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Post by Deleted on Jul 14, 2009 1:45:48 GMT -5
I don't really care to be honest. As long as there is televised wrestling that I can watch I'll be happy. I really don't give a crap if it's popular or not. It dosen't have to be the hottest trend to mean something to me.
I listen to metal, while Emo is the current preferred form of rock music.
I read comic books, while crappy superhero movies are quickly replacing them.
I prefer wrestling, while most others seem to like UFC.
Why does everyone think wrestling is at it's end?People are still attending in strong numbers. Raw is doing killer ratings considering the amount of channels people have. Smackdown is doing good ratings considering it's on a pretty much dead network that half the wrestling audience dosen't get. ECW and Impact have a steady following.Pretty much everyone knows who John Cena and Triple H are.
Could the product use freshening up? Sure it could. They are using the same format for Raw and Smackdown that they've been using for 10 years. However, they are pushing newer stars and the PPVs have been pretty solid, minus the stale ass Triple H-Orton fued they insist on cramming down our throats. Hell, CM Punk is champ and people still complain.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Jul 14, 2009 1:50:42 GMT -5
It's happening to MMA. Not hard at all to see that those fans that were around for the attitude era have all drifted over to UFC etc.
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Post by jgd1 on Jul 14, 2009 2:10:35 GMT -5
It may be still yet to come slim. There's half a year left and the Trump thing just started. That and the celeb GM thing might bring in some new viewers and if the product can be good then peeps might stay around.
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Post by -Lithium- on Jul 14, 2009 2:22:14 GMT -5
Just because it happened in the 80s and 90s isnt enough. Two times isnt enough to consider it a pattern yet.
Also you gotta consider that things have changed since then. I mean back then in the late 80s and 90s, the thing for WWE eventually became "if the fans want it, you do it". Now theirs too much corruption and too many different minds (but not the fans) wanting different things. The worst being that there is WAY too much stuff being done just to satisfy Vince.
And Ill say once again, the first half of 2006 was the closest we've gotten. The shows were fresh and exciting from top to bottom (dont even try saying DX, that was right at the end), and the ratings were high...
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Post by whitecrxsses on Jul 14, 2009 9:17:28 GMT -5
It's coming.
This year.
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Post by wildojinx on Jul 14, 2009 9:47:37 GMT -5
Actually, if Benoit hadnt done what he did (as well as the injuries/suspensions) we may have seen a boom period in 2007. The Trump stuff got lots of media attention, as did k-fed, and the product, though not great, did show lots of promise.
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Full of IT.
ALF
If you wanna win............. make it a win.
Posts: 1,072
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Post by Full of IT. on Jul 14, 2009 9:50:43 GMT -5
This thread comes up just as much as the new nation.
but if I can be serious for a minute... I don't see another boom until WWE can strike gold with another intriguing character that will draw in the casuals and bring in new fans. Every boom has been based around a character that "clicked"... With Austin and The Rock you wanted to tune in every week to see what crazy hijinx they were up to and because you knew they would be gold every time they were on your T.V.
I still don't think WWE has found that yet... even if it may be right infront of their face.
I think Punk has the best chance at being that guy. I know everyone always says "look at how amazing his indy stuff is" but seriously... look at how amazing his indy stuff is. He is a natural talker and if given the ball he could spark something.
But that's just my opinion.
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Post by dynamicduo on Jul 14, 2009 11:33:14 GMT -5
It was on the cusp in 2007 but Benoit killed it. They had just come off a great Wrestlemania, Trump got them a lot of attention, the product was good. Te Vince limo angle had people talking. Then Benoit did what he did and killed it.
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bob
Salacious Crumb
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 78,486
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Post by bob on Jul 14, 2009 12:11:21 GMT -5
not gonna happen
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Post by Slingshot Suplay on Jul 14, 2009 12:19:11 GMT -5
Mark Henry will lead us all through the next boom period.
