|
Post by Loki on Oct 1, 2005 11:13:49 GMT -5
Ultimate Warrior's splash. Even as a young Warrior fan, I wondered why it was so devastating... if you're not Andre the Giant (or a 350+ pounder) a splash is a decent transition move, not a freaking finisher. But, hey, it's the Waaaaryaaahhhh *grunts*
Perfectplex. I know I'm gonna get flamed for this, but IMO a fisherman suplex is hardly a finisher. OK, Curt Hennig was PERFECT, but c'mon.
Shawn Michael's side suplex. How comes a transitional move can now knock somebody out? Sweet Chin Music, as overused as it is, still makes a good finisher. With or without warming up the band.
Carlito. Whatever move he use as finisher.
DDT in general. Once dreaded thanks to the Snake, it became routine, then disappeared and now it's back. Are we willing to give ol' DDT another chance as finisher?
|
|
|
Post by T.F.U. on Oct 1, 2005 11:23:04 GMT -5
How has nobody mentioned the king of all bad finishers....The People's Elbow!
Lets not forgot the mandible/socko claw... "Why wouldn't I just bite your fingers?" Indeed!
The FU.... A death valley driver is still a pretty cool finisher....sadly, this isn't a death valley driver
The Stink Face.... I hate the move anyway, but as a finish, ten times worse!
The Worm... see above.
I'm sure there are more
|
|
|
Post by invaderdave on Oct 1, 2005 11:54:11 GMT -5
So I'll just assume you have no knowledge of nerve damage and the like then?
|
|
|
Post by phentari on Oct 1, 2005 11:55:39 GMT -5
Broadening it out, ANY move that involves flipping over in midair before landing on the opponent. Yes, the Swanton Bomb and the Shooting Star Press look very pretty. Yes, I'm a Jericho mark, and I enjoy the Lionsault on the very rare occasion when it's allowed to work.
But, folks, say it with me: flipping over in midair doesn't make it hurt more when you land on the guy.
|
|
Phoenix
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
He's back and better than ever!
Fear The Desecrator
Posts: 18,958
|
Post by Phoenix on Oct 1, 2005 11:59:53 GMT -5
Broadening it out, ANY move that involves flipping over in midair before landing on the opponent. Yes, the Swanton Bomb and the Shooting Star Press look very pretty. Yes, I'm a Jericho mark, and I enjoy the Lionsault on the very rare occasion when it's allowed to work. But, folks, say it with me: flipping over in midair doesn't make it hurt more when you land on the guy. never been involved with any of our flipping adds momentum threads then huh. I do think that say a 450 would make the weight of someone thats 200 make it feel like someone near 275 just from the extra momentum gained from the flips
|
|
Triple B
ALF
This is the time on Sprockets when we DANCE!
Posts: 1,005
|
Post by Triple B on Oct 1, 2005 12:00:30 GMT -5
Foley has said that about his mandible claw for years. His explanation is that because he is putting pressure on your nerve, you are paralized and can't bite down. At least that's how he explains it.
And I don't think the People's Elbow really was a credible finisher, was it? I mean... I remember alot more people kicking out of it then the Rock Bottom. Or has Rock been away and my memory faded with time and alchohol?
|
|
|
Post by phentari on Oct 1, 2005 12:04:04 GMT -5
never been involved with any of our flipping adds momentum threads then huh. I do think that say a 450 would make the weight of someone thats 200 make it feel like someone near 275 just from the extra momentum gained from the flips You'll notice that I didn't mention the 450, and that was because it's about the only one of the "flippy" moves that involves significant extra momentum. The Swanton and the SSP and the Lionsault don't. If anything, I'd say just cannonballing onto the guy would have a lot more impact. Of course, it wouldn't look as cool...which is why the moves exist.
|
|
|
Post by invaderdave on Oct 1, 2005 12:06:39 GMT -5
I dunno...if you jumped off hard enough, wouldn't a lionsault increase your velocity?
I don't know math good.
|
|
|
Post by phentari on Oct 1, 2005 12:10:30 GMT -5
According to an engineer friend of mine, not significantly. I'll freely admit that vector mechanics aren't my strong suit either...but somehow, I think "I invented this move because it looks cool" is a lot closer to the truth than "I invented this move because my analysis of parabolic vectors indicates optimal momentum-enhanced impact."
Well, unless you're Michael Wallstreet, and have Alexandra York's computer in your corner.
|
|
|
Post by invaderdave on Oct 1, 2005 12:14:04 GMT -5
There's a move called Sex on the Beach in the indies. I don't know who uses it, but the way it's performed is, you have your opponent laying near the corner. You run and hop over him, jump on the very bottom rope, sommersault foreward, and land on your opponent senton style. Looks pretty cool, but at that height, I'm sure the damage isn't all that impressive.
