Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,062
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Post by Mecca on Jun 29, 2009 23:21:47 GMT -5
Just a random thought I'm throwing out there, do with it what thy will... But I was wondering, does anyone think that's just Triple H's way of wrestling? Like, he does it unconsciously? I mean, take certain actors, for instance. They have a way of presenting themselves in a movie or TV show as the SAME CHARACTER, every time, no matter what the story. Michael Cera is the same guy in every movie. Love him to death, but it's like ... he's the same in EVERY MOVIE. Sarah Silverman, too. These are only two that I can think of right now to drive the point home, so I hope people can follow me here. But anyway, what I'm getting at is, what if that's just how Triple H wrestles? That he's not REALLY thinking too hard about, "Oh, I'm totally not gonna sell this guy's move, 'cause I'm hardcore." What if that's legitimately how he functions, not really thinking too deeply into what his reaction - or lack thereof - may be presenting? Far-fetched, I know, and some may think I'm just reaching for a defense here. I know that Triple H is pretty engrossed in the business, he probably considers it an art form that is to be perfected or something poetical like that, but ... eh, like I said, it's just a thought. Maybe he wasn't really thinking about the match, and was just going through the motions. Well if that's his way of wrestling he needs to go back to wrestling school, but I don't buy that, he had a guy named Foley go out of his way to get him over so he watched that first hand...he himself went out of his way for Batista.. This is a guy who basically does not go out of his way to make any one look good unless he basically has to.
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
Posts: 15,785
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Post by The OP on Jun 29, 2009 23:23:13 GMT -5
Yeah, it was just weird. They need to make up their minds about whether or not they're pushing MVP too, that's another thing.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,062
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Post by Mecca on Jun 29, 2009 23:23:21 GMT -5
I was mad tonight while I was watching that MVP vs Triple H match. And the reason why? Because I predicted EXACTLY HOW IT WOULD END. Sure, at some points I was hoping to be proven wrong, but alas no such luck. I even was able to pinpoint the exact time at which MVP was going to get pedigreed... and it really pissed me off. Not to mention Triple H was barely selling his leg at all. Way to make that offense look effective. If Cena, a younger guy, can put over Miz so well like that, then why can't Triple H at least make MVP out to be at least some semblance of a threat? I'm not saying MVP has to win or anything like that, but you shouldn't make him look like such a non factor. Especially not in what's supposed to be a SEMI FINAL match. But again, I shouldn't say I'm surprised. H was sitting in the back during the show saying "I can't believe these established stars are giving these midcarders so much offense...dumbasses"
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BK From WV
Hank Scorpio
Claims to have sense of humor, probably stole it
I'm Here
Posts: 5,610
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Post by BK From WV on Jun 29, 2009 23:24:51 GMT -5
I was mad tonight while I was watching that MVP vs Triple H match. And the reason why? Because I predicted EXACTLY HOW IT WOULD END. Sure, at some points I was hoping to be proven wrong, but alas no such luck. I even was able to pinpoint the exact time at which MVP was going to get pedigreed... and it really pissed me off. Not to mention Triple H was barely selling his leg at all. Way to make that offense look effective. If Cena, a younger guy, can put over Miz so well like that, then why can't Triple H at least make MVP out to be at least some semblance of a threat? I'm not saying MVP has to win or anything like that, but you shouldn't make him look like such a non factor. Especially not in what's supposed to be a SEMI FINAL match. But again, I shouldn't say I'm surprised. The thing is I still don't see the difference. Miz dominates Cena and then Cena gets 3 or 4 moves in at the end of the match and gets up like he was never hurt saluting to the crowd and celebrating at the top of the ramp. The only difference I see is Hunter got one move in at the end of the match as opposed to the 3 or 4 that Cena got. Maybe because the Miz/Cena match lasted longer. MVP dominated most of the match like Miz did and they both lost in quick fashion at the end. I'm not saying either is right. I just don't see the difference in the two.