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theryno665
Grimlock
wants a title underneath the stars
Kinda Homeless
Posts: 13,571
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Post by theryno665 on Jul 14, 2009 20:11:46 GMT -5
I don't really care to be honest. As long as there is televised wrestling that I can watch I'll be happy. I really don't give a crap if it's popular or not. It dosen't have to be the hottest trend to mean something to me. I listen to metal, while Emo is the current preferred form of rock music. I read comic books, while crappy superhero movies are quickly replacing them. I prefer wrestling, while most others seem to like UFC. Why does everyone think wrestling is at it's end?People are still attending in strong numbers. Raw is doing killer ratings considering the amount of channels people have. Smackdown is doing good ratings considering it's on a pretty much dead network that half the wrestling audience dosen't get. ECW and Impact have a steady following.Pretty much everyone knows who John Cena and Triple H are. Could the product use freshening up? Sure it could. They are using the same format for Raw and Smackdown that they've been using for 10 years. However, they are pushing newer stars and the PPVs have been pretty solid, minus the stale ass Triple H-Orton fued they insist on cramming down our throats. Hell, CM Punk is champ and people still complain. When I started this thread, I didn't mean it as a way to say that the wrestling business is dying. But I'm just trying to figure out what this decade will be remembered for, even for a relative non-wrestling watcher. For the 80's, it's Hogan. For the '90's, it's Austin, The Rock and probably nWo. For 00's, I hate to say it but it'll probably be Benoit if it's not Cena. For some reason, I think wrestling could have hit a huge boom a few years back during the ECW resurgence. And I'm not saying this as some sort of ECW loyalist, but I'm saying this as a fan who really got back into the product after taking a break from it. ECW had that whole "I can't believe they're actually going through with this" aura, Edge was getting a major push, Cena was getting a reaction wherever he went (however bad it may have been) and though I personally wasn't a huge fan of the DX reunion, a lot of people loved it. It seemed like there was so much there that fans could pick up on but it just kinda died back down again just because the WWE couldn't continue the momentum. Not to say that the current product is bad, which it isn't, but there's nothing that really grabs people that aren't already watching on a regular basis. And when your demographic is teen-to-young-adult males and your competition is guys legit beating the crap out of each other, you need to do whatever you can to get those fans back. While the whole "Guest Celebrity GM" thing may be an idea, it feels more like another attempt to pry the WWE into mainstream Hollywood instead of a way for Vince to get fans that will stick with him for a few years. UFC is doing a great job at the latter. By the way, am I the only guy around who's NOT into UFC? I mean, I respect the fighters and the techniques and all. I just can't get into it.
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Post by wildojinx on Jul 14, 2009 20:15:44 GMT -5
[. By the way, am I the only guy around who's NOT into UFC? I mean, I respect the fighters and the techniques and all. I just can't get into it. Nah, i dont much like it either. Whats appealing about wrestling is the "human comic book" element (and considering how expensive actual comics are getting, wrestling is a reasonable alternative) and "real" sports dont have that.