Which reminds me, height might be a major factor as well. London get's some great air on the SSP, and Sasake's senton bomb's practically look like he stays in the air forever, so that would probably increase the impact maybe?
|
|
|
Post by phentari on Oct 1, 2005 12:14:16 GMT -5
On a slightly different note: in a tag-team match, submission moves that leave you wide open.
The Sharpshooter's a great move...in a singles match. But in a tag match...c'mon. You KNOW the guy's partner is gonna run in and clock you in the head before you can get the tap.
I actually like the Crippler Crossface a LOT, just because it *is* a submission move that can come from nowhere, and there aren't too many of those.
|
|
|
Post by phentari on Oct 1, 2005 12:16:23 GMT -5
Just so, Dave. I personally like the spinning Ocean Cyclone suplex--it looks cool as hell--but I'm not sure it does a thing that a simple, run of the mill suplex doesn't do.
|
|
|
Post by invaderdave on Oct 1, 2005 12:18:18 GMT -5
And on the topic of submissions, the one's that come from no where are great. But one that takes an intricate set up, like the Sharpshooter, or even the STF (especially with a grapevine) give a feeling of the payoff is going to be sweet.
|
|
|
Post by Nice Guy Cody on Oct 1, 2005 12:18:26 GMT -5
Gotta say it: the 619. Sure, kicking the guy in the face is likely to be effective, but any move that relies on having the opponent just happen to drape himself over the second rope--ONLY the second rope, mind you--just stretches credibility. The fact that every fricking one of Rey's opponents somehow manages to do so at least twice a match doesn't just stretch credibility, it drags it into a back alley and bends it into new and exciting shapes. 99% of wrestling is guys just-so-happeneing to land where theyr'e supposed to, though. If you're gonna throw it at the 619, you gotta bring it up for every time someone just so happens to fall parallel to the post for a splash, or fall in perfect position for a figure four in the middle of the ring. And let's not forget that old chestnut where their legs or arms just so happen to get caught in the ropes at a crucial moment.
|
|
|
Post by scbg on Oct 1, 2005 12:25:07 GMT -5
The Stink Face isn't really a finisher. It's just a setup move for the Banzai Drop.
|
|
|
Post by phentari on Oct 1, 2005 12:28:33 GMT -5
99% of wrestling is guys just-so-happeneing to land where theyr'e supposed to, though. If you're gonna throw it at the 619, you gotta bring it up for every time someone just so happens to fall parallel to the post for a splash, or fall in perfect position for a figure four in the middle of the ring. And let's not forget that old chestnut where their legs or arms just so happen to get caught in the ropes at a crucial moment. Yeah, but I look at it the way I look at, say, the Universal Translator on Star Trek. I know it's there, I know it's contrived, I'm willing to wink at it...but please, don't call attention to it and force me to look at how contrived and hard to believe it really is. The 619 calls attention to the "Oh, look, he just happens to be in the right position" element of wrestling. The Stink Face was a worse offender, IMO, because most wrestlers just couldn't sell staggering back and sitting down against the turnbuckle believably. That's not a slam on their abilities...it's just not a position a wrestler would actually be likely to wind up in.
|
|
|
Post by T.F.U. on Oct 1, 2005 13:30:55 GMT -5
So I'll just assume you have no knowledge of nerve damage and the like then? Sorry Dr Dave, please explain to me exactly how this move would hurt and what would stop the wrestler from biting as soon as the fingers went into their mouth.... don't spare the details
|
|
|
Post by invaderdave on Oct 1, 2005 13:33:47 GMT -5
Y'see, there's this li'l nerve under your tongue. Someone figured out that by increased pressure on that nerve would be enough to paralyze your jaw, rendering you unable to bite anyone's fingers off. Not to mention, it's a pretty painful exerience, speaking from...experience.
|
|
|
Post by T.F.U. on Oct 1, 2005 13:40:22 GMT -5
Well having listened to your knowledge and "experience" of the move and Mick Foley's. I think I'm going to go with his opinion.
Anyway, isn't this basically what looks like a believable finishing move. You can choke somebody out with a front face lock and or knock them out with a punch to face in "real life" but in wrestling, a finish like that is just bollocks
|
|
Scott
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 3,577
|
Post by Scott on Oct 1, 2005 17:25:26 GMT -5
If you want to be picky about the mandible claw, the hypoglossal nerve under the tongue innervates the movements of the tongue and some of the greater vessels of the neck. The trigeminal nerve would innervate the muscles of chewing and wouldn't be affected by jamming fingers under the tongue
|
|