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Post by thwak is T.hawk on May 23, 2009 14:16:40 GMT -5
since I don't believe we have one, and everyonce in a while we do have a nice little talk about table top RPG's, I thought why not.
So come one come all as we discuss whether or not D&D 4th edition is good or if it's a sell out in order to get MMORPG fans into traditional role playing games!
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,366
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 23, 2009 15:36:29 GMT -5
The release of 4th ed. means that I have stopped playing D&D again. I have no idea if it is good or not (I've heard both good and bad, though mostly good however), but I am not spending another several hundred dollars to get a new library of material. I have done that three times now (from AD&D 2nd ed. through 3.5, as well as other games). I'm done with that. To be honest, I am now in the process of amalgamating the rules of some of my favorite games for a set of house rules that I will use whenever I get back to DMing.
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Post by Gopher Mod on May 23, 2009 16:05:01 GMT -5
I currently play in a 3.5ed Oriental Adventures campaign. The whole honor mechanic is kind of odd, but the game itself is pretty good.
As for 4th ed: I've had a look at it, and it's almost day and night compared to 3.5. I'd like to play it, but I don't know anyone in my college who is (mainly because they are playing with 3.5 still).
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Post by thwak is T.hawk on May 24, 2009 6:41:32 GMT -5
The release of 4th ed. means that I have stopped playing D&D again. I have no idea if it is good or not (I've heard both good and bad, though mostly good however), but I am not spending another several hundred dollars to get a new library of material. I have done that three times now (from AD&D 2nd ed. through 3.5, as well as other games). I'm done with that. To be honest, I am now in the process of amalgamating the rules of some of my favorite games for a set of house rules that I will use whenever I get back to DMing. Dude I know what you mean, that's why I'm looking into other more obscure titles like "monte cook's world of darkness" (world of darkness with d20 rules, and 100% more monte cook!) and stuff like "unhallowed metropolis". Those books seem to be all encompassing, as well as a bunch of other RPG systems not made by wizards of the coast.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,366
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 24, 2009 12:54:12 GMT -5
The release of 4th ed. means that I have stopped playing D&D again. I have no idea if it is good or not (I've heard both good and bad, though mostly good however), but I am not spending another several hundred dollars to get a new library of material. I have done that three times now (from AD&D 2nd ed. through 3.5, as well as other games). I'm done with that. To be honest, I am now in the process of amalgamating the rules of some of my favorite games for a set of house rules that I will use whenever I get back to DMing. Dude I know what you mean, that's why I'm looking into other more obscure titles like "monte cook's world of darkness" (world of darkness with d20 rules, and 100% more monte cook!) and stuff like "unhallowed metropolis". Those books seem to be all encompassing, as well as a bunch of other RPG systems not made by wizards of the coast. Yeah, I am basically trying to adapt a dead game system (the James Bond RPG by Victory Games) for use in both fantasy and sci-fi settings. Supplemental material (for which I have relatively simple conversion rules) would essentially be any d20 sourcebook that I approve of (which includes D&D 3.X and WotC's earlier Star Wars RPG). Leveling will be done by spending any XP earned as generation points. In a nutshell, I plan on creating a mixed game. In my world, a group of nerds stumbled upon an actual religious relic that allowed them to become gods. Being nerds, they reshaped their immediate universe to please them. Planets were terraformed, magic became real, many humans were transformed into different races (Orc, Elf, Dwarf, Klingon, Vulcan, Wookie, etc.), characters from their favorite sci-fi and fantasy stories became real, advanced technology blinked into existence (whether or not they are really possible or not, as magic powered the unreal ones), and a nice portion of the Milky Way has been majorly altered. To be specific, player characters will be entry level operatives of Andar and Ugg Industries, a megacorporation that has strong political ties in most known worlds (and acts as the de facto government in some). They'll be sent to many different worlds, though most for the sake of familiarity will be terraformed worlds in this solar system. They will protect the interests of the company (which will usually be well-intended enough). The fun will be how different each world will be. For instance, in order to deal with the problem of being to close to the Sun the god who terraformed Mercury created a time bubble around the world. Time on Mercury moves much faster than time elsewhere, so that the rate of sunlight that hits the planet is proportional as to make the planet temperate. Because traveling through a time bubble is dangerous for a ship, most travel to and from the planet passes through a magical gateway that connects Mercury and Earth. In order to prevent the locals from rebelling, the ruler that controls the gateway keeps most of the planet technologically backwards (roughly on par with how Earth was in WWI). Earth, on the other hand, has technologies from Star Wars, Star Trek, BSG, Stargate, etc available to the public. Most other planets fit somewhere between the extremes.
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Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on May 24, 2009 14:57:35 GMT -5
I love table top RPGs, even though my recent group has broken up due to a fight I had with one of the players.