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Post by The_Punisher on Jul 14, 2009 20:16:55 GMT -5
I don't really care to be honest. As long as there is televised wrestling that I can watch I'll be happy. I really don't give a crap if it's popular or not. It dosen't have to be the hottest trend to mean something to me. I listen to metal, while Emo is the current preferred form of rock music. I read comic books, while crappy superhero movies are quickly replacing them. I prefer wrestling, while most others seem to like UFC. Why does everyone think wrestling is at it's end?People are still attending in strong numbers. Raw is doing killer ratings considering the amount of channels people have. Smackdown is doing good ratings considering it's on a pretty much dead network that half the wrestling audience dosen't get. ECW and Impact have a steady following.Pretty much everyone knows who John Cena and Triple H are. Could the product use freshening up? Sure it could. They are using the same format for Raw and Smackdown that they've been using for 10 years. However, they are pushing newer stars and the PPVs have been pretty solid, minus the stale ass Triple H-Orton fued they insist on cramming down our throats. Hell, CM Punk is champ and people still complain. When I started this thread, I didn't mean it as a way to say that the wrestling business is dying. But I'm just trying to figure out what this decade will be remembered for, even for a relative non-wrestling watcher. For the 80's, it's Hogan. For the '90's, it's Austin, The Rock and probably nWo. For 00's, I hate to say it but it'll probably be Benoit if it's not Cena. For some reason, I think wrestling could have hit a huge boom a few years back during the ECW resurgence. And I'm not saying this as some sort of ECW loyalist, but I'm saying this as a fan who really got back into the product after taking a break from it. ECW had that whole "I can't believe they're actually going through with this" aura, Edge was getting a major push, Cena was getting a reaction wherever he went (however bad it may have been) and though I personally wasn't a huge fan of the DX reunion, a lot of people loved it. It seemed like there was so much there that fans could pick up on but it just kinda died back down again just because the WWE couldn't continue the momentum. Not to say that the current product is bad, which it isn't, but there's nothing that really grabs people that aren't already watching on a regular basis. And when your demographic is teen-to-young-adult males and your competition is guys legit beating the crap out of each other, you need to do whatever you can to get those fans back. While the whole "Guest Celebrity GM" thing may be an idea, it feels more like another attempt to pry the WWE into mainstream Hollywood instead of a way for Vince to get fans that will stick with him for a few years. UFC is doing a great job at the latter. By the way, am I the only guy around who's NOT into UFC? I mean, I respect the fighters and the techniques and all. I just can't get into it. I like it for what it is, I'm just amused by everyone jumping on the bandwagon like a bunch of carpetbaggers, if only because they are ashamed that wrestling is worked. But heres the thing. Even though you watch UFC and take pleasure in it, in the back of your mind theres the feeling that all wrestling fans get. That feeling that something is missing. Lesnar tried to synthesize the feeling by heeling it up, but it still won't work. Theres a line UFC won't cross, so thus that "feeling" won't be solved.
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Post by wildojinx on Jul 14, 2009 20:20:04 GMT -5
OTOH, Do we really want a boom period? While it'll be great to see people talking about wrestling in public again, they'll be plenty of bandwagon fans who only jump on because its popular, have no respect for legends of the past, care more about mic skills/skits than the actual wrestling itself, and quit once it gets uncool again.
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Post by The_Punisher on Jul 14, 2009 20:22:24 GMT -5
OTOH, Do we really want a boom period? While it'll be great to see people talking about wrestling in public again, they'll be plenty of bandwagon fans who only jump on because its popular, have no respect for legends of the past, care more about mic skills/skits than the actual wrestling itself, and quit once it gets uncool again. Like carpetbaggers. It's been said those people who gave the WWE 4.8s and 5.4s were casual fans, I disagree, I tend to think the casual fans are the ones who go to the arenas for the shows. Those are the marks. Television fans are a completely different breed.
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Post by sunwukong on Jul 14, 2009 20:22:44 GMT -5
Not trying to beat a dead horse, but I must agree with everyone that MMA is receiving the "boom" this go round.
While UFC is undoubtedly gaining popularity like crazy, another indicator is the fact that just about any city of any size has one or two minor MMA promotions that locals participate in (hell, my hometown even has one that puts on a few shows a year, and it's about as one horse they come). Remember back in the 90's when all these fly by night indie and backyard leagues started popping up? Same thing is happening with MMA right now.
Now, where things get interesting is...does MMA (and UFC, which is the WWE of MMA in terms of brand name recognition) turn this boom into a long term success, or do they lose steam? I think it's unquestionably here to stay, but I do see a "fad" element to some of it's popularity, which is what happens during boom periods. We'll see.
