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Post by Will Has 'Til Five, Ref on Jun 9, 2009 23:31:47 GMT -5
Yeah MMA have no stars.. right.. jeez. Dude, the ONLY MMA/UFC guy I could pick out of a lineup would be Brock Lesnar, and that was because of his WWE run. All the rest are just a bunch of shaved head, tribal tat sportin' bags of generic. If you want to talk bags of generic, check out FCW. The only ones who don't look like they fell out of the Legacy cloning machine are Sheamus O'Shaunessy, Sweet Papi Sanchez, and Bobby Dempsey's long-lost twin Alex/Windham Rotunda.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jun 9, 2009 23:36:04 GMT -5
Dude, the ONLY MMA/UFC guy I could pick out of a lineup would be Brock Lesnar, and that was because of his WWE run. All the rest are just a bunch of shaved head, tribal tat sportin' bags of generic. If you want to talk bags of generic, check out FCW. The only ones who don't look like they fell out of the Legacy cloning machine are Sheamus O'Shaunessy, Sweet Papi Sanchez, and Bobby Dempsey's long-lost twin Alex/Windham Rotunda. The WWE has a real problem with having all of the newer guys they sign and call up having very similar looks and alot of them look like guys you could see on every college campus in America..that's a problem. But MMA has the issue too, most of the guys have bad looks are are covered in bad tattoos.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2009 23:57:43 GMT -5
Screw the UFC I've been more entertained by WEC and Strikeforce lately. I too wish people would stop comparing both wrestling (moreso WWE) and UFC or bringing up UFC being the sole cause of why it's not watched as much anymore.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jun 10, 2009 0:02:56 GMT -5
Screw the UFC I've been more entertained by WEC and Strikeforce lately. I too wish people would stop comparing both wrestling (moreso WWE) and UFC or bringing up UFC being the sole cause of why it's not watched as much anymore. Personally I get most annoyed by sites like F4W and the observer that cover MMA right in with wrestling like they're the same thing. I won't even subscribe to the observer anymore because I want wrestling news you know wrestling observer, I don't want 80% MMA news it's not MMA observer. And if you ask Dave about it he compares it to when people didn't want Lucha news in, Lucha is a part of wrestling MMA is not, it's like he can't understand it.
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Post by richter on Jun 10, 2009 0:03:35 GMT -5
When it comes to MMA Meltzer and Alvarez are like the Apter mags with the Crockett promotions in the 1980's and Bob Ryder with whatever promotion he works for.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jun 10, 2009 0:09:21 GMT -5
I think part of their serious MMA hardon is that they from the beginning didn't like Vince, I know Dave didn't so they need something to latch onto to say "look McMahon is failing".
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BoomerJack
AC Slater
These things just come to me. Sometimes I feel like I have two brilliant minds.
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Post by BoomerJack on Jun 10, 2009 0:09:45 GMT -5
I don't put much stock into what this woman says. She said the following during an interview a couple of months back:
I hope I'm not killing anyone, but WWE produces professional wrestling. And while watching last night's Raw, the last thing I thought of was wow, what great entertainment.
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Post by Cela on Jun 10, 2009 0:12:42 GMT -5
Put any current baseball, nascar, soccer, hockey, boxer other than DelaHoya, or basketball player other than Kobe and Lebron in front of me and I can't tell you who they are. If you don't follow the sport, you probably won't recognize who is in it.
And Tito was the first pure heel in MMA.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jun 10, 2009 0:13:59 GMT -5
I don't put much stock into what this woman says. She said the following during an interview a couple of months back: I hope I'm not killing anyone, but WWE produces professional wrestling. And while watching last night's Raw, the last thing I thought of was wow, what great entertainment. That is a line they frequently used when trying to sell why they could make movies.
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GregP19
Dennis Stamp
COCK COCK
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Post by GregP19 on Jun 10, 2009 0:30:34 GMT -5
MMA is the most overrated/underrated thing ever...it's not nearly as awesome as everyone says it is...yet it's not as apocalyptic as all the haters say it is
As a casual observer... they need to coagulate into one brand and market the fighters individually...and add a women's division...have carano or some other chick headline it...also have a network deal with one of the big 3 networks
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Post by Creeper The Limo Driver on Jun 10, 2009 1:31:59 GMT -5
apples and oranges.
go back to comparing wwe with tna. at least that had some (but not much) merit to it.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jun 10, 2009 1:34:22 GMT -5
apples and oranges. go back to comparing wwe with tna. at least that had some (but not much) merit to it. Not everyone thinks it's apples and oranges, Meltzer doesn't...take a look at his newsletter.
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Post by TRUTH TELLER on Jun 10, 2009 2:15:55 GMT -5
apples and oranges. go back to comparing wwe with tna. at least that had some (but not much) merit to it. Apples and Wax apples. One's real and one isn't. But the base presentation is the same: Conflicts resolved in the ring. There are many differences that divide the two, sure, but for a large group of 18+ males, they’re now turning to MMA for their living vicariously through aggression needs instead of wrestling like they did in the 90's. Therein, it's competition. Anything that takes PPV dollars away, Ratings and asses out of seats is competition, whether some fake propaganda-laced press release wants to admit it or not. It might not be direct competition, but they're competition. That said, I imagine right now on an MMA board there's throngs of UFC apologists bemoaning wrestling and Brock Lesnar and selling short WWE's impact on how agressive sport is presented. (Vince did revolutionize how big arena events are presented after all). And all because they feel like somehow they’re defending the integrity of an industry they don’t even belong to because they buy so easily into propaganda and obvious hyperbole. Read between the lines.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 10, 2009 2:41:45 GMT -5
Put any current baseball, nascar, soccer, hockey, boxer other than DelaHoya, or basketball player other than Kobe and Lebron in front of me and I can't tell you who they are. If you don't follow the sport, you probably won't recognize who is in it.[/b] This right here ladies and gentleman and VictoriaTara is looking great in that signature.
