barley96
Dennis Stamp
This is the biggest Mickie James mark
Posts: 4,170
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Post by barley96 on Aug 11, 2009 22:40:18 GMT -5
I have heard about this for two weeks, and nothing indicates a change, unless HBK coming back is a change. If Vince McMahon is really upset with creative, make like Dixie Carter and fire half of the creative staff. The poll is missing a third category, both.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2009 23:17:29 GMT -5
Problem is, I don't think Rock or Austin would get a second chance in the current environment. They'd just get dumped, people on Wrestlecrap would go "hooray", and the company would eventually go bankrupt. In todays landscape of wrestling the Rock would have been Rocky Maivia for 2 weeks then future endeavored. Fixed
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Aug 11, 2009 23:38:44 GMT -5
Gotta side with the whole letting wrestler's deviate from the script thing BUT I say no more scripted promos period. I mean would the WWF have been the same in the 80's if the same 7 or 8 guys all wrote Diabiase,Hogan,The Ultimate Warrior,and Randy Savage's interviews for them? I guarantee that for all the guys you list, you wouldn't have been able to tell. With those guys, it was the delivery that mattered, not the lines. Hell, half the time Savage and Warrior weren't making any damn sense at all, and Hogan and Dibiase pretty much just had cliche factories for mouths. scripts are good, people. Writers are good. The problem is that half of the people involved are TV people and the other half of the people involved are old-time wrestling people, and they have lost the ability to reconcile those two things. Frankly, it's the "wrestling" attitude that needs to die, if you ask me. Wrestling is acting, period. Raw is a TV show, period. Drop house shows, stop caring who live crowds boo and cheer (as opposed to who TV audiences watch), drop the contracted worker thing and let the guys join SAG, and focus your efforts on making three good TV shows where everyone's involved in plotlines, like any other TV show (except it's all got pretending to fight in it all the time). Now, I realize I just said "Drop every horrible thing that makes Vince McMahon money, and you'll have a good TV show," so it'll never happen. But it'd work.
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Chainsaw
T
A very BAD man.
It is what it is
Posts: 90,480
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Post by Chainsaw on Aug 11, 2009 23:40:39 GMT -5
Smarkbait. Who actually goes around screaming "WHY CAN'T WE CREATE NEW STARS?!?!" like he's f'n Calculon?
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Post by Real Folk Bruce on Aug 12, 2009 0:03:17 GMT -5
Jim Cornette was right. Wrestling is truly the only business where the fans know more about the product then the folks who put it on.
What I would like to see them do is have the bookers (Never say writers!) sets up feuds and matches, and everything else is left to the wrestlers. What they will say in their promos, what they do in their match, what moves they will use, that should ALL be left to the wrestlers.
Nowadays, everything from the characters to the matches to the show itself feels so contrived and pre-packaged, the show itself is about as organic as a pack of Twinkies.
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Post by odysseus on Aug 12, 2009 1:05:01 GMT -5
God awful writing, idiotic decisions to bury people during pushes, and pushing people too the top while they weren't nearly ready didn't help.
Seriously, pushing people to the top a year into their career isn't helping. Their progression should be slow building. That way people can put their emotions behind them. Once their emotionally involved in a character, then they make their slow ascension to the top. How are we supposed to like someone who wins a title right away, then fades into obscurity? Why should we care about them?
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Post by corndog on Aug 12, 2009 2:00:26 GMT -5
It's like WCW of the late 90's: Except that I don't see them going under soon and TNA picking them up like that. Contrary to popular belief WCW in the late 90s did create stars and actually established characters, Chris Jericho's Y2J character was started in his heel character in WCW, same with Guerrero, Benoit, Booker T and DDP(well actually the last two had better characters in WCW). The problem with late 90s WCW was none of them could get past Goldberg,Hogan or Nash. But unlike the WWF, WCW used them well in the mid-card giving them titles, fueds(with actual continuity and purpose), mic time, and they kept them away from getting beaten down by Hogan and Nash. Now if you are climbing up the card you either get fed to HHH, or get booked so badly that people stop caring about them. Also WCW made their lower titles(tv, cruiser, US, and tag titles) actually mean something with meaningful feuds, regular ppv defenses, involving established stars with the young guys and great divisions. The problem with WCW from 96-99 was that the main event scene got clogged up with over the hill wrestlers and politics leading to bad booking decisions. It also led to alot of the younger stars that were built to be the future of the company to leaving because they were sick of waiting for Hogan and Nash to get out of the way to make room for them when they knew they could go to the WWF which was more successful and actually get to the main event scene rather quickly. Recently I have rewatched Nitros from that era and they were leaps and bounds beyond where Raw is at right now.
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spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
Posts: 5,649
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Post by spagett on Aug 12, 2009 6:32:52 GMT -5
In todays landscape of wrestling the Rock would have been Rocky Maivia for 2 weeks then future endeavored. Fixed And then after being Fired we would have a thread on here with people saying Rocky Maivia was only a mid carder anyway and that they were glad he was gone as it frees up more time for the real stars like Triple H and Orton.
