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Post by Robbymac on Dec 15, 2008 17:09:44 GMT -5
Actually ECW's title did have recognition when ECW was an independent promotion with its own national television program and ran pay per views from 99-01 TNA gets it because they have a 2 hour national program every week, runs monthly pay per views, and defends it title world wide. It was similar to WCW being granted World Title recogntion immediately after breaking off from the NWA. Basically PWI granted TNA the right several years ago World Title status to whatever belt they promote as their top title. Outside of the two hour show part, the same could be said for the ECW belt of now though. It's all a load to stay in a promotions good graces and have access to them though. I could agree with that except for that the fact that the ECW Title NEVER main events a WWE show. EVER. To me I think ROH has a better claim to World Title status than ECW, and I'm firmly in the ROH is NOT a World Title camp.
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Post by Bubble Lead on Dec 15, 2008 17:15:26 GMT -5
Well according to WWE it is, but obviously it is on a lower level than the other two, no matter what they say.
I would consider it a World Title simply based on the fact that probably ninety percent of American wrestlers would like to be in the spot of ECW Champion.
However all of those wrestlers would rather be WWE Champion or WHC if they had a choice.
The ECW Title is basically where the IC Belt was in the 80s and early 90s in terms of importance within the current day WWE. There are only three titles which really mean anything, the three brand belts.
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Garee
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Post by Garee on Dec 15, 2008 17:25:47 GMT -5
I think as far as the WWE goes it is a world title, but really doesn't mean so much
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randomranter
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Post by randomranter on Dec 15, 2008 17:26:00 GMT -5
First, I do not personally consider the WWECW title and the original ECW title the same belt.
Second, the WWE considers the WWECW title a "world title" (a) in name only, and (b) even then, only when it suits them.
In practice, the WWE doesn't even consider the WWECW title on par with the IC or US belts, and not even in the same ballpark as the two big straps.
1) If there's even an ECW title on the card, it's often the curtain jerker of the evening. World championship bouts most often are main event or share co-main-event status.
2) Watch the pre-show of any PPV. The lion's share of the time is dedicated to the World Title matches and any other high-profile matches on the show. If there's an ECW title match on the card, it gets the same time alloted to it as any of the other filler matches.
3) They just had their ECW champion job cleanly in the curtain jerker match of a throwaway PPV. The only other time a "champion" was booked like that was Rey Mysterio, and it's almost universally agreed that that was the worst booked reign in WWE history.
4) When was the last time that any "world champion" was on the losing end of a squash match at Wrestlemania?
5) The ECW roster consists of barely more than 10 people. And more often than not, a lot of those people end up competing for belts on the other two shows. But you don't see any of the championship contenders from Raw of Smackdown heading to ECW to challenge for that belt.
6) Similarly, the chances of the Royal Rumble winner challenging for the ECW belt is exactly 0%. The only time this was even teased was two years ago when Undertaker popped into the Raw, Smackdown, and ECW rings. This was the only time it was even teased. The ECW belt will never headline Wrestlemania, nor will it even share co-main-event status with the other two title matches.
So while some (including the WWE, when it suits them) may say that the ECW belt is a world title, in practice, it really is not even on par with the IC and US titles.
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The Line
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Post by The Line on Dec 15, 2008 17:31:24 GMT -5
cool. we made it about 4 months before we got into this debate again. I think its a record.
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randomranter
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Post by randomranter on Dec 15, 2008 17:33:52 GMT -5
cool. we made it about 4 months before we got into this debate again. I think its a record. I think it was sparked by the fact that the ECW champion was (a) in the curtain jerker, (b)in a non title match, and (c) doing the job. It's kinda hard to take a championship seriously when the champ is jobbing during the curtain jerker match.
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Post by Bobby Womack on Dec 15, 2008 18:00:08 GMT -5
I'm going off wikipedia which may or may not be accurate. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pro_Wrestling_Illustrated#World_Heavyweight_titlesIMO I don't feel that ROH has near the prestige, notierity, or exposure to justify putting their belt on the same level as the two top belts in WWE or TNA's top belt. I've had this argument before and don't really feel like rehashing it, but I don't think simply defending your title overseas grants you "World Title" recognition. How does TNA and their title's one year of existence get WT status over the ROH and ECW titles? i think its because the tna title has the tv time and its their top belt in the company, ecw title fills every criteria for 'world title status' and it gets snubbed by pwi, most likely because its hard to consider something a world title when it ranges from 3rd to 5th most important title in its company
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Above Average
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Post by Above Average on Dec 15, 2008 18:27:00 GMT -5
Yes, it is.
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azz0r
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Post by azz0r on Dec 15, 2008 18:30:36 GMT -5
Have you ever seen a World Champion wrestle in a non-title match in the opening match of a Pay Per View? And job? Ding ding ding. Matt didn't really job, just lost, but you wouldn't see HHH/Edge/Cena or even Jeff doing that.
