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Post by Solid Stryk-Dizzle on Aug 11, 2009 15:26:59 GMT -5
Doesn't stop the Cena/Batista hate. Do those people give reasons for why they have those opinions? Most of the time? No. It's just "I want Cena to retire. No Talent." "I want Batista to never come back from injury! He's useless!"
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Post by Bubble Lead on Aug 11, 2009 15:27:04 GMT -5
Unless the guy is out there botching left and right, or getting no reaction at all, I cannot see how you could say he is useless or has no ability. Doesn't stop the Cena/Batista hate. I am not saying that is warranted either..
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Aug 11, 2009 15:30:43 GMT -5
Well I always give reason for my view so I generally expect the same in return...
If people do that I wonder how they last because I've been warned for far less.
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Post by parder on Aug 11, 2009 15:45:36 GMT -5
Do those people give reasons for why they have those opinions? Most of the time? No. It's just "I want Cena to retire. No Talent." "I want Batista to never come back from injury! He's useless!" Unless you're talking about other forums I'm gonna have to call strawman on that one. That kind of criticism for Cena and Batista has been pretty rare during my time reading and contributing to WWE Current. And with the KOoS vs. Bourne thing, I could make a whole bunch of points about how the crowd reacts when they see what he can do, his great selling, and psychology alongside all the high flying, and how the booking on Raw fails a lot of young guys, and not just Bourne. But there's really no point. His hated is so blind I don't think anything could change his mind. And I've gotta agree with MGH that he's called other posters out for doing exactly the same thing to wrestlers he likes, such as Punk and John Morrison.
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Post by eJm on Aug 11, 2009 16:25:27 GMT -5
Wow...I leave my thread for a couple of hours...
Ok, let's get this out of the way first...
Unreasonable 'hate' is unwarrented whoever it is. HHH, Kelly Kelly, Cena, next door's pet Dog, whoever it is. I have never liked it and just like others, I back up my dislike for someone even if others do not agree with it.
Now onto the topic at hand,
As I keep saying, why does he have to be in matches with Swaggar every week? I accepted the rematch last week because it made sense, and Swaggar won. So what was the point of this week's match? Plenty of midcarders avaliable for Swaggar to beat then have MVP cut a promo on, it just seemed pointless to me.
And yes, that match wasn't 'OMG! BERRIEZ!' but I never said he's getting buried. He's getting lost. My issue, and something I have said from the beginning, is the WWE's lack of showcasing what they hype. Don't say this guy has great high flying ability if you aren't going to showcase it. Don't say that Bourne is quick as a cat if the only times people are going to see it are rollups and counters.
Look at the match with Orton. Dude did the same moves he did regually on ECW which got him over in the first place. That was the reason they were rooting for him and, probably, the reason they moved him to the A Show. You have him there, put him with someone like him and watch the fireworks go off and the crowd's faces light up. Losing to Swaggar twice in a row does nothing to do that.
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Post by The Genesis of KoOS on Aug 11, 2009 16:52:09 GMT -5
Most of the time? No. It's just "I want Cena to retire. No Talent." "I want Batista to never come back from injury! He's useless!" Unless you're talking about other forums I'm gonna have to call strawman on that one. That kind of criticism for Cena and Batista has been pretty rare during my time reading and contributing to WWE Current. And with the KOoS vs. Bourne thing, I could make a whole bunch of points about how the crowd reacts when they see what he can do, his great selling, and psychology alongside all the high flying, and how the booking on Raw fails a lot of young guys, and not just Bourne. But there's really no point. His hated is so blind I don't think anything could change his mind. And I've gotta agree with MGH that he's called other posters out for doing exactly the same thing to wrestlers he likes, such as Punk and John Morrison. It's not blind, like I said. I never liked him dating back to like 2004 or so. Hell, I don't generally jump down people's throats over someone they don't like. In fact I tend to stay away from hate threads like the ones Triple H gets and I'm a big fan of his. I know one person in particular that hates Morrison and let's his opinions heard almost non-stop and I usually don't say anything in that regard.
