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Post by skyday1402 on Jul 15, 2005 15:51:52 GMT -5
Most Underated: Jimmy Yang. OH WAIT, I CAN'T PUT HIM THERE, AS THE WWE HAVE RELEASED HIM. I HATE EVERYONE!!!! VINCE!!!! STEPHANIE!!!! DIVAS!!! JUUULLLIAAAAAAAA ROBERTS!!!! (*BLAM*!) My sentiments on Charlie Haas.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2005 15:54:16 GMT -5
I don't like the "So and So's a dick outside the ring, so lets hate him" thing either.
But when it comes to JBL he sucks in and out of the ring. He's got a 80s gimmick, he's less agile than Big Show and he ruined the credibility of the WWE title by winning it after being a life time midcarder.
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The OP
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Post by The OP on Jul 15, 2005 16:14:26 GMT -5
But when it comes to JBL he sucks in and out of the ring. He's got a 80s gimmick, he's less agile than Big Show and he ruined the credibility of the WWE title by winning it after being a life time midcarder. Big Show was NEVER as agile in the ring, even when he was younger and thinner as JBL is RIGHT NOW. I agree with Asics, for a man his size, his wrestling is very good. He paid his dues, came up with a good gimmick that ties in well with who he is in real life (an 80s gimmick? what does that even mean?) and was rewarded with a championship reign that was much more entertaining than most (and that includes Benoit, Guerrero, Orton, Big Show, etc.) Most underrated? You better believe it's the man who carried Smackdown! for over a year, and was instrumental in helping to get John Cena over, who is arguably the company's biggest moneymaker. In short, JBL is a wrestling...GOD! And as far as who is a good/bad person, I don't personally know either of them, but I fail to see how when JBL was more than happy to risk his life to go entertain soldiers in Iraq, Blue Meanie is automatically a better person because he sat behind his computer and talked to people online.
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Post by Tapout on Jul 15, 2005 16:21:54 GMT -5
Who are the most overrated and the most underrated workers in the WWE right now? Discuss. Overrated: Red show Trips (JR putting him over by comparing him to Race and Flair sounds more ridiculous every time he does it) Michaels Cena Angle (he's a shadow of his former self now) Snitsky (look up "overrated" in a dictionary and this guy's photo will be there) Edge Trish Stratus (NOT a good worker) Blue show Orton (see Snitsky) Batista (this guy is still seriously green) JBL London Heidenreich (awful worker, awful gimmick) Bob "why isn't this guy released yet?" Holly Orlando "why is this guy US champ?" Jordan Undertaker Torrie Underrated: Red show Kane Dinsmore Dupree (lots of potential, should have kept the French poodle gimmick) Val Venis (solid worker, very good promos, why isn't he getting pushed?) Victoria (best women's worker in the E now) Blue show Benoit Guererro Booker Regal Richards Nova Super Crazy (putting him in a lameass racist angle is just sad) Psicosis (taking off his mask and putting him in a lameass racist angle is even sadder) Scotty "2 Hotty" Taylor (yeah, yeah, the worm sucks, but the guy is actually a much better worker than anyone gives him credit for, and he still gets good reactions) Teddy Long (just turn him heel again and we'll be back in business)
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Post by Freakzilla on Jul 15, 2005 16:27:54 GMT -5
I agree. JBL, for me, is one of the most entertaining characters in WWE at the moment and is without doubt Smackdowns top heel. His promos are amusing and he knows how to get heat from the crowd. He may be just a brawler in the ring but that does'nt take away from his entertainment value.
Most of the hatred he receives is based mainly on hearsay rumours about his backstage reputation. Judging him from a character viewpoint he is very good at his job - that of being an amusing heel.
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Post by kanyoncutter on Jul 15, 2005 16:36:29 GMT -5
Big Show was NEVER as agile in the ring, even when he was younger and thinner as JBL is RIGHT NOW. I agree with Asics, for a man his size, his wrestling is very good. He paid his dues, came up with a good gimmick that ties in well with who he is in real life (an 80s gimmick? what does that even mean?) The 80s gimmick comment means that he is dynasty's JR Ewing mixed with the Million Dollar Man both big in the 80s. This comment is also very true.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jul 15, 2005 16:37:18 GMT -5
I think the question is "Over/under-rated by who?".