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The OP
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
changed his name
Posts: 15,785
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Post by The OP on Jun 29, 2009 23:26:28 GMT -5
For me it's that the other matches flowed better. The playmaker reversed into a Pedigree just looked bad, plain and simple. A guy with Triple H's experience should've been able to come up with a better finish.
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Post by rrm15 on Jun 29, 2009 23:26:54 GMT -5
Just a random thought I'm throwing out there, do with it what thy will... But I was wondering, does anyone think that's just Triple H's way of wrestling? Like, he does it unconsciously? I mean, take certain actors, for instance. They have a way of presenting themselves in a movie or TV show as the SAME CHARACTER, every time, no matter what the story. Michael Cera is the same guy in every movie. Love him to death, but it's like ... he's the same in EVERY MOVIE. Sarah Silverman, too. These are only two that I can think of right now to drive the point home, so I hope people can follow me here. But anyway, what I'm getting at is, what if that's just how Triple H wrestles? That he's not REALLY thinking too hard about, "Oh, I'm totally not gonna sell this guy's move, 'cause I'm hardcore." What if that's legitimately how he functions, not really thinking too deeply into what his reaction - or lack thereof - may be presenting? Far-fetched, I know, and some may think I'm just reaching for a defense here. I know that Triple H is pretty engrossed in the business, he probably considers it an art form that is to be perfected or something poetical like that, but ... eh, like I said, it's just a thought. Maybe he wasn't really thinking about the match, and was just going through the motions. I see where you're coming from in the sense that I don't think Triple H wakes up in the morning and says "I think I'll tell Vince to let me bury MVP tonight." I think he tells himself that by being in the ring with him, guys like MVP benefit no matter what the outcome. Then once they fizzle out after Triple H is done with them, he thinks its on them.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 29, 2009 23:26:59 GMT -5
Psychology. Plain and Simple.
Triple H entered the ring with tape around his leg. His leg was worked over during the match. He was selling the leg during the match. He found it hard to stand during some parts. So being as Cerebral as his character is the best thing his character can pull out of his bag of tricks is a move with high impact to his legs?
Triple H is at the top and certainly did many things to earn his spot there but something like this seems to inexperienced for a guy like him.
Busting out a Pedigree after the only offense you did consisted mostly of punches and clothesline is the equivalent of trying to hit your finisher as soon as the match starts.
Cena may have negated the beatdown Miz gave him but it was an enjoyable match. Personally I did not enjoy the Triple H/MVP match, but I believe that's due to the two of them not really having good ring chemistry with each other.
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Ragnal
Game Genie
Yanno what they say: All toasters toast El Dandy
Posts: 8,677,836
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Post by Ragnal on Jun 29, 2009 23:27:18 GMT -5
Allow me to just say I pretty much agree with everyone in this thread.
Well, save for the one that's not making good arguments for Triple H. How ya doing?
The problem with Triple H is this: He'll have been a main eventer ten years the Monday after Summerslam. He's done it all. Grand Slam, Triple Crown, both World titles, IC belt...there's nothing else for him to do at this point except make sure that the audience is given new heroes to cheer or new villains to boo.
