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Post by Bubble Lead on Mar 19, 2009 18:04:52 GMT -5
HHH is like a Michaels or Hart type. He will never draw huge numbers, but he is a dependable hand with enough fanbase to draw enough to keep afloat. He is a guy they can turn to when they are not exactly sure where to go but need to keep the gears running.
Look to his 2002 face run. That was his chance to become a top level draw, but it failed.
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MrBRulzOK
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Mar 19, 2009 18:05:30 GMT -5
Really, anybody can draw if you think about it. If even one person buys a ticket just to a see a certain wrestler, whether it be John Cena or Festus, well... then they are drawing that one person into buying the show. So really, almost anybody can draw on the current roster.
Now, if you're talking about someone drawing WELL, then that's another story entirely.
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Post by Mr Kimura on Mar 19, 2009 18:06:27 GMT -5
Because we are on a new page and posters have a nasty habit of ignoring previous pages and miss my posts towards the end of the page, I repost this:
Well, thats what being a draw is all about. Getting fans to the arenas, putting asses in seats, and selling the merch. The people at the shows are Wrestling primary demographic. In terms of buyrates and TV ratings, no single star draws that. Good, well booked angles draw the buyrates and ratings. Was it Austin who drew the 5.something TV rating or was it the angle with McMahon that drew it?
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Space City's Own
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Post by Space City's Own on Mar 19, 2009 18:06:42 GMT -5
Now, if you're talking about someone drawing WELL, then that's another story entirely. Pretty sure that's what was meant.
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Post by Loki on Mar 19, 2009 18:09:27 GMT -5
Politics... meh... that's 90% old women's gossip.
But yes, Triple H has been around the top of the card for nearly a decade. His fault? Politics? Or maybe...
* Austin: retired due to injuries * Foley: retired due to injuries * Rock: left for Hollywood * Hogan: semi-retired and broken down * Flair: fallen from grace for years, got a credible last run [thanks to who? Hmmm, Triple H maybe?] befor a glorious retirement * Nash: brittle and old * Angle: got released due to health issues, now in TNA * Goldberg: fired and now doing God knows what * Scott Steiner: see Goldberg * Brock Lesnar: left for NFL, MMA, NJPW... * Eddie Guerrero: deceased * Chris Benoit: deceased
Soooooooooo, that pretty much covers the 10 years of Triple H "politicking his way to his spot".
A pretty long list of Main Eventers who came and went, and I'm not listing the ones HHH "buried", but who came back to get their 10 minutes of Main Event before leaving for good. Or those who are still around the main event.
What was Vince supposed to do? Throw the two most over midcarders at hands in a main event program, hoping for the best?
Triple H hasn't been DOMINATING, he's been keeping it together while WWE were frantically looking for a new set of Main Eventers. That's why he's been more or less at the top of every PPV from 2002 onwards.
It's like when a sports team loses most of their stars, and rebuild it around the few "leftovers" of the glory days.
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Post by Mr Kimura on Mar 19, 2009 18:11:09 GMT -5
If RVD got busted for pot while Champion in 2006 he could very well have been busted for pot in 2002/2003.
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Post by MichaelMartini on Mar 19, 2009 18:26:22 GMT -5
Well, thats what being a draw is all about. Getting fans to the arenas, putting asses in seats, and selling the merch. The people at the shows are Wrestling primary demographic. In terms of buyrates and TV ratings, no single star draws that. Good, well booked angles draw the buyrates and ratings. Was it Austin who drew the 5.something TV rating or was it the angle with McMahon that drew it? It was Austin. There wouldn't have been that storyline without the character that he played and Austin had substantial creative input. Vince deserves credit as well, as much as Piper deserves for helping to make Hogan. But people paid to see Austin. HHH might some people's favorite but he's never been a household name and he's been giving the biggest push anyone has ever had and countless storylines and angles. HHH's creative input results in stuff like Katie Vick.