If you mean by the marks, then I'd say Orton, Cena, and Batista are the most overrated.
If you mean by smarks, I'd say Christian and Carlito. I can appreciate them as fun characters, as well as guys who actually know what they're doing in the ring, but you'd think Christian was the next Steamboat by the way some people seem to idolize him.
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The OP
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Post by The OP on Jul 15, 2005 16:43:14 GMT -5
Big Show was NEVER as agile in the ring, even when he was younger and thinner as JBL is RIGHT NOW. I agree with Asics, for a man his size, his wrestling is very good. He paid his dues, came up with a good gimmick that ties in well with who he is in real life (an 80s gimmick? what does that even mean?) The 80s gimmick comment means that he is dynasty's JR Ewing mixed with the Million Dollar Man both big in the 80s. This comment is also very true. Which comment?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2005 16:43:29 GMT -5
I think that Carlito is slightly overrated by the IWC. But Christian has never been put in a positiion where he could shine, so the boats still out on him.
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Post by vitamink on Jul 15, 2005 18:09:32 GMT -5
Overrated: Chris Benoit HHH Carlito Christian Hassan
Underrated: Batista Orton JBL
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Post by Loki on Jul 15, 2005 19:41:51 GMT -5
Overrated
Booker T. Consistently in the upper-midcard. I still don't get what's so good with him. Carlito. Quite enjoyable on the mic, abysmal in the ring. Honky Tonk Man II, the revenge. Cena. He's mega over. How long will he last? Batista. Interesting to see how he does without Triple H's guidance. Orton. Too much too early. OJ. Why is he U.S. champ? Matt Hardy. More cheers in 2 months than in his whole WWE career. From Zero to Hero. Snitsky. Never liked him, never will. Hogan. Til dead do us part?
Underrated
Jericho. Potential megastar turned into a jobber to the "stars" Christian. Maybe not World Championship material, but a solid contender. Kane. The Big Job Machine maybe's on his way up.
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Crook
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Post by Crook on Jul 15, 2005 20:08:22 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]UnderRated[/glow]
Big Show- 3rd best big man wrestler in the buisness . Behind Lesnar and Kane(assuming lesnar returns). He can work a pretty good match when he is against the right people, and I always enjoy him as champ because it is instantly beleavable. It's not his fault he has been booked wrong for so long. f*** all you smarky bastards that say otherwise.
Scotty2Hotty- it's not to late to change his gimmick he is still young.
Randy Orton- He is leagues ahead of Cena from what WWE has shown us although i have never seen Cena's work as "Prototype". Plus he has had alot of good matches, most of his matches are good actualy. It's just shoving him down our throat's and shoving him into the main event before he was ready made alot of you hate him. Tell me he wasent a good IC champ, or Tag champ.
Cena's Heel work- he was great on the mic and alot better in the ring I know that sounds stupid but it's true. I think he was aloud to do more moves at that time because he was a heel, now he is limited to moves that will get pops (five knuckle shuffle).
Kane- He has more than paid his dues and is imo the second best big man in the buisness and in a company full of hosses that's saying alot. Another thing is even though he isent built as muscular as some of the other big guys he is still much more intimidating in appearence.
Kurt Angle- I know he has had alot of success and I know it will continue and he will continue to be a main eventer, but i am putting him here because what that idiot said about him being a shadow of his former self offended me.
HBK- This guy is incredible for him to be at the level he is at after spending so many years away from wrestling is amazing. I feel he was robbed of years of his career and I hope he sticks around for awhile.
Biker Taker gimmick- So much more believable than "dead man" Taker and so much less embarrasing. Plus we got to see he is not half bad on the stick.
Val Venis- he was great as chief morley and was getting lots of heat to, it did not make any sense to change him back. He is so much better as a heel.