but even though he's at that point, he refuses to do so. Rather than let someone else get a shot at the WWE title, he puts it onto himself to bring in the buyrates, even in feuds that last half a year or longer, which makes things VERY stale. Here's to hoping a Superkick in the future wakes him up to this.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Jun 29, 2009 23:29:08 GMT -5
I was mad tonight while I was watching that MVP vs Triple H match. And the reason why? Because I predicted EXACTLY HOW IT WOULD END. Sure, at some points I was hoping to be proven wrong, but alas no such luck. I even was able to pinpoint the exact time at which MVP was going to get pedigreed... and it really pissed me off. Not to mention Triple H was barely selling his leg at all. Way to make that offense look effective. If Cena, a younger guy, can put over Miz so well like that, then why can't Triple H at least make MVP out to be at least some semblance of a threat? I'm not saying MVP has to win or anything like that, but you shouldn't make him look like such a non factor. Especially not in what's supposed to be a SEMI FINAL match. But again, I shouldn't say I'm surprised. The thing is I still don't see the difference. Miz dominates Cena and then Cena gets 3 or 4 moves in at the end of the match and gets up like he was never hurt saluting to the crowd and celebrating at the top of the ramp. The only difference I see is Hunter got one move in at the end of the match as opposed to the 3 or 4 that Cena got. Maybe because the Miz/Cena match lasted longer. MVP dominated most of the match like Miz did and they both lost in quick fashion at the end. I'm not saying either is right. I just don't see the difference in the two. True, they were pretty similar, but the key factor was that unlike last night, when Cena used his Attitude Adjustment followed by the STF, this time he went with a different approach with the leg drop into the STF, presumably I guess because Miz would've predicted he'd use his usual combination. So really, Cena kind of won because he outsmarted the Miz. Triple H won because he is Triple H and pain jobs to him.
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Post by slaughterama on Jun 29, 2009 23:29:44 GMT -5
Edge, Jericho, his old buddy Shawn, they know how to win and make someone look amazing in the process. I don't subscribe to the "HHH is in the back plotting to take down everyone" theory, but he is almost indisputably at this point a very selfish worker. Or... he's just not a very good worker. Or at least not near the same league as those other guys. Half the act in the ring is making your opponent look good too. It's just not something he's good at. There are some exceptions, but for the most part his biggest flaw is that he has never been able to tell a story in the ring that makes his opponents look as good as he should. It's fine for a midcarder I guess, but with his spot on the card, and his role in the company, you think he would have really tried to step up this aspect of his game.
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Post by dimera on Jun 29, 2009 23:30:09 GMT -5
Another week, Another HHH hate thread. You people need to come up with something more creative to complain about. So people who don't like HHH are the bad guys because he sucks and won't do anything positive for the business that made him? WTF? I've been sick of this overrated piece of trash since his 2000 fans made it sound like he was much bigger than he really was but now look at the state of things..he always wins, always comes out protected, always gets a payback, doesn't look weak on the mic in the post Rock/Austin era, doesn't even do his finisher the right way anymore. Undertaker got better in his 40s while HHH is sucking on every level imaginable. It's quite sad and quite telling about how right those were who criticized him years beforehand.
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Post by SickFlipPiledriver on Jun 29, 2009 23:31:09 GMT -5
He sold through the whole damn match, and won only when MVP made a mistake after completely dominating him the entire match. Yes, he made a mistake. He held one leg over Triple H's head - a pretty awkward position where Triple H has a CLEAR leverage and positional advantage - and stood there for a good five seconds before trying his move.
Legit mistake into a counter into a Pedigree in my opinion. It didn't make MVP look bad at all, except that maybe he needs a new finisher.
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Post by skiller on Jun 29, 2009 23:32:12 GMT -5
Question: If you removed his entrance from the equation, would Triple H get as big a reaction as he does?
People always talk about how he gets the biggest reactions. But is that more to do with the guy or the whole entrance deal?
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Post by MGH on Jun 29, 2009 23:33:21 GMT -5
Question: If you removed his entrance from the equation, would Triple H get as big a reaction as he does? People always talk about how he gets the biggest reactions. But is that more to do with the guy or the whole entrance deal? A few years ago I say it's all him. Now they pop for the entrance, the spine buster, and the pedigree. Everything in between varies. He's a far cry in crowd reactions from Cena and Jeff, I'll say that much.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,062
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Post by Mecca on Jun 29, 2009 23:33:39 GMT -5
Edge, Jericho, his old buddy Shawn, they know how to win and make someone look amazing in the process. I don't subscribe to the "HHH is in the back plotting to take down everyone" theory, but he is almost indisputably at this point a very selfish worker. Or... he's just not a very good worker. Or at least not near the same league as those other guys. Half the act in the ring is making your opponent look good too. It's just not something he's good at. There are some exceptions, but for the most part his biggest flaw is that he has never been able to tell a story in the ring that makes his opponents look as good as he should. It's fine for a midcarder I guess, but with his spot on the card, and his role in the company, you think he would have really tried to step up this aspect of his game. That's been his wrestling style for a long time...he doesn't make his opponents look good because he's trying to protect himself, it's why people said he never "showed ass" for a long time. H is a 40 year old man with a spot for life yet he wrestles like he's afraid he's going to lose his spot tomorrow.
