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Post by ♥ Bunnyslinger ♥ on Oct 15, 2009 13:17:10 GMT -5
Who know's if ALL of this story is true, but the push part is. Name someone that's isn't named Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton, John Cena and Batista that has got a steady push on RAW. I can think of 1, Jericho in 08. The decline of the overall product have been enjoying quite the nice push for a while
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H-Fist
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,485
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Post by H-Fist on Oct 15, 2009 13:25:14 GMT -5
Don't blame them.. blame the writers who must rely on the carcass of a dead horse that was cool in the late 90's and fun for a reunion.. but now it's just sad. Doesn't Jeff Hardy's merch still outsell DX's to this day? You call it a carcass, WWE calls it "dry aged."
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Post by KimberlyPagesBoyToy on Oct 15, 2009 13:29:22 GMT -5
So basically Shawn, Hunter, Cena, Orton, and Hornswoggle are like a modern day Klique, only a bit more professional and mature in their ruler ship as compared to 95. They might not all ride together everywhere like the old days, but in the locker room Festus knows he'd better not piss off Horny or Orton may have to go through some bags to make a point.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Oct 15, 2009 13:44:12 GMT -5
Who know's if ALL of this story is true, but the push part is. Name someone that's isn't named Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton, John Cena and Batista that has got a steady push on RAW. I can think of 1, Jericho in 08. And honestly, that probably only happened because John Cena and Randy Orton were injured, and Triple H was on SmackDown.
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Red Lion
Dennis Stamp
Put your mask on!
Posts: 4,002
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Post by Red Lion on Oct 15, 2009 13:47:27 GMT -5
Yeah! All heat stories are faked! The locker room is one big room full of love! Heyyyy, look in the corner, awwwww, Bret and Shawn are hugging. NEWZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ
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Hogasm
Trap-Jaw
Gots that Thrillbilly Style
Posts: 392
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Post by Hogasm on Oct 15, 2009 13:49:44 GMT -5
Yeah, there's a word for this. Rhymes with Shark Date. Bork Rape?
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Post by slimmy28 on Oct 15, 2009 13:53:04 GMT -5
Makes sense to me. D-X and their constant shilling and lame ass attempts at humor would make me mad as well. But ultimately it's the companies fault for constantly allowing it and writing them into the shows as much as they do.
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Post by Robbymac on Oct 15, 2009 13:54:39 GMT -5
Who know's if ALL of this story is true, but the push part is. Name someone that's isn't named Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton, John Cena and Batista that has got a steady push on RAW. I can think of 1, Jericho in 08. Rhodes and Dibiase
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Pancakes
AC Slater
Vintage Coleism
Posts: 234
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Post by Pancakes on Oct 15, 2009 14:02:46 GMT -5
Who know's if ALL of this story is true, but the push part is. Name someone that's isn't named Triple H, Shawn Michaels, Randy Orton, John Cena and Batista that has got a steady push on RAW. I can think of 1, Jericho in 08. Rhodes and Dibiase The Miz
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Post by N E O G E O B O Y S on Oct 15, 2009 14:08:04 GMT -5
Kingston and Swagger had good pushes IMO
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sloride
Unicron
Doesn't Suck Up. Or Does She?
The Greatest Entertainer to have ever Lived
Posts: 3,196
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Post by sloride on Oct 15, 2009 14:11:21 GMT -5
This story would have more weight had both these individuals not done a phenomenal job in putting over two young guys. So, what according to this we have our new Kliq?
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Pancakes
AC Slater
Vintage Coleism
Posts: 234
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Post by Pancakes on Oct 15, 2009 14:12:25 GMT -5
Kingston and Swagger had good pushes IMO also don't forget Hornswoggle. I think they may be setting him up for a title run.
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Oct 15, 2009 14:43:46 GMT -5
For a time I bought into this 'No-one gets pushed on Raw' but I've come to realise that was a moment of weakness, succombing to the negativity that the show gets on here every week.
Rhodes and DiBbiase have had a steady push, and a good rub as a result of the work of the two guys in this story who are apparently holding the young guys down.
Kofi is another won that rarely loses, and I'll only suspect is dropping the title because they soon want to elevate him. Once he gets a rematch with Miz out of the way I wouldn't be surprised to see him in the mix with Orton and Legacy, particularly if he performs well in the Bragging Rights main event.
Swagger is also very obviously now primed for a push with his undefeated streak, beating MVP and getting on the Raw team.
The Miz has changed from joke who talks a lot to serious competitor who talks a lot in the space of a couple of months. If he keeps improving at the rate he is, he will be main eventing in about a year's time.
So that's Rhodes, Dibiase, Kofi, Swagger and Miz all getting nice elevation from where they were since the draft this year. That's 5 young guys getting good exposure - how many more do you need? You can't push everyone. You need some people to lose so the people that are getting pushes actually look credible.