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Post by Creeper The Limo Driver on Jun 10, 2009 2:59:00 GMT -5
Meccano dice. i'm not subscribing to his newsletter to help you prove your point. truthdisagreed, but well put. imo, the base presentation isnt the same. not every fight is hughes vs serra. most of the fights are random matches by guys who have no history or backstory and are just doing it just because they're paid to. it's the same foundation for every major sport. nowadays, if people are watching more mma than wwe, it's more than likely due to the fact that wwe isn't catering to their bloodlust anymore - because that's all the casual mma fan cares about. it's hard to call ufc competition when they're "stealing" an audience that wwe doesn't seem to care much about these days. maybe i'm wrong though.
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Post by Cap'n Crud on Jun 10, 2009 3:41:19 GMT -5
With the red ass beatdown WWE got with that XFL debacle and that mess in Denver you'd think WWE would learn they're just shooting themselves in the foot when they try taking on real sports.
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boolz
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Post by boolz on Jun 10, 2009 4:13:23 GMT -5
I'm a casual UFC fan, so forgive the butchering of the names that's about to follow.
I think the UFC doesn't/can't/shouldn't make real stars. I mean look at Brock as an example. They build up the big debut, and he taps. Then somehow Randy Courture vacates the title, Brock gets it in a match becoming like 1-1, then has to beat Mir for it.
Serra/Hughes was big. I know that much, but didn't Serra end up with a broken neck or serious injury then have to sit out what seemed like forever.
Tito/Shamrock could have been massive... a bunch of years ago before Tito threw his fit and left Dana while Shamrock got old. Now though it was just pathetic after the build.
That's not even touching (much) of the heavyweight division with Tim Silvia, Arlovski and I got no one else. Or the fact that really when the UFC boomed Liddel, Franklin, Hughes, and Couture all either got destroyed or seemed to retire/disapear.
I think the problem most people who say the UFC has got no stars isn't that they don't have stars because they do. Anderson Silva, Penn, and GJS are proof positive that talented fighters will draw.
The problem is talented fighters wont draw as well as talented fighters who can stay healthy and brand themselves. I was a GSP mark as soon as I heard that damn Canadian say he didn't respect Matt Hughes ability. Then beat him.
The problem is where as it's exciting, it's to unpredictable. It's boxing in the late 80's and everyone knows Tyson/Douglas is coming up. The UFC is banging out huge numbers, TUF helps give the fighters personality, but how long can they keep this pace with a bunch of reality stars?
That, and I still say whenever an undercard fight is decided by the fighters but the uppercard/championships are left to the judges it's more fixed than not. Griffin/Tito as an example.
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Post by FrankGotch on Jun 10, 2009 4:43:46 GMT -5
Fact WWE is taking pot shots at UFC because MMA is about 200x more popular right now then wrestling is with the 15-30 male demo. Wrestling has take a huge hit from the popularity of MMA and chances are that as UFC keeps growing WWE will continue to lose core groups of their audience.
Right now I would bet just about any random guy over the age of 15 could name twice as many UFC fighters then they could WWE superstars.
If you think MMA doesn't have any real stars then your blind.
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Steveweiser
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Post by Steveweiser on Jun 10, 2009 7:21:59 GMT -5
FACES Randy Couture Chuck Liddell Forrest Griffin Lyoto Machida Rich Franklin Matt Hughes Georges St. Pierre
HEELS Brock Lesnar Rashad Evans Tito Ortiz Michael Bisping (outside the UK) Yoshihiro Akiyama BJ Penn
TWEENERS Quinton "Rampage" Jackson Matt Serra Frank Mir
I came up with those on the top of my head. For me, they're on a par with WWE's stars, and certainly outdraw them on PPV.
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Post by minigolfhool on Jun 10, 2009 10:41:53 GMT -5
As with other people posting here MMA is nice change of pace from the usual WWE booking and having too see Triple H obliterating Orton once again. At least MMA brings up new talent all the time and unlike WWE they are always forced to do so. You can't have someone fight another guy for more than three times, even epic feuds have usually been ended after putting the same two guys into the octagon for a third time. Another thing are the breaks between fights which force MMA promotions to always have a full roster because even the champs are usually fighting "only" three times per year (which isn't a criticism at all but it's quite different from wrestling promotions which can put a guy into a dozen feuds per year if they want to). I, for one, can't wait to see this weekend's UFC PPV even though most of the names, except those in the main events, are pretty unknown to me, mostly because I love to see two guys fighting and beating themselves up over dramatic reasons. That's why I started to watch wrestling in the first place and that's why I got into MMA as well a few months ago. No matter if it's between Bret and Owen way back in the 90ies when I watched them in the big blue cage or if it's between Silva and Franklin on Saturday and the question which one of those two will perhaps rise to the top again. As for the undercard being not important because the names being "unknown": If this would have been the case then I'd never started watching ROH in the first place. I mean... Honestly? Most of the guys in this promotion seem to be rather bland in the first place but as long as the wrestling is top notch I can't care less about someone not having tons of pyros exploding while he's wearing rainbow colored costumes.
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