened to him in interviews and listened to so many things people talked about and followed his career. It just doesn't add up. He must have gone beyond the words of insanity.
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Jtre
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 561
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Post by Jtre on Dec 3, 2008 0:51:13 GMT -5
Are you being serious? This statement sounds so ridiculous, it almost has to be sarcastic. All the court-proven and admitted murderers, rapists, pedophiles, slave-traders, child-pimps and other all-around worthless human beings from which to choose, yet Vince McMahon makes your top 5. Wow. As someone who spends money with Vince's company on a regualr basis, I feel somewhat offended that you would make a statement like that. Yes, I feel that Vince McMahon has contributed more to the decline of North American society than anyone from your list. Of course, he's able to have a much wider influence due to the exposure of his product. And while I recognize that Vince McMahon cannot legally be termed a murderer, I feel that his lack of concern for the health of his employees (eg. fattening up Yokozuna to build up his character) has directly lead to quite a few deaths. Combine that with the negligence and blatant lies about a drug testing program that supposedly began in 1994, and you've got another several deaths that he contributed to simply because he didn't care about whether the wrestlers lived or died. It's not a commentary on people who watch his product; it's simply my feelings on the man at the top. Three things: 1) In your initial post, you did not say "contributing to the decline of North American society; you said "worst human being." With that, I ask you, do you really believe a glorified carney has enough power and influence to "contribute to the decline of North American society" more than congressmen, presidents and lawmakers? 2) To continue with your theme about the decline of North American society, do you view yourself as a dreg of that society? I know you said your statements are not a direct indictment of the people who enjoy Vince's product, but surely you would agree that those people, in your scenario, are the true victims of such a decline. Since you enjoy his product, or at least have at some point, you must feel that you are a rung or two beneath those who have not had the misfortune of being misguided by Vince's evil product. 3) Do you have any proof that Vince "fattened up" Yokozuna? How exactly did he "fatten" Yoko up, anyway? Since Yokozuna obviously had some say in the matter, especially at a time when there were multiple promotions for which he could have worked, I would suggest he chose to "fatten" himself up. I will continue to think that unless, of course, you produce something along the lines of a photo of Vince holding Yoko at gunpoint while Patterson and Brisco shovel Big Macs and Whoppers into the big man's mouth.
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ilggant
Unicron
Run...
Posts: 2,666
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Post by ilggant on Dec 3, 2008 4:40:23 GMT -5
Yes, I feel that Vince McMahon has contributed more to the decline of North American society than anyone from your list. Of course, he's able to have a much wider influence due to the exposure of his product. And while I recognize that Vince McMahon cannot legally be termed a murderer, I feel that his lack of concern for the health of his employees (eg. fattening up Yokozuna to build up his character) has directly lead to quite a few deaths. Combine that with the negligence and blatant lies about a drug testing program that supposedly began in 1994, and you've got another several deaths that he contributed to simply because he didn't care about whether the wrestlers lived or died. It's not a commentary on people who watch his product; it's simply my feelings on the man at the top. Three things: 1) In your initial post, you did not say "contributing to the decline of North American society; you said "worst human being." With that, I ask you, do you really believe a glorified carney has enough power and influence to "contribute to the decline of North American society" more than congressmen, presidents and lawmakers? 2) To continue with your theme about the decline of North American society, do you view yourself as a dreg of that society? I know you said your statements are not a direct indictment of the people who enjoy Vince's product, but surely you would agree that those people, in your scenario, are the true victims of such a decline. Since you enjoy his product, or at least have at some point, you must feel that you are a rung or two beneath those who have not had the misfortune of being misguided by Vince's evil product. 3) Do you have any proof that Vince "fattened up" Yokozuna? How exactly did he "fatten" Yoko up, anyway? Since Yokozuna obviously had some say in the matter, especially at a time when there were multiple promotions for which he could have worked, I would suggest he chose to "fatten" himself up. I will continue to think that unless, of course, you produce something along the lines of a photo of Vince holding Yoko at gunpoint while Patterson and Brisco shovel Big Macs and Whoppers into the big man's mouth. Photoshop, anyone?
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sloride
Unicron
Doesn't Suck Up. Or Does She?
The Greatest Entertainer to have ever Lived
Posts: 3,196
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Post by sloride on Dec 3, 2008 5:48:25 GMT -5
I watched the tribute show on the net the day after and yes, I am positive that some of them knew like Regal and Chavo. Their tributes were quite distant and their phrasing was very strange. But I am also positive that some of the wrestlers did not know what had happened when they made their tributes. Look at HHH's, Steph's, and CM Punk's for example. All three were very emotional and were talking about Chris as a 'friend'-there was no way that they knew.