I'm a huge fan of D&D 3.0/3.5, as well as Star Wars Saga Edition RPG, Vampire: The Masquerade, DC Super Heroes RPG (Mayfair system) and Marvel RPG (TSR version with the "unearthly" and "Incredible" stats)
I absolutely hate 4th edition D&D. While I know that 3.5 books were cranked out to make money, I feel that 4th is doing so 5 times worse. I like the art in the books, but I hate that they screwed with the alignment system the way they did. Angels, certain gods, elves, and other beings who are pretty much ALWAYS some sort of good are now "unaligned" while Demons, Devils, and other creatures that are pretty much ALWAYS evil, remain ALWAYS evil. If you want to dump/change the alignment system, fine, but do it for everyone. I can't help but feel that with the inclusion of the "unaligned" alignment and so many good creatures and raced being changed to unaligned, that 4th edition was created by the same sort of loser players that love playing "chaotic neutral" in campaigns, so that they can actually play chaotic evil.
Getting off that rant, I always here how great Champions, WEG Star Wars, and Shadowrunner are, but I just don't like any of them. I can't stand d6 games, and find such games subpar. One game that is horribly under rated is the DC Super Heroes Mayfair RPG. That game really allowed a lot of leeway for players to alter the game with hero points and the like...I just thought it was great...probably the best super hero RPG ever made (and I'm a Marvel fan who hates Batman and Superman!)
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on May 24, 2009 15:10:36 GMT -5
I HATE D&D 4th Ed. Namely for one reason, the ass raping of the magic system.
Now Clerics can do Arcane spells without having to take levels of wizard or warlock and wizards and warlocks can do divine(read, Cleric) spells without taking a few levels of Cleric or even Druid.
Also, WHY did they remove Druid from being a basic character class?!
Oh, and the having to do a ritual for EVERY f***ING SPELL! For example, things like Magic Missile or Knock were quick fire spells for a reason. Magic Missile cause you need to do quick damage and Knock cause, well you want to open the f***ing lock faster.
But now we have to stop and do an elaborate ritual...just to open a f***ing lock?!
No....f***....that....
Give me 3.5 D&D or give me Death....and a chance to roll a d20 to see if I live.....
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Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on May 24, 2009 17:32:58 GMT -5
I HATE D&D 4th Ed. Namely for one reason, the ass raping of the magic system. Now Clerics can do Arcane spells without having to take levels of wizard or warlock and wizards and warlocks can do divine(read, Cleric) spells without taking a few levels of Cleric or even Druid. Also, WHY did they remove Druid from being a basic character class?! Oh, and the having to do a ritual for EVERY snorkING SPELL! For example, things like Magic Missile or Knock were quick fire spells for a reason. Magic Missile cause you need to do quick damage and Knock cause, well you want to open the snorking lock faster. But now we have to stop and do an elaborate ritual...just to open a snorking lock?! No....snork....that.... Give me 3.5 D&D or give me Death....and a chance to roll a d20 to see if I live..... Blessings upon thee and all your future kin, sir! I definately concur!
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on May 24, 2009 17:41:21 GMT -5
Also, can we expand this thread from Table Top RPGs to all Table Top games? You know to include the war games and strategy games, and f*** it, even the card games and board games.
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Post by Aceorton on May 24, 2009 18:17:23 GMT -5
We just moved to a new place, and my wife has arranged all of my long-ignored D&D books (3.5) on a cute little shelf next to my computer. I NEED to start running a campaign again. It's been years.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on May 24, 2009 19:06:03 GMT -5
I'm versed in various systems from over the years (D&D 3/3.5, GURPS 3e, Universalis, FUDGE, Risus, various Palladium games, Mutants & Masterminds) but my system of choice is HERO System 5th edition (but a 6th is on the way). For those that would like to catch more BRB action, I can be found at their website, www.herogames.com/forums as "The Main Man." Funny thing, here we're having a niche Tabletop Gaming thread while over there they have a niche Professional Wrestling thread. Then there's their upcoming product (available on PDF right now, but coming to print soon) Lucha Libre HERO! So shameless promotion aside, in the end, while I have a system of choice, I'm generally open to playing anything.
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Post by teamjd on May 24, 2009 19:10:44 GMT -5
CCG's are where its at, you nerds
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on May 24, 2009 19:11:59 GMT -5
Them's fighting words, you cardflopper!
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,366
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 24, 2009 20:42:30 GMT -5
If we are talking about table top games in general, who else loves Classic Battletech as much as I do? I would actually rather play that than anything else, but no one ever plays it. That sucks, since the last time I was able to regularly play it was 12 years ago.
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Post by BoilerRoomBrawler on May 24, 2009 20:44:19 GMT -5
Never played it unfortunately, but I hear mostly good things about it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2009 21:07:55 GMT -5
I finally understand how the 2nd edition players felt when 3rd came out, except its even worse. I liked 3.5; I had few problems with the system and could teach people to adequately play it in about 20 minutes. It didn't need a change, IMO.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
Knows when to hold them, knows when to fold them
I've been found out!