Rikishi- he was a great worker despite what alot of people say, he was a good IC champ and I think he had the US champ for although i cant remeber. He was also a great tag champ, it's just that his gimmick was outdated and he was just booked wrong. compared to some of the hosses we are getting now he looked like Angle.
[glow=red,2,300]Overrated[/glow]
Snitsky- although he is right were he should be on the card, and he can be insanley funny (unintentionaly) i dont see why everyone loves him so much.
Cena's face mic work- his raps just got so stupid after he bacame a face, although I did like it when he was funny and goofy but than outta nowhere just got super intense. It was like a balance, not it's just intense all the time and it is not working.
Viscera- He is nowhere near as funny as everyone seems to think.
JBL- great on the mic ok in the ring, I just dont think he is a great as alot of people belieave.
Returning Legends- Maybe one or two every so often but not the constant line of them we have been getting.
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Post by Tapout on Jul 15, 2005 20:15:21 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]Kurt Angle- I know he has had alot of success and I know it will continue and he will continue to be a main eventer, but i am putting him here because what that idiot said about him being a shadow of his former self offended me. Putting your little "idiot" comment aside, if you have eyes that work, you can see that Kurt isn't at the level he used to be, which was amazing. Was. Now, he's smaller, he's much slower, his promos are a lot less interesting, and he's not destroying people with suplex after suplex after suplex the way he used to in his earlier years or even his 2002/2003 run on the blue show. That's not because he's jobbed out, it's partially due to safe style, but also partially because he's too banged up to go at that pace anymore. If you actually know anything at all about Angle, you'll know he's gone through multiple neck surgeries and his last procedure was experimental rushed him back to the ring faster than the standard one. If you can't see that, go get some eyes that do work.
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Crook
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Post by Crook on Jul 15, 2005 20:29:20 GMT -5
[glow=red,2,300]Kurt Angle- I know he has had alot of success and I know it will continue and he will continue to be a main eventer, but i am putting him here because what that idiot said about him being a shadow of his former self offended me. Putting your little "idiot" comment aside, if you have eyes that work, you can see that Kurt isn't at the level he used to be, which was amazing. Was. Now, he's smaller, he's much slower, his promos are a lot less interesting, and he's not destroying people with suplex after suplex after suplex the way he used to in his earlier years or even his 2002/2003 run on the blue show. That's not because he's jobbed out, it's partially due to safe style, but also partially because he's too banged up to go at that pace anymore. If you actually know anything at all about Angle, you'll know he's gone through multiple neck surgeries and his last procedure was experimental rushed him back to the ring faster than the standard one. If you can't see that, go get some eyes that do work. I along with everyone else on this board am aware of Angles neck injuries, and I along with probably everyone else on this board are aware at how banged up he has gotten over the years. I just cant phathom you calling him a shadow of his former self after he is consistently the highlight of PPV's or Raw or SD. If his promo's have gotten less inttresting it's more than likley because the writing team sucks. You can be the most charasmatic person in the world but your not gonna make perverted beastiality sex angles work. My eyes are working fine and, and from what I see is sure Angle may not be as fast as he once was (who would be after going through what he has?), and he may not be going around destroying everyone on the roster (he has been helping to put over other people), but to call him a shadow of his former self?No thats just wrong the man is constantly entertaining and he is constantly putting on 4 - 5 star matches. Have you considered he also does not have the name power to go up against that he once had?