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Post by Red Impact on Dec 3, 2008 8:29:23 GMT -5
I watched the tribute show on the net the day after and yes, I am positive that some of them knew like Regal and Chavo. Their tributes were quite distant and their phrasing was very strange. But I am also positive that some of the wrestlers did not know what had happened when they made their tributes. Look at HHH's, Steph's, and CM Punk's for example. All three were very emotional and were talking about Chris as a 'friend'-there was no way that they knew. I got the same feeling, like there was a point partway through when they all found out/it was confirmed and such, or that only some of the people thought of it.
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Post by blef on Dec 3, 2008 10:26:23 GMT -5
That one is still debatable. The higher up people in the company definetely knew something was up, and possibly that it was a murder/suicide. Although, its possible they just thought it couldn't be Benoit and it was Nancy. I think they had their suspicions by the time the tribute show aired, but only had them confirmed as the show went on (you could really tell as the night went on, and as king got a hell of a lot more colder, that they were getting the info that he had done it). to be fair when william regal spoke on that tribute show it seemed he knew something wasn't right Yeah. It was with those tributes that you could tell something was up; those earlier in the show were very emotional and sincere, but the later ones were colder and seemed to focus more on his in-ring talents rather than his personal side... 3) Do you have any proof that Vince "fattened up" Yokozuna? How exactly did he "fatten" Yoko up, anyway? Since Yokozuna obviously had some say in the matter, especially at a time when there were multiple promotions for which he could have worked, I would suggest he chose to "fatten" himself up. I will continue to think that unless, of course, you produce something along the lines of a photo of Vince holding Yoko at gunpoint while Patterson and Brisco shovel Big Macs and Whoppers into the big man's mouth. His weight gain was the fault of how he handled the "way of life." I wouldn't say it was his fault per say, nor is it really Vince's, but he obviously had a way of dealing with the pressure of WWF wrestling life - especially when he was champ and more was expected of him - that was not good for him. At least, though, it wasn't drugs - it was eating.
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Post by derrtaysouth95 on Dec 3, 2008 16:44:15 GMT -5
For those wanting to see it, the following is William Regal's bit:
and Chavo Guerrero's bit:
You can tell Regal seems suspect. Chavo seems emotionless and cold......also trying to remove himself from blame somewhat.
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Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Dec 3, 2008 16:51:22 GMT -5
For those wanting to see it, the following is William Regal's bit: and Chavo Guerrero's bit: You can tell Regal seems suspect. Chavo seems emotionless and cold......also trying to remove himself from blame somewhat. How is Chavo trying to remove himself from blame?
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 3, 2008 16:56:21 GMT -5
For those wanting to see it, the following is William Regal's bit: and Chavo Guerrero's bit: You can tell Regal seems suspect. Chavo seems emotionless and cold......also trying to remove himself from blame somewhat. I generally avoid these discussions, and videos, but I just watched them for the first time since the live airing, and that comment that Chavo makes about trusting Benoit with his kids tells me that Chavo knew what had happened.
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Post by BlackJackRobby on Dec 3, 2008 17:09:14 GMT -5
I personally think the WWE or the wrestlers themselves withhold some info about the days weeks previous.
I don't think anyone knew about this coming however.
No one had any clue that he was about to do what he did.
I personally believe the story that he was cheating with a diva and once wife found out she was going to leave.
I also believe that everyone except say Chavo thought he was going home due to an emergency.
Chavo probably knew what was up, but thought he was just going to talk her through it.
Vince is an evil dude, some of the things he did in the 80's and continued to the 90's will haunt him, he had nothing to do with this however, and the tribute show proves that he was one of the last people to know the gory details.
Beniot is and was one of my hero's he also proves that theory that you cannot have a human with all the faults of a human be your hero.
I take everything he gave and thank him for it, and am still shocked confused and angry at what he did.
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Post by i.Sarita.com on Dec 3, 2008 17:15:05 GMT -5
For those wanting to see it, the following is William Regal's bit: and Chavo Guerrero's bit: You can tell Regal seems suspect. Chavo seems emotionless and cold......also trying to remove himself from blame somewhat. I generally avoid these discussions, and videos, but I just watched them for the first time since the live airing, and that comment that Chavo makes about trusting Benoit with his kids tells me that Chavo knew what had happened. It's the first time I've seen those myself, and I agree. He does seem like he's more angered about it, than sad. It's weird.
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