Hiroshi Hase
Patti Mayonnaise
The Good Ol' Days
Posts: 30,755
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Post by Hiroshi Hase on Aug 10, 2009 14:13:12 GMT -5
We're a decade from WCW's boom I think it is safe to say there are a lot of fans now that never saw it first hand. It definitely seems that way. I'm looking at his match from Fall Brawl 96 with Chavo and even though he's clearly a heel here, he's getting a face reaction, especially when he hits the Diamond Cutter.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,125
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Post by Mecca on Aug 10, 2009 14:21:11 GMT -5
DDP's finisher was the best built finisher in the business at the time.
He did it great and did it so many different ways it gave his matches an awesome feel an ending sequence could literally come out of nowhere.
DDP was a major star in the boom era of wrestling there is no other way to describe him.
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GregP19
Dennis Stamp
COCK COCK
Posts: 3,839
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Post by GregP19 on Aug 10, 2009 14:21:57 GMT -5
I won't say he's overrated, as I was a big mark for him in 96-97, but those who were pushing for him (and other WCW guys) to go over Austin, Rock, Taker, etc. in 2001 were delusional. Maybe it's the WWF/E loyalist in me that Loved the inVasion talking (which is another thread entirely) There is a middle ground between not going over Austin and losing to Mrs. Undertaker. DDP, unlike Hogan, Steiner, Goldberg, etc. gave up a lot of free money from Time Warner to go be part of the Invasion. To then deny a guy who was still very over a push because of the company he used to work for was the height of pettiness. Yeah, I'll agree there is middle ground, but I do hear some people who claim that he would have led the WWE to new heights...I say negative on that, but I guess we'll never know...
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,125
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Post by Mecca on Aug 10, 2009 14:23:32 GMT -5
There is a middle ground between not going over Austin and losing to Mrs. Undertaker. DDP, unlike Hogan, Steiner, Goldberg, etc. gave up a lot of free money from Time Warner to go be part of the Invasion. To then deny a guy who was still very over a push because of the company he used to work for was the height of pettiness. Yeah, I'll agree there is middle ground, but I do hear some people who claim that he would have led the WWE to new heights...I say negative on that, but I guess we'll never know... I think he could have been a majorly over upper midcard player...this guy was a key piece for WCW in their big run. The problem was he needed to be a face and do his character that made him what he was in WCW, and they would have had to treat his finisher as the greatest thing going and they didn't seem to want to do that.
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Post by tap on Aug 10, 2009 15:27:27 GMT -5
I've always been annoyed at how DDP was treated. Not like he should have won the belt the first month in, but the way the stalker angle came about... first of all, an angle like that for DDP makes NO sense. BUT, they could have saved it by having DDP say something like "now that I have your attention, deadman," and really built DDP up as a threat to Taker and build him as a key figure in the InVasion. But instead, he becomes some creepy perv and jobs to Sara Calloway.
After all the hard work the guy put in, at his age, and becoming a popular face in WCW not named Flair or Sting in a hot angle like the NWO, it's sad. And from a friend of mine who's met him, that he's a really nice guy too. Bah.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
Posts: 41,529
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Aug 10, 2009 15:33:54 GMT -5
Count me in a someone who was a HUGE fan of Page.
His match with Goldberg is one of my top 5 favorites and I admit that I marked like crazy when Page countered the jackhammer into the diamond cutter. I actually thought he was ending the streak.
He had a white hot feud with Savage and some fantastic matches with Raven and Benoit.
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Post by Paul E. Funk on Aug 10, 2009 16:00:41 GMT -5
WWF crowd reacts to DDP pre-Taker burial. Over?
BTW, my personal opinion on the treatment of DDP isn't so much that he lost the feud (even though it was a huge loss to a mans wife) it's the fact that they changed the DDP character into something that he wasn't in WCW. On top of that, half the crowd knew that he had Kimberly at home, why would he be stalking Sara know what I mean?
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Post by crazydom on Aug 10, 2009 16:42:30 GMT -5
WWF crowd reacts to DDP pre-Taker burial. Over? BTW, my personal opinion on the treatment of DDP isn't so much that he lost the feud (even though it was a huge loss to a mans wife) it's the fact that they changed the DDP character into something that he wasn't in WCW. On top of that, half the crowd knew that he had Kimberly at home, why would he be stalking Sara know what I mean? That was a bigger reaction than anybody in WWE could ever dream of getting. The crowd went nuts when he pulled off the hood. Shame what could have been.
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londonfan
Bubba Ho-Tep
I mark for Paul London/Paul London action figures
Posts: 530
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Post by londonfan on Aug 10, 2009 17:08:22 GMT -5
We're a decade from WCW's boom I think it is safe to say there are a lot of fans now that never saw it first hand. I agree, but those fans should probably watch actual footage or research a little before they blurt out uneducated opinions. Please don't assume just because everyone doesn't share your opinion that they didn't actually watch DDP in WCW. I did, and to be quite honest, I'm a little surprised by the verbal BJ's he is getting in this thread. Over more than HHH? More than Cena... L O L It's fine that you are a fan of his. That's great. But some of you guys are laying it on pretty thick on this one.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,125
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Post by Mecca on Aug 10, 2009 17:09:56 GMT -5
Anyone that was a big star in 1998 was more over than anyone is today...
DDP was at 1 point the 2nd most over face on the roster during their big period think about that.