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Post by willywonka666 on Aug 12, 2009 8:40:26 GMT -5
Well, not in charge, but at least let them deviate from the script. Vince seems even more controlling than he used to. I'm with you on this. The best superstars had elements of themselves in their characters. Sometimes I wonder, though: is it the writers having too much control, or the wrestlers too afraid to be themselves? WWE is such a different beast than it used to be. And yes I realize this is probably NEWZ but it's an interesting topic nonetheless. I remember in the last few years of ECW, Hogan said in an interview that noone wants to stand up and take the torch from him, and while it may sound like he's bragging, I think he had a point. A lot of wrestlers are like wallflowers, they love what they do, and work hard, but they don't run that extra mile, and think about what else they could do to push them up that mountain, and management sees that. Hogan,Piper, Austin-all the big names I believe were constantly living and breathing the business, and some others were there for the cash and didn't really contribute much else. I think there's a ton of money to be made in wrestling, but even more so if you put in something extra
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Post by Captain Spaulding on Aug 12, 2009 9:15:19 GMT -5
Creative has been stinkin up the joint for a while now.
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Zen411
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,746
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Post by Zen411 on Aug 12, 2009 9:25:49 GMT -5
Trying too had to get non wrestlers like Seth Green and Jeremy Piven over every week while taking away time for actual stars to get themselves over.
Firing guys like Mr Kennedy and Umaga.
Possibly letting Jeff Hardy slip through the cracks again.
Not taking risks.
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Post by Back to being Cenanuff on Aug 12, 2009 9:42:16 GMT -5
I think the problem is that there's too much of everything. Too much exposure, too many PPVs, too many sponsors, too many backstage segments that go nowhere. Here's what I say they do:
Reduce the number of PPVs to 8 a year. This will give the bookers/writers a chance to build feuds in the midcard and give every match a big match feel. This will also be helped by having more actual wrestling on the shows, even if it's by one match a week. That would mean dropping some backstage segments, which is perfectly fine.
I used to really like it when wrestlers would cut promos immediately before going out to the ring. And not just the box in the corner, I'm talking an actual promo with an interviewer. It gave us a snapshot of the guy we were about to see.
Women's division: either give us models that show up as valets and managers, or give us thicker women that can go in the ring. No more of this in-between crap. I'm sick to death of hearing "she's getting better".
Get rid of Hornswoggle. For God's sake, get rid of Hornswoggle. Wrestling is conflict resolved physically. Conflict is not kid-friendly, especially when resolved physically.
Make the midcard and tag titles mean something again. Right now, nobody cares because the midcard and tag division have been treated like they're nothing for years. It's been all about the upper card, and throwing together to upper carders to crush established tag teams in an effort to build the conflict by seeing how they can coexist is lazy booking. The heel should just wait for the hot tag moment, and then just walk away.
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Sajoa Moe
Patti Mayonnaise
Did you get that thing I sent ya?
A man without gimmick.
Posts: 39,683
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Post by Sajoa Moe on Aug 12, 2009 10:14:31 GMT -5
It isn't the stars/vets, it's what some of the stars/vets are booked to do. On Smackdown it's a perfect mix of old and new. On Raw it's Cena, Triple H, Batsita, Orton, and then you're all dandy until you run in to one of them. I won't say WWE as a whole can't make new stars at all though. Right now CM Punk is on a massive surge up in the eyes of the fans as a legitimate main eventer. Because he's on the brand without veterans trying to steal his thunder. I still feel good that I never got into a WWE Sucks/TNA Rules mentality, because if you look carefully at TNA, they're doing alot of the same things WWE is. TNA just attracts less attention. It's true that TNA's main event is clogged with older stars, but the difference betwen them and Raw is that they're trying to find something for everyone on the roster. They've formed a new stable in The World Elite, consisting mostly of new stars, and teamed them with the Mafia to form one great big superstable. There's always a feud surrounding the tag titles, and plenty of tag teams to go around. Most of the midcard usually has something to do, with Abyss fending off Dr. Stevie for the last couple of months and now the MCMGs joining in the fight against the World Elite. And the Knockouts always get their share of ring time and, more importantly, mic time. When's the last time you saw a Diva cut a promo? Rather, when's the last time you saw a Diva cut a promo two weeks in a row? The only problem right now is the incredibly shoddy booking of the X Division, but hopefully that's on the rebound with the title going to Homicide. Even when Homicide hasn't had a match, he's gotten mic time. Finally, what I think is most important is that every match on Impact seems to mean something. Something always seems to be at stake, whether it be a grudge match, a title shot, or just some wrestler trying to make a good impression. Meanwhile on Raw, you have Chavo Guerrero losing on a weekly basis to a midget. It's for this reason that I find myself much more emotionally invested in TNA than WWE right now.
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Post by Avalanche Alvarez on Aug 12, 2009 10:40:35 GMT -5
Because they focus on the wrong f***ing things, invest money into beauty contests instead of actually developing the talent they have properly, and the writing staff is stuck in a temporal loop between 1989 and 1997.
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