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Post by Tapout on Jul 15, 2005 20:58:22 GMT -5
Putting your little "idiot" comment aside, if you have eyes that work, you can see that Kurt isn't at the level he used to be, which was amazing. Was. Now, he's smaller, he's much slower, his promos are a lot less interesting, and he's not destroying people with suplex after suplex after suplex the way he used to in his earlier years or even his 2002/2003 run on the blue show. That's not because he's jobbed out, it's partially due to safe style, but also partially because he's too banged up to go at that pace anymore. If you actually know anything at all about Angle, you'll know he's gone through multiple neck surgeries and his last procedure was experimental rushed him back to the ring faster than the standard one. If you can't see that, go get some eyes that do work. I along with everyone else on this board am aware of Angles neck injuries, and I along with probably everyone else on this board are aware at how banged up he has gotten over the years. I just cant phathom you calling him a shadow of his former self after he is consistently the highlight of PPV's or Raw or SD. If his promo's have gotten less inttresting it's more than likley because the writing team sucks. You can be the most charasmatic person in the world but your not gonna make perverted beastiality sex angles work. My eyes are working fine and, and from what I see is sure Angle may not be as fast as he once was (who would be after going through what he has?), and he may not be going around destroying everyone on the roster (he has been helping to put over other people), but to call him a shadow of his former self?No thats just wrong the man is constantly entertaining and he is constantly putting on 4 - 5 star matches. Have you considered he also does not have the name power to go up against that he once had? See if you can "phathom" this: he is slower, as you admit, he is not wrestling the amazing matches he was once, as you admit, and he is not delivering the hilarious promos he used to, as you admit. He used to be incredible both in the ring and on the stick, now he isn't. A shadow of his former self, in other words. By the way, being the highlight of a PPV these days isn't real hard to do. If the card consists of Heidenreich, Orton, and old, old Undertaker, it's not real hard to shine. It's a lot tougher to steal the show when you're booked up against Rocky, Austin, and Trips...something that Angle used to be capable of doing. For the record, this year's Wrestlemania was the first one he's ever one. He did the job in every other Mania he was in prior to that. According to some recent interviews, it sounds like he's gotten a little more protective of his spot these days, but I'm not talking about whether he wins or loses. I'm talking about the Angle of 2001 who would german suplex, beal, belly to belly, angle slam from the top rope the ever loving crap out of everybody, win or lose, as compared to the Angle of today, who uses a lot more clotheslines, a lot fewer suplexes, and just isn't anywhere near as crisp or fast as he used to be. In other words, a shadow of himself. If you can put aside the unreasonable rage for two seconds, you might be surprised by what I'm about to say: I'm was a huge Kurt Angle mark and used to mark out hard for his matches. The reason I can tell the difference between his performance then and now is because I've seen all his matches and promos at his best, and I've seen his performance drop down to where it is now. Read what both of us wrote and you'll actually see that you agree with me.
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Post by thehatman on Jul 15, 2005 21:00:55 GMT -5
Big Show was NEVER as agile in the ring, even when he was younger and thinner as JBL is RIGHT NOW. I agree with Asics, for a man his size, his wrestling is very good. He paid his dues, came up with a good gimmick that ties in well with who he is in real life (an 80s gimmick? what does that even mean?) and was rewarded with a championship reign that was much more entertaining than most (and that includes Benoit, Guerrero, Orton, Big Show, etc.) Most underrated? You better believe it's the man who carried Smackdown! for over a year, and was instrumental in helping to get John Cena over, who is arguably the company's biggest moneymaker. In short, JBL is a wrestling...GOD! And as far as who is a good/bad person, I don't personally know either of them, but I fail to see how when JBL was more than happy to risk his life to go entertain soldiers in Iraq, Blue Meanie is automatically a better person because he sat behind his computer and talked to people online. Honestly, with the sheer amount of protection they got, I don't call it risking his life. If someone deserves respect it's RVD for actually standing up to his boss and NOT going, in accordance to his own political opinion. So there.