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Post by lockedontarget on Dec 15, 2008 20:27:25 GMT -5
The only three officially recognised world championships in the US are the WWE, WHC and TNA WHC. So as much as I'd like to say Matt got to a world title before Jeff, it's not a "real" one. The ROH title is commonly considered a World title as well, because it has been defended in several different countries. That's generally how something earns World Title status. If it's defended in multiple countries outside of it's home one. I don't give a smurf what some magazine says, a title is a world title if it's the top title in it's respective company or brand, and it's defended across the globe. The ECW and ROH championships are both world titles. That doesn't mean they are as "big" as the two WWE World titles, but they're still World titles. What people who reject this don't seem to understand is that all "World" championships don't have to be considered equal. Just because something is a World championship doesn't mean it is on the same level as another World championship. It's simply a classification of importance and prestige relevant to the company or brand it is part of.
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The F'N Captain
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Post by The F'N Captain on Dec 15, 2008 20:38:50 GMT -5
Whatever descriptions it has, the ECW belt to me is not on ther same level as the WHC and WWE World belt, and for one simple reason, the WWE itself doesn't TREAT the ECW belt like it's as important. It's like a tad above the U.S. and I.C. titles.
Remember the Tv and Us titles in WCW? The ECW is where the US title was and the IC and US titles are where the TV title was.
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Post by Joekishi on Dec 15, 2008 20:47:06 GMT -5
Yes it is.
The way it was booked after Nitro/Punk/Chavo. The way Kane and Henry treated the belt like a lifelong goal.
Hell Mark Henry and Matt Hardy's tearful promos after winning the belt alone make me appreciate it as a "World Title"
In no way is the ECW on the same level as the IC/US titles.
IT is a rung above, while the WWE and WHC are both the top belts, ECW is the "proving ground" belt, while the IC/US titles are place holders
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Post by biggdeez40 on Dec 15, 2008 23:09:09 GMT -5
I'd say its on par with the AWA title of the mid to late 80's. Not as valuable as the WWF or NWA titles, but a world championship nonetheless.
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Post by tombstoned on Dec 15, 2008 23:20:59 GMT -5
If the WWE Title can be considered a World Title even though it doesn't have "World Heavyweight" in it, then so can the ECW Title. I believe the logic behind the WWE Title and World Title being equal is WWE knows that there are many people who would not be able to distinguish between the two if they were both called the WWE World Heavyweight Championship. So they split that up and we have the WWE Heavyweight Championship and the World Heavyweight Championship.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Dec 16, 2008 0:04:45 GMT -5
In the WWE Power 25 listings, not only has Matt been ranked #1 a few times by the WWE, but they have actually referred to him as a World Champion on the website a few times recently.
Granted, it does not help to have him job in the opening match of a PPV, but whatever.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 16, 2008 6:33:47 GMT -5
I think it is less valuable than the WWE Championship and the World Heavyweight Championship, but it is more valuable than the Intercontinental and United States Championships.
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Post by Loki on Dec 16, 2008 7:16:45 GMT -5
But...
I could start my own wrestling company tomorrow, create a World Heavyweight Title, but that wouldn't mean "my" Championship belt means something.
What I don't get it: we complain about WWE having two major titles and about how much that devalued the idea of being World Heavyweight Champion [as opposed to the days of One Belt, One Champion], yet we campaign for ECW title getting some more recognition/prestige...
A hierarchy is necessary, so the ECW title has to take a backseat to WWE and WHC titles. And considering ECW is more or less a glorified developemental show, I don't see why the brand title shoud mean more than a midcard title on the A-show
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Post by Mozenrath on Dec 16, 2008 7:21:24 GMT -5
But... I could start my own wrestling company tomorrow, create a World Heavyweight Title, but that wouldn't mean "my" Championship belt means something. What I don't get it: we complain about WWE having two major titles and about how much that devalued the idea of being World Heavyweight Champion [as opposed to the days of One Belt, One Champion], yet we campaign for ECW title getting some more recognition/prestige... A hierarchy is necessary, so the ECW title has to take a backseat to WWE and WHC titles. And considering ECW is more or less a glorified developemental show, I don't see why the brand title shoud mean more than a midcard title on the A-show Point taken, but it DOES mean more than the US Title, and a little more arguably the IC title. It's developmental, yeah, but the caliber of champions has been higher than the US or IC titles. Big Show, RVD, Kane, these guys are beyond the IC scene.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 16, 2008 7:27:12 GMT -5
Off topic, but what the hell is an Intercontinental Title supposed to be? Intercontinental means that it would be defended on several continents but World means, what that, it's like the best on those continents or something? Is the Intercontinental Title like "The World Championship Light"? Suckas got to know.
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Post by Robbymac on Dec 16, 2008 9:23:28 GMT -5
Off topic, but what the hell is an Intercontinental Title supposed to be? Intercontinental means that it would be defended on several continents but World means, what that, it's like the best on those continents or something? Is the Intercontinental Title like "The World Championship Light"? Suckas got to know. It got its name (in kayfabe) when the WWWF North American Championship (a real title) was unified with the WWWF South American Championship (a fictional title) thus becoming the title of both continents...the "Intercontinental" Title. Not sure if that answers your question, but thats always the way I have understood it.
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