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Post by The Genesis of KoOS on Aug 11, 2009 16:54:49 GMT -5
Why does he have to explain himself to you? Oh well great lets all have nonsensical opinions with no backing. I bet if someone started a threat with the line "Triple H is useless" that would get a great reaction. It's fine to have an opinion but um shouldn't you have a reason for that opinion? I've stated numerous times why I don't like him. Do I have to tack on a FAQs sheet to my signature providing reasons why I don't like certain wrestlers? If I said The Great Khali sucks, would you be on me like you are now?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2009 16:58:31 GMT -5
Anytime you have someone as tiny as Bourne in E land, there's a potential disaster. Look at Rey; he's one of the only little guys to make much of an impact in recent memory......and some of his matches totally suck. You know why? Some of these behemoths cannot sell him. Hell, the mere fact some of these guys are so big completely kill his match options. What you're left with is some nonsense that looks completely ridiculous. This is Bourne's legacy: To do a bunch of flips and occasionally upset some uncoordinated monster to the tune of some ohs and ahs, and some mild face pops. He's a less over 1-2-3 Kid. Will he ever get more? That's on him. He has to take a ball and run with it. That, or you have to trust them to manage their personnel properly.
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AriadosMan
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Your friendly neighborhood superhero
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Post by AriadosMan on Aug 11, 2009 16:58:40 GMT -5
So, the "I hate midcarder" train has moved on from Brian Kendrick to Evan Bourne. Great job folks. ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png)
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Post by Bubble Lead on Aug 11, 2009 17:01:21 GMT -5
Oh well great lets all have nonsensical opinions with no backing. I bet if someone started a threat with the line "Triple H is useless" that would get a great reaction. It's fine to have an opinion but um shouldn't you have a reason for that opinion? I've stated numerous times why I don't like him. Do I have to tack on a FAQs sheet to my signature providing reasons why I don't like certain wrestlers? If I said The Great Khali sucks, would you be on me like you are now? I dont think anyone is really on you. Just asking you to explain why you think Bourne is a waste of space, and why you think he doesn't have any talent. From what I have seen of his WWE matches, they have pretty good psychology and he sells well. He isn't just out there throwing out random flips and no selling stuff ala Teddy Hart.
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Post by eJm on Aug 11, 2009 17:01:30 GMT -5
Ok, I'm confused here.
Am I the bad guy or has this whole thing just gone to pot when I'm not here?
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Post by The Genesis of KoOS on Aug 11, 2009 17:01:58 GMT -5
So, the "I hate midcarder" train has moved on from Brian Kendrick to Evan Bourne. Great job folks. ![::)](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/eyesroll.png) Let's see...I like... Kofi MVP Swagger Tyson Kidd DH Smith Carlito Primo Shelton Ryder etc. Yup. Just because I don't like Bourne, I *must* hate midcarders.
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Aug 11, 2009 17:03:04 GMT -5
There aren't a ton of people Evan Bourne can realistically beat on RAW. He honestly should've been sent to SmackDown!. He could do wonders with guys like Morrison, Kidd, Mysterio, Punk, & the Hardyz. On RAW, he'll simply be used exactly as he has been.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Aug 11, 2009 17:03:07 GMT -5
Oh well great lets all have nonsensical opinions with no backing. I bet if someone started a threat with the line "Triple H is useless" that would get a great reaction. It's fine to have an opinion but um shouldn't you have a reason for that opinion? I've stated numerous times why I don't like him. Do I have to tack on a FAQs sheet to my signature providing reasons why I don't like certain wrestlers? If I said The Great Khali sucks, would you be on me like you are now? Nah I'd just assume he didn't pick you for the kiss cam.