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Post by Mr Kimura on Mar 19, 2009 18:30:56 GMT -5
Well, thats what being a draw is all about. Getting fans to the arenas, putting asses in seats, and selling the merch. The people at the shows are Wrestling primary demographic. In terms of buyrates and TV ratings, no single star draws that. Good, well booked angles draw the buyrates and ratings. Was it Austin who drew the 5.something TV rating or was it the angle with McMahon that drew it? It was Austin. There wouldn't have been that storyline without the character that he played and Austin had substantial creative input. Vince deserves credit as well, as much as Piper deserves for helping to make Hogan. But people paid to see Austin. HHH might some people's favorite but he's never been a household name and he's been giving the biggest push anyone has ever had and countless storylines and angles. HHH's creative input results in stuff like Katie Vick. 1. Your right. people did pay to go to the show to see Austin. But do you think that if the booking of Austin McMahon was booked horribley people would tune in and buy the PPVs? Of course not. 2. Katie Vick was Vince's idea. Triple H just went along with it.
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sloride
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Post by sloride on Mar 19, 2009 18:35:30 GMT -5
Katie Vick was Vince's idea. HHH on the McMahon DVD said he told Vince that it was an awful idea and Vince being Vince didn't listen so he just did what he was told to do.
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queenbee
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Post by queenbee on Mar 20, 2009 12:39:47 GMT -5
If I was in wrestling I would play politics too. Does that make me a bad person? He may have been using politics, made the right friends but to completely credit him to where he is now just because of politicking is unfair. 10 years ago, when he still wasn't dating Stephanie did he get blasted so much like he was now?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2009 13:04:58 GMT -5
HHH has always been good at helping his OPPONENT draw, and I guess that's good enough.
Barring the current HHH/Orton storyline, the simple "Can x beat HHH?" continues to be a successful draw.
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Ramses
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Post by Ramses on Mar 20, 2009 14:32:04 GMT -5
ok, totally off topic and possibly thread hijacking, but when I read this: I thought it was a thread about Triple H and his artistic skills.
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Post by TRUTH TELLER on Mar 20, 2009 15:54:08 GMT -5
What was Vince supposed to do? Throw the two most over midcarders at hands in a main event program, hoping for the best? You mean like he did with HHH in 1999? Sorry to burst your bubble, but outside of guys like Hogan or Austin who catch fire, this is how you make new stars. You take an over guy with the crowd, and strap a rocket to his ass. They don't do this nearly enough anymore. Or only do it half-assed. The funny thing is, yesterday's top stars like Austin, Rock & HHH would have never gotten over to the same degree today if WWE conducted business the way they do now, with all the stalled momentum and stubborn status quos. Triple H hasn't been DOMINATING, he's been keeping it together while WWE were frantically looking for a new set of Main Eventers. That's why he's been more or less at the top of every PPV from 2002 onwards. While that's a decent defense for HHH, it's total condemnation for WWE and how its booked. It's been 7 years. They should have churned out a whole generation of new stars on top. The fact that HHH main events WM year after year exposes how stale they are, not how over HHH is. HHH is awesome. But he's wrestled the same guys ad nauseam for years. And that's WWE's fault. They're like a retarded kid who only plays with the same 4 toys, while having a box full of awesome new unopened ones.
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Post by Cyno on Mar 20, 2009 16:23:24 GMT -5
When in WWE history has Vince ever allowed a) a main eventer to remain in their spot for as long as HHH b) allowed ANY heel to have such a long run with a world title belt c) not changed things at the top when business starts to fall. A. Hulk Hogan, Andre the Giant, Undertaker, Shawn Michaels, Batista, and John Cena all have long, prominent Main Event spots and have consistently held on to them for much of their careers. They might not have been chasing or holding world titles, but they were still in the main event spotlight. B. JBL and Yokozuna say "hi." C. John Cena's superman reign. Triple H IS a draw and is one of the most consistent draws in WWE history. He was never THE guy like Hogan, Austin, or Rock were, but he's been one of their most reliable guys for a long time.