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Post by Tapout on Jul 15, 2005 21:09:20 GMT -5
Big Show was NEVER as agile in the ring, even when he was younger and thinner as JBL is RIGHT NOW. I agree with Asics, for a man his size, his wrestling is very good. He paid his dues, came up with a good gimmick that ties in well with who he is in real life (an 80s gimmick? what does that even mean?) and was rewarded with a championship reign that was much more entertaining than most (and that includes Benoit, Guerrero, Orton, Big Show, etc.) Most underrated? You better believe it's the man who carried Smackdown! for over a year, and was instrumental in helping to get John Cena over, who is arguably the company's biggest moneymaker. In short, JBL is a wrestling...GOD! And as far as who is a good/bad person, I don't personally know either of them, but I fail to see how when JBL was more than happy to risk his life to go entertain soldiers in Iraq, Blue Meanie is automatically a better person because he sat behind his computer and talked to people online. Honestly, with the sheer amount of protection they got, I don't call it risking his life. If someone deserves respect it's RVD for actually standing up to his boss and NOT going, in accordance to his own political opinion. So there. Back up a second...Tax, you're saying that JBL got Cena over? Were you there for the past 2 years on Smackdown when the guy was getting a continuous slow-burn push, then got his superman push with the US title (where he was booked over the WWE champ against Booker and RVD)? Face Cena was forced down everyone's throats just like Orton and Rocky were. The spinny belt. Always being on TV and being booked to look like someone who was tough to beat was how he got over. JBL had zero to do with Cena getting over, the guy was over before he came anywhere near the world title picture. If anything, it's JBL who owes someone else for getting over. Without Eddie, the JBL heel gimmick would've been a complete failure. Remember the German goose step? Did that get him over? The WWE.com columns? The "I stop Mexicans at the border" promos? Nothing got him any real heat until Eddie put him over as the evil heel to his popular babyface gimmick. The evil heel who made fun of Eddie's criminal record and who pushed around Eddie's elderly mother. See also Chavo's heel turn and cruiserweight champ run last year. The only reason Chavo got any heat was because he turned on Eddie (very over as a face champ). For the record, people are not claiming Meanie is necessarily a better person, they are claiming JBL is a worse person, because Meanie didn't take a cheap shot, while Bradshaw did.
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by The OP on Jul 15, 2005 21:37:57 GMT -5
Big Show was NEVER as agile in the ring, even when he was younger and thinner as JBL is RIGHT NOW. I agree with Asics, for a man his size, his wrestling is very good. He paid his dues, came up with a good gimmick that ties in well with who he is in real life (an 80s gimmick? what does that even mean?) and was rewarded with a championship reign that was much more entertaining than most (and that includes Benoit, Guerrero, Orton, Big Show, etc.) Most underrated? You better believe it's the man who carried Smackdown! for over a year, and was instrumental in helping to get John Cena over, who is arguably the company's biggest moneymaker. In short, JBL is a wrestling...GOD! And as far as who is a good/bad person, I don't personally know either of them, but I fail to see how when JBL was more than happy to risk his life to go entertain soldiers in Iraq, Blue Meanie is automatically a better person because he sat behind his computer and talked to people online. Honestly, with the sheer amount of protection they got, I don't call it risking his life. If someone deserves respect it's RVD for actually standing up to his boss and NOT going, in accordance to his own political opinion. So there. I see. Staying home and sitting on your ass is much more courageous than going to Iraq. Great argument. I guess since I sit on my ass and smoke weed all the time, I'm an American hero like RVD. Thanks for showing me the light.