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Post by The Genesis of KoOS on Aug 11, 2009 17:08:02 GMT -5
I've stated numerous times why I don't like him. Do I have to tack on a FAQs sheet to my signature providing reasons why I don't like certain wrestlers? If I said The Great Khali sucks, would you be on me like you are now? I dont think anyone is really on you. Just asking you to explain why you think Bourne is a waste of space, and why you think he doesn't have any talent. From what I have seen of his WWE matches, they have pretty good psychology and he sells well. He isn't just out there throwing out random flips and no selling stuff ala Teddy Hart. No, Teddy Hart is just plain bad. Bourne is just...there. He looks about as threatening as Funaki with less charisma. He has no redeeming qualities that make him stand out, especially on a show that has a mega popular and more atheltic Kofi Kingston.
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Post by parder on Aug 11, 2009 17:15:26 GMT -5
Oh well great lets all have nonsensical opinions with no backing. I bet if someone started a threat with the line "Triple H is useless" that would get a great reaction. It's fine to have an opinion but um shouldn't you have a reason for that opinion? I've stated numerous times why I don't like him. Do I have to tack on a FAQs sheet to my signature providing reasons why I don't like certain wrestlers? If I said The Great Khali sucks, would you be on me like you are now? Sorry for not remembering if you have, but I don't recall much substantive coming out about why all the negative posts. With the Khali point, it depends what you mean by that. If you said he sucks as a technical wrestler I'd find it hard to argue with you. But if it's just he sucks in general in making his living from professional wrestling I'd probably disagree. Granted a lot of his upside comes from genetics, but that's no reason why you shouldn't exploit it to make money out of the guy. Not to mention that he has a certain charismatic presence, and his Indian heritage gives WWE access to a market that has over 1 billion citizens. To me pro wrestling is all about utilising what different people offer to the kind of promotion you want to market to the public. WWE has always been at its best when it offers something for everyone. So there is probably no better promotion in the world to showcase the likes of Khali and Hornswoggle, alongside an Evan Bourne or a Tyson Kidd, as well as John Cena or Dave Batista. The only proviso being that what they offer is utilised in the best way possible. Only then are you likely to produce the most entertaining product, and from there make the most money you can.
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Ragnal
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Post by Ragnal on Aug 11, 2009 18:04:46 GMT -5
Ok, I'm confused here. Am I the bad guy or has this whole thing just gone to pot when I'm not here? I'd say the heat's been shifted off of you.
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Aug 11, 2009 18:07:29 GMT -5
They're trying to build Swagger which makes more sense than building Bourne. Bourne is going to have to always play the underdog because of his size, a win will always seem like "overcoming the odds". Swagger has to look like a bully and a prick and I think the short program with Bourne helped that a lot.
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Post by eJm on Aug 11, 2009 18:08:36 GMT -5
Ok, I'm confused here. Am I the bad guy or has this whole thing just gone to pot when I'm not here? I'd say the heat's been shifted off of you. Sweet! They're trying to build Swagger which makes more sense than building Bourne. Bourne is going to have to always play the underdog because of his size, a win will always seem like "overcoming the odds". Swagger has to look like a bully and a prick and I think the short program with Bourne helped that a lot. But he's beaten Bourne. He beat him last week and basically proved it, which I have no problem with. He didn't need to face him again, especially with MVP on his tail now. That was my problem.
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Mac
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Post by Mac on Aug 11, 2009 18:13:27 GMT -5
I'd say the heat's been shifted off of you. Sweet! They're trying to build Swagger which makes more sense than building Bourne. Bourne is going to have to always play the underdog because of his size, a win will always seem like "overcoming the odds". Swagger has to look like a bully and a prick and I think the short program with Bourne helped that a lot. But he's beaten Bourne. He beat him last week and basically proved it, which I have no problem with. He didn't need to face him again, especially with MVP on his tail now. That was my problem. Well he needs to beat someone right? Why not a guy who hes 1-1 against rather than just putting him in a random match? I mean when someone wins a wrestling match someone else loses. I dont think this is Bourne's swan song and hes the type of guy who I dont think losing a string of matches would really kill.
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