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Post by corndog on Mar 20, 2009 18:19:48 GMT -5
Obviously HHH can draw to a certain degree and would label him a franchise player along with HBK and Undertaker. I also think he certainly still deserves to be a top guy in the company, just not THE guy, which should be John Cena, even though I am not his biggest fan. If someone would say that HHH is still not treated as the top guy they are being ridiculous. Look at how much air time his fued with Orton is getting, and also realize he is the world heavyweight champion, and has I believe 12 title reigns, or wait isn't this 13? Now to the people who said he would main event arenas during the attitude era without Rock and Austin, but still sell out. This is probably true, even though it never happened in my city, but that is because the business was doing well, people just wanted to see wrestling. They did save the Rock(sometimes) and especially Austin for the "A shows" and would go with someone else for the smaller venues. Look at the WWF in the 80s when Hogan was the top star. The WWF would always come to Ft.Wayne through out the mid-80s and there were plenty of near sell outs with main events like Terry Funk vs JYD, Honky Tonk Man vs Ricky Steamboat, King Kong Bundy vs Koko B. Ware. These guys were all pretty much main eventers, but not exactly the top stars, however the shows still did good numbers. Not to mention that the undercards of these shows were mainly a bunch of jobber matches and a couple mid carders facing jobbers. In most of the cards HHH would main event there was probably other matches people wanted to see. Heck I remember during the "Invasion" era, HHH main event a show in Ft.Wayne in a smaller venue(about 4000-5000 seats), but the reason I went and actually the match with the best reaction was RVD vs Jericho. Nowadays, headlining a card is alot different. There are much better supporting undercards for matches. Basically what I am saying is alot of HHH's "drawing power" came from the popularity of the business and the fact that people were watching because of Austin, the Rock and now Cena. Yes, he can sell merchandise, and DX was hugely popular and sucessful with him as the leader. But what would he have done without the Rock and Austin. What would have happened if it was just HHH in 98/99? I just don't think he could have carried the company and they would have ultimately turned to someone else. I think HHH did a great job with his spot. He was a great heel in 2000, and heck I still liked the Evolution years. But to say he is a bigger draw than guys like Andre the Giant, Lou Thesz and Bruno Sammartino is absurd. These guys could sell out arenas if their opponent was Barry Harrowitz, and the card was filled with jobbers.
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Post by romafan87 on Mar 20, 2009 18:39:35 GMT -5
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Mar 20, 2009 18:49:30 GMT -5
If I was in wrestling I would play politics too. Does that make me a bad person? Nope, you need to look out for yourself and assume everybody else is doing the same. Absolutely.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Mar 20, 2009 22:31:34 GMT -5
I don't think he's ever been a real draw, because he's always been on a show that had other major draws. In 1998-2001, he had Austin and Rock drawing all the fans, and he was just there to benefit from it. 2002-2004, RAW was considered to be fairly stale because Triple H was expected to be the top draw. Cena came over in 2005, and he was instantly the big draw, carrying into 2006 where his feud with Edge was carrying the show while Triple H was running around pantsing male cheerleaders.
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Mar 20, 2009 23:43:11 GMT -5
Triple H has a vested interest in not screwing over the paranoid McMahon... his spot is secure. He loses enough as to the point its not as godawful as it was early 2000's
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Post by supercheese on Mar 21, 2009 4:13:32 GMT -5
Of course he does.
People during his reign of terror bought PPVs to see him finally lose.
It wasn't the challenger that drew, it was Trips. He remained the constant and people kept buying. Vince is/was smart he wouldn't let Triple H have his spot if it wasn't justified.
Think of the rub he has given Orton and Batista? Would any of them be as credible as they are just now if it wasn't for Triple H?
You can't say he was carried by everyone to good feuds. He's had a few poor ones lately but that's Creatives fault not his.
He's a good wrestler and a good build. Decent on the mic. DX is one of the biggest draws in the WWE, this remained the same after HBK left. And you can't tell me every other member of the faction was more popular.
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