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Crook
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Post by Crook on Jul 15, 2005 21:45:58 GMT -5
I along with everyone else on this board am aware of Angles neck injuries, and I along with probably everyone else on this board are aware at how banged up he has gotten over the years. I just cant phathom you calling him a shadow of his former self after he is consistently the highlight of PPV's or Raw or SD. If his promo's have gotten less inttresting it's more than likley because the writing team sucks. You can be the most charasmatic person in the world but your not gonna make perverted beastiality sex angles work. My eyes are working fine and, and from what I see is sure Angle may not be as fast as he once was (who would be after going through what he has?), and he may not be going around destroying everyone on the roster (he has been helping to put over other people), but to call him a shadow of his former self?No thats just wrong the man is constantly entertaining and he is constantly putting on 4 - 5 star matches. Have you considered he also does not have the name power to go up against that he once had? See if you can "phathom" this: he is slower, as you admit, he is not wrestling the amazing matches he was once, as you admit, and he is not delivering the hilarious promos he used to, as you admit. He used to be incredible both in the ring and on the stick, now he isn't. A shadow of his former self, in other words. By the way, being the highlight of a PPV these days isn't real hard to do. If the card consists of Heidenreich, Orton, and old, old Undertaker, it's not real hard to shine. It's a lot tougher to steal the show when you're booked up against Rocky, Austin, and Trips...something that Angle used to be capable of doing. For the record, this year's Wrestlemania was the first one he's ever one. He did the job in every other Mania he was in prior to that. According to some recent interviews, it sounds like he's gotten a little more protective of his spot these days, but I'm not talking about whether he wins or loses. I'm talking about the Angle of 2001 who would german suplex, beal, belly to belly, angle slam from the top rope the ever loving crap out of everybody, win or lose, as compared to the Angle of today, who uses a lot more clotheslines, a lot fewer suplexes, and just isn't anywhere near as crisp or fast as he used to be. In other words, a shadow of himself. If you can put aside the unreasonable rage for two seconds, you might be surprised by what I'm about to say: I'm was a huge Kurt Angle mark and used to mark out hard for his matches. The reason I can tell the difference between his performance then and now is because I've seen all his matches and promos at his best, and I've seen his performance drop down to where it is now. Read what both of us wrote and you'll actually see that you agree with me. I never once that his matches were any less entertaining than they once were. They are not at all. I agreed with you on him having an injured neck and slowing down in the ring i never admitted he was not wrestling amazing matches. Did you see him against HBK? Or against Booker T? Or Flair? he even carried Cena to a solid match. And like I said you cant be expected to cut a awesome promo when you have shit to work with. Another thing to consider is he does not have huge stars to work with like he had in the past, Benoit is on a diffrent show, The Rock is all but gone as is Austin. Sure he has been mucked down a little by crappy storylines and safe style but that does not constitute saying he is a shadow of his former self.
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The OP
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Post by The OP on Jul 15, 2005 21:47:30 GMT -5
Honestly, with the sheer amount of protection they got, I don't call it risking his life. If someone deserves respect it's RVD for actually standing up to his boss and NOT going, in accordance to his own political opinion. So there. Back up a second...Tax, you're saying that JBL got Cena over? Were you there for the past 2 years on Smackdown when the guy was getting a continuous slow-burn push, then got his superman push with the US title (where he was booked over the WWE champ against Booker and RVD)? Face Cena was forced down everyone's throats just like Orton and Rocky were. The spinny belt. Always being on TV and being booked to look like someone who was tough to beat was how he got over. JBL had zero to do with Cena getting over, the guy was over before he came anywhere near the world title picture. If anything, it's JBL who owes someone else for getting over. Without Eddie, the JBL heel gimmick would've been a complete failure. Remember the German goose step? Did that get him over? The WWE.com columns? The "I stop Mexicans at the border" promos? Nothing got him any real heat until Eddie put him over as the evil heel to his popular babyface gimmick. The evil heel who made fun of Eddie's criminal record and who pushed around Eddie's elderly mother. See also Chavo's heel turn and cruiserweight champ run last year. The only reason Chavo got any heat was because he turned on Eddie (very over as a face champ). For the record, people are not claiming Meanie is necessarily a better person, they are claiming JBL is a worse person, because Meanie didn't take a cheap shot, while Bradshaw did. So, Meanie's not a better person than JBL...it's just that's JBL is a worse person. I think everybody must be tired tonight or something. If JBL is worse than Meanie, wouldn't that make Meanie better? Semantics aside, I don't see anything wrong with your argument that Eddie helped put JBL over as a heel. I agree completely, except JBL did get plenty of heat for the things you claim he didn't get any heat for. People still mention the goosestepping sometimes, oh sorry that's "cheap heat". And he got more over after he stopped feuding with Eddie. What I was saying about Cena, is that JBL did a lot to carry the feud, much like Jericho is doing now. Everyone claims that Cena is not so good in the ring but great on the mic, but Cena relies on catchphrases that are less clever than things that guys like JBL and Jericho can come up with for the first time on a weekly basis. Without a capable heel opponent to help carry the feud, Cena's flaws would've been a lot more evident.
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