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Post by shamana on Aug 10, 2009 17:25:45 GMT -5
WWF crowd reacts to DDP pre-Taker burial. Over? BTW, my personal opinion on the treatment of DDP isn't so much that he lost the feud (even though it was a huge loss to a mans wife) it's the fact that they changed the DDP character into something that he wasn't in WCW. On top of that, half the crowd knew that he had Kimberly at home, why would he be stalking Sara know what I mean? Wow, I think I saw that on TV. This was one of the best moments of the entire invasion angle, maybe almost equal to Heyman's insane speech to McMahon (you know, about Hogan's dream, Bret's sweat, HBK's smile... that one?). If that feud was handled differently, DDP could be as crazy over as anyone in the business. I am still amazed when I see clips with some of his in-ring work. He was good overall, but the way he could whip up a finisher from any situation is amazing. Orton has done some pretty nifty counters with it, but he's not even close to the master.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Aug 10, 2009 17:27:30 GMT -5
[quo that's why it bothers me when guys like flair talk about how DDP's matches were bad because they were choreographed. Not everyone could be an amateur wrestler or be trained by Verne Gagne. This kind of thing is so confusing to me. DDP got a great match out of everyone and his brother (including Goldberg, which is amazing at the time because of the way he'd been booked) BECAUSE of his highly choreographed matches. I mean, DDP was also pretty good on top of that, but planning matches out move by move totally works, so why on earth doesn't everybody do it? The thing is, the motivational speaker gimmick was AWESOME and Page played it really well. If he had come in that way and been the Invasion's Motivational Speaker (and been pushed) then it would have worked. It's just, when he was revealed as the stalker, people went NUTS. Terrible missed opportunity.
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Post by Bubble Lead on Aug 10, 2009 17:36:15 GMT -5
I agree, but those fans should probably watch actual footage or research a little before they blurt out uneducated opinions. Please don't assume just because everyone doesn't share your opinion that they didn't actually watch DDP in WCW. I did, and to be quite honest, I'm a little surprised by the verbal BJ's he is getting in this thread. Over more than HHH? More than Cena... L O L It's fine that you are a fan of his. That's great. But some of you guys are laying it on pretty thick on this one. I do not recall directing that line at you. You think he is overrated and didnt like his matches, fine. Its the people who say things like DDP only got pushed because he was Bischoffs friend, which just come across as ignorant. DDP got pushed because he was mega over with the crowd. It took him years of hard work before he got his first WCW Title. It isn't like he just showed up and was instantly in the main event. As for being more over than Cena or HHH? *shrug* He was definitely on par with them at one time, thats for sure. He was the 2nd most over face in WCW which was drawing equal or better ratings to what RAW draws now. So why is saying DDP was as over or more over in WCW than HHH or Cena are in WWE now such a ludicrous statement?
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Post by Jared Jammer on Aug 10, 2009 17:40:42 GMT -5
My personal opinion is that he was the sacrificial lamb for Vince and the WWE. He was by far the biggest WCW star that arrived during the InVasion storyline, and the WWE had the Undertaker and company destroy him to show how superior "his" stars were to "their" stars.
Once DDP was done being buried, he still had enough name and entertainment value left to be a midcard act. He could've been a main eventer in the WWE, but Vince didn't really need him to be one. They had plenty of big time stars at the time, good young talent to turn into future stars, and a huge crop of "free agents" that could be signed once their Time Warner contracts were up.
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TheDieselTrain
Fry's dog Seymour
Chicks Dig Hootie.
Is Stone Cold gonna have to smack a bitch?? WHAT!!!?????
Posts: 23,724
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Post by TheDieselTrain on Aug 10, 2009 17:46:45 GMT -5
... but his Personnal Coach gimmick was awesome!! You f'n rule!!!!!!!!! I never thought i'd see this clip again since my VCR ate my tape when this first aired. I forgot how loud the pop for that ass was. I'm not condoning Sarah beating DDP but the part that gets overlooked is that Undertaker was ringside and was attacking Page throughout the match so its not like Sarah beat him clean. But yeah DDP deserved better after the reaction he got after getting he unmasked himself.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,125
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Post by Mecca on Aug 10, 2009 18:02:54 GMT -5
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spec
Hank Scorpio
Bum Wiping Aficionado
Posts: 5,676
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Post by spec on Aug 10, 2009 20:31:35 GMT -5
WWE dropped the ball with DDP plain and simple. He was awesome in WCW.
At least he got a good Wrestlemania match and victory:
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Post by superdupersonic on Aug 11, 2009 2:20:39 GMT -5
There's a good deal of convenient amnesia dealing with WCW between 1997-99. And with good reason. Whenever I watch shit from this time period, there is so much that I realized I had completely forgotten about because of what a mess it all was.
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Post by Cry Me a Wiggle on Aug 11, 2009 3:12:00 GMT -5
DDP is probably what sets me off the most about the way the WWF booked the Invasion.
Here you have a tremendous talent, a legitimate WCW main eventer, who's willing to sacrifice sitting at home making oodles of cash to do nothing*, to actually participate in the dream storyline of the WWF vs. WCW. Besides Booker (who was heavyweight champion), he's the ONLY WCW headliner who agreed to this.
And for that he got turned into a pervert creep. Ugh.
I do like the motivational speaker gimmick though. It did play more into DDP's strengths, what with the whole "Positively Page" angle, and if it was so damn giddy that it became infectious.
*Besides his incredibly smoking hot wife.
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Post by The Karaoke King on Aug 11, 2009 3:22:30 GMT -5
Had a weird dream that DDP became ECW Champ last night. Anyway, I smurfing loved DDP. He was one of the few WCW main eventers who didn't bore the crap out of me (I'm looking at you Hogan, Savage, Sting, nash etc) and was just a genuinely likeable, cool guy with massive charisma. Also, I've never seen a bad DDP match. Yes, he may have choreographed his matches A LOT, but the average mark doesn't care or even know because he's still entertaining to watch and the fact that he took the time to plan out his matches shows what a hard worker he was. And that's not a bad thing, that's a good thing!
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