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Post by The_Punisher on Jul 14, 2009 20:24:52 GMT -5
Not trying to beat a dead horse, but I must agree with everyone that MMA is receiving the "boom" this go round. While UFC is undoubtedly gaining popularity like crazy, another indicator is the fact that just about any city of any size has one or two minor MMA promotions that locals participate in (hell, my hometown even has one that puts on a few shows a year, and it's about as one horse they come). Remember back in the 90's when all these fly by night indie and backyard leagues started popping up? Same thing is happening with MMA right now. Now, where things get interesting is...does MMA (and UFC, which is the WWE of MMA in terms of brand name recognition) turn this boom into a long term success, or do they lose steam? I think it's unquestionably here to stay, but I do see a "fad" element to some of it's popularity, which is what happens during boom periods. We'll see. Our maybe we are the dinosaurs who said that television would be a fad. Our objectivity is being clouded by passion for professional wrestling and fear of being uncool and being left behind. I'm going to try and be objective.
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Post by sunwukong on Jul 14, 2009 20:29:23 GMT -5
Not trying to beat a dead horse, but I must agree with everyone that MMA is receiving the "boom" this go round. While UFC is undoubtedly gaining popularity like crazy, another indicator is the fact that just about any city of any size has one or two minor MMA promotions that locals participate in (hell, my hometown even has one that puts on a few shows a year, and it's about as one horse they come). Remember back in the 90's when all these fly by night indie and backyard leagues started popping up? Same thing is happening with MMA right now. Now, where things get interesting is...does MMA (and UFC, which is the WWE of MMA in terms of brand name recognition) turn this boom into a long term success, or do they lose steam? I think it's unquestionably here to stay, but I do see a "fad" element to some of it's popularity, which is what happens during boom periods. We'll see. Our maybe we are the dinosaurs who said that television would be a fad. Our objectivity is being clouded by passion for professional wrestling and fear of being uncool and being left behind. I'm going to try and be objective. Well, I don't think it's a fad in the traditional sense of the world. Like I said, I think it's here to stay. I think it's more entertaining and viable than boxing, and that certainly wasn't a fad. When I'm talking about a fad, I think I'm speaking more about the fever pitch of things as they stand right now. That heat isn't going to be sustained forever. At a certain point a saturation point is reached. I just wonder what happens to MMA when that happens. I think UFC, barring something insane, is probably golden for the future. But the smaller companies may very well suffer when things start to cool down.
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Post by The_Punisher on Jul 14, 2009 20:33:55 GMT -5
Our maybe we are the dinosaurs who said that television would be a fad. Our objectivity is being clouded by passion for professional wrestling and fear of being uncool and being left behind. I'm going to try and be objective. Well, I don't think it's a fad in the traditional sense of the world. Like I said, I think it's here to stay. I think it's more entertaining and viable than boxing, and that certainly wasn't a fad. When I'm talking about a fad, I think I'm speaking more about the fever pitch of things as they stand right now. That heat isn't going to be sustained forever. At a certain point a saturation point is reached. I just wonder what happens to MMA when that happens. I think UFC, barring something insane, is probably golden for the future. But the smaller companies may very well suffer when things start to cool down. What annoys me though is using pro wrestling terms, which originated from carny slang, like "heel". It's stupid. It implies that UFC is worked. Or maybe those that use it wish it WAS worked, going back to the factor that these carpetbaggers can't get from UFC and only from pro wrestling.
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Post by sunwukong on Jul 14, 2009 20:42:40 GMT -5
Well, I don't think it's a fad in the traditional sense of the world. Like I said, I think it's here to stay. I think it's more entertaining and viable than boxing, and that certainly wasn't a fad. When I'm talking about a fad, I think I'm speaking more about the fever pitch of things as they stand right now. That heat isn't going to be sustained forever. At a certain point a saturation point is reached. I just wonder what happens to MMA when that happens. I think UFC, barring something insane, is probably golden for the future. But the smaller companies may very well suffer when things start to cool down. What annoys me though is using pro wrestling terms, which originated from carny slang, like "heel". It's stupid. It implies that UFC is worked. Or maybe those that use it wish it WAS worked, going back to the factor that these carpetbaggers can't get from UFC and only from pro wrestling. If you read the comments section of 411mania (dangerous, I know...) you see lots of accusations that UFC is worked. It's sort of pathetic.
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