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Post by Melissalicious on Jun 29, 2009 23:34:17 GMT -5
Question: If you removed his entrance from the equation, would Triple H get as big a reaction as he does? People always talk about how he gets the biggest reactions. But is that more to do with the guy or the whole entrance deal? I've been to house shows -- they turn the bass up WICKED HIGH for his entrance, and I know that gets the crowd pumped. I can only imagine what it would be at a live RAW. That being said, I also think it's his legacy that gets reaction. Most people favor Triple H because he is familiar to them amid a sea of new faces. I know quite a few oldschool fans who simply love the guy because he's what they've always known, be him heel or face. Hell, I'm guilty of rooting for him over someone else just because of that reason.
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B.B.M
Hank Scorpio
Scavenger Hunt All-Star
Where did the Lime go?
Posts: 7,404
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Post by B.B.M on Jun 29, 2009 23:34:44 GMT -5
Another week, Another HHH hate thread. You people need to come up with something more creative to complain about. So people who don't like HHH are the bad guys because he sucks and won't do anything positive for the business that made him? 1. I mentioned nothing about everyone being bad guys, I just think people are overeacting to this match. just because we all disagree with one thing, doesn't make me think, we're going to disagree with everything else. 2. HHH has done alot of positive things for the business, is that some people don't bring to positive moments to the discussion.
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Post by Robbymac on Jun 29, 2009 23:34:49 GMT -5
He sold through the whole damn match, and won only when MVP made a mistake after completely dominating him the entire match. Yes, he made a mistake. He held one leg over Triple H's head - a pretty awkward position where Triple H has a CLEAR leverage and positional advantage - and stood there for a good five seconds before trying his move. Legit mistake into a counter into a Pedigree in my opinion. It didn't make MVP look bad at all, except that maybe he needs a new finisher. Pretty much this. It was basically a shorter version of Miz-Cena. They couldn't have made the match longer without cutting something else from a show that other than this was viewed very favorably by everyone. To read the thoughts of most on here you'd think it was a HHH squash, when in reality it was pretty much the opposite.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,062
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Post by Mecca on Jun 29, 2009 23:35:50 GMT -5
Question: If you removed his entrance from the equation, would Triple H get as big a reaction as he does? People always talk about how he gets the biggest reactions. But is that more to do with the guy or the whole entrance deal? A few years ago I say it's all him. Now they pop for the entrance, the spine buster, and the pedigree. Everything in between varies. He's a far cry in crowd reactions from Cena and Jeff, I'll say that much. He's also one of the few guys left from the boom, honestly to a newer fan Triple H is a god to they've never seen him not be a maineventer or on top. And the WWE has sold him as the best guy forever, I remember when he was a heel and they sold him as top of the line that had to be respected, no other heel gets that.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,062
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Post by Mecca on Jun 29, 2009 23:37:10 GMT -5
So people who don't like HHH are the bad guys because he sucks and won't do anything positive for the business that made him? 1. I mentioned nothing about everyone being bad guys, I just think people are overeacting to this match. just because we all disagree with one thing, doesn't make me think, we're going to disagree with everything else. 2. HHH has done alot of positive things for the business, is that some people don't bring to positive moments to the discussion. He's done positive things like putting Batista over, I think that's a great business move to give your big rub to a guy who's older than you are.
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