Posts: 31,366
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on May 24, 2009 21:41:17 GMT -5
I finally understand how the 2nd edition players felt when 3rd came out, except its even worse. I liked 3.5; I had few problems with the system and could teach people to adequately play it in about 20 minutes. It didn't need a change, IMO. The switch to 3.0 was worse, for a number of reasons. 1) It was the first system released after the collapse of TSR. WotC was an entity that many of us were dying to reject (especially since at the time they were only known for the evil that is Magic the Gathering). 2) Most of us had been playing 2nd edition for a decade or so when 3.0 came out. It was not uncommon for every group of players to have created our own house supplementals which did not translate well into 3.0. (Actually, I had downloaded a really cool home brewed sourcebook known as Tome of the Damned, Vol. 1.666). 3) We had assembled 11 years worth of TSR source material. My own personal library of material was worth about $200, but the family (husband, wife, 3 of 4 kids, and future son-in-law) that I normally played with had a library that was easily worth $500+. Never before had any of us been asked to accept that much source material to be made useless. 4) While 2nd ed had gone through some significant updates over the years, none of them massively changed the gameplay. 3.0 truly changed things, and it did not seem that necessary at the time (even though it made the game more accessible for new players). Sure, I'll admit that those views were wrong, but at the time it seemed wrong. 5) While it should not matter, let us not forget that 3.0 was co-packaged with that horrid movie (which was truly stupid since they owned the rights to several classic stories (especially the Dragonlance stories).
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Goldenbane
Hank Scorpio
THE G.D. Goldenbane
Posts: 7,331
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Post by Goldenbane on May 25, 2009 0:44:37 GMT -5
I finally understand how the 2nd edition players felt when 3rd came out, except its even worse. I liked 3.5; I had few problems with the system and could teach people to adequately play it in about 20 minutes. It didn't need a change, IMO. The switch to 3.0 was worse, for a number of reasons. 1) It was the first system released after the collapse of TSR. WotC was an entity that many of us were dying to reject (especially since at the time they were only known for the evil that is Magic the Gathering). 2) Most of us had been playing 2nd edition for a decade or so when 3.0 came out. It was not uncommon for every group of players to have created our own house supplementals which did not translate well into 3.0. (Actually, I had downloaded a really cool home brewed sourcebook known as Tome of the Damned, Vol. 1.666). 3) We had assembled 11 years worth of TSR source material. My own personal library of material was worth about $200, but the family (husband, wife, 3 of 4 kids, and future son-in-law) that I normally played with had a library that was easily worth $500+. Never before had any of us been asked to accept that much source material to be made useless. 4) While 2nd ed had gone through some significant updates over the years, none of them massively changed the gameplay. 3.0 truly changed things, and it did not seem that necessary at the time (even though it made the game more accessible for new players). Sure, I'll admit that those views were wrong, but at the time it seemed wrong. 5) While it should not matter, let us not forget that 3.0 was co-packaged with that horrid movie (which was truly stupid since they owned the rights to several classic stories (especially the Dragonlance stories). I definately see your point, especially with the Dungeons and Dragons movie! (Why have the STILL not brought Raistlin, Drizzt, or Elminster to the big screen yet? And I'm not talking about that lame ass cartoon that was released for Dragonlance a year or so back) My thing, though, is 3rd edition didn't get to have that long a life span, yet I have thousands of dollars invested into it (the miniatures were made virtually essential when 3.5 rules came out...2nd edition didn't need them). But 2nd edition had a lot of rules that were extremely broken and needed badly to be fixed. "Sorry wizard, you can swing that staff, but don't even think about picking up that club and swinging it! It's just too different for you to use!" "Ok wizard, you casted a spell...you get 100 experience times the level of that spell...fighter, you actually killed the monster so you get experience for the HD of the monster...thief you climbed that wall, so that's 200 xp for you...cleric...you didn't convince anyone in this dark dank stinky cavern to worship your god. All your friends already worship him/her that gave you xp early on...but those drow might have changed their minds before the party killed them...NO XP FOR YOU!"
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Post by MiLo Duck on May 25, 2009 1:45:26 GMT -5
Vampire: the Masquerade represent! Old World of Darkness for life yo!
Much like D&D 4th edition I honestly don't know what the new stuff is like nor do I really care to. Me and my friends have huge libraries of the old stuff and are at the point were we just have no real practical need to buy new stuff other than the occasional one shot novelty RPG system like the Serenity or Dune system that is just self contained little one book deals. Hell, I'm almost out of space as is. I have a waste high stack in the corner of stuff that doesn't fit on my bookshelf.
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Post by Koda, Master Crunchyroller on May 25, 2009 1:59:18 GMT -5
Hey, have any of you guys tried any of the "make your own Super Hero/Comic Book Character/Anime Character" RPGs yet?
My local game store has a lot of books like these and they seem interesting, and most of them are d20 systems.
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