People cite Evan Bourne and MVP as examples of stalled pushes - and that may be so. However MVP losing made Swagger look more legit on Monday. Evan is someone who when beaten, because he has the crowd behind him, can make whoever beats him look more legit. Kofi lost to Miz but got back on track with a win over Evan. As talented as Bourne and MVP are, for the moment it is their job to make the people in the midst of a push look good. If they keep improving, and keep showing the company that they can get the crowd behind them, their time will come.
Raw gets far too much of a bad rep. I'd like them to start some more actual storylines, like Smackdown has done, but in terms of elevating talent, they are doing what they can. You can't elevate everyone, and you can't elevate just anyone. They have to be able to make the company money if they are given the shot, so they need to prove they have that potential. And you can't just do it suddenly, it has to be over time.
Smackdown done well elevating CM Punk and Jeff Hardy in the space of a few months but now their main event is older than Raw's - Batists vs Punk vs Taker vs Rey isn't exactly youth. But that's fine, because those guys are going to make more money on PPV than if they suddenly shoved Ziggler, Knox and R-Truth into world title contention just to please the internet that wants to push the young guys.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Oct 15, 2009 14:48:36 GMT -5
People cite Evan Bourne and MVP as examples of stalled pushes - and that may be so. However MVP losing made Swagger look more legit on Monday. Evan is someone who when beaten, because he has the crowd behind him, can make whoever beats him look more legit. Kofi lost to Miz but got back on track with a win over Evan. As talented as Bourne and MVP are, for the moment it is their job to make the people in the midst of a push look good. If they keep improving, and keep showing the company that they can get the crowd behind them, their time will come. The thing here is that MVP had the crowd behind him 100% before they suddenly decided to shove him back down the midcard. With as good as he's been since 2007 and how over he's gotten over that period of time, his push should have never been killed.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Oct 15, 2009 14:51:31 GMT -5
The problem with the Rhodes and DiBiase push idea is that, for one, they've only had ONE victory over DX. That's not a push, that's more of a fluke if anything. Anybody can win once, as we've seen with plenty of guys. Not only that, but in order for said win to mean something, it has to be presented and put over as something special. Sadly though, wins and losses mean next to nothing in WWE because more often than not they don't lead to anything and are rarely ever mentioned afterwards. Though granted, they certainly did give Ted DiBiase and Cody Rhodes more of a rub then they have most people. Remember that Triple H/MVP match awhile back? Or how about the ol John Cena/The Miz feud?
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Post by wrestlecrapcrap on Oct 15, 2009 15:02:25 GMT -5
The problem with the Rhodes and DiBiase push idea is that, for one, they've only had ONE victory over DX. That's not a push, that's more of a fluke if anything. Anybody can win once, as we've seen with plenty of guys. Not only that, but in order for said win to mean something, it has to be presented and put over as something special. Sadly though, wins and losses mean next to nothing in WWE because more often than not they don't lead to anything and are rarely ever mentioned afterwards. Though granted, they certainly did give Ted DiBiase and Cody Rhodes more of a rub then they have most people. Remember that Triple H/MVP match awhile back? Or how about the ol John Cena/The Miz feud? It's simply undeniable that Cody and Ted have been pushed. They were Orton's lackeys and nothing more until the handicap victory over HHH, when they sort of went away from helping Orton for a few months and concentrated on their own feud. They got a decisive victory over DX, which was not presented as a fluke but rather it was raising the question as to whether they would end DX for good. Ted has now pinned the WWE champion, while Cody is representing Team Raw at Bragging Rights. The object of that feud has been to make Cody and Ted legit. The object is the Cena/Miz feud was to feed Miz to Cena who had nothing to do that month while giving Miz a try out to see if he could get the heat for it to mean anything if Cena beat him. He did, and now he's getting his push. HHH/MVP was simply to keep HHH looking strong. It was not intended to 'make' MVP in the sense that Cena made Swagger look good. Maybe MVP was over in his own right but I guess they decided that it was between Kofi and MVP for the spot and they went Kofi's way. I'd think certainly that MVP was next in line if Kofi ever has time off for whatever reason.
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MrBRulzOK
Wade Wilson
Mr No-Pants Heathen
Something Witty Here.
Posts: 26,719
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Post by MrBRulzOK on Oct 15, 2009 15:13:42 GMT -5
The problem with the Rhodes and DiBiase push idea is that, for one, they've only had ONE victory over DX. That's not a push, that's more of a fluke if anything. Anybody can win once, as we've seen with plenty of guys. Not only that, but in order for said win to mean something, it has to be presented and put over as something special. Sadly though, wins and losses mean next to nothing in WWE because more often than not they don't lead to anything and are rarely ever mentioned afterwards. Though granted, they certainly did give Ted DiBiase and Cody Rhodes more of a rub then they have most people. Remember that Triple H/MVP match awhile back? Or how about the ol John Cena/The Miz feud? It's simply undeniable that Cody and Ted have been pushed. They were Orton's lackeys and nothing more until the handicap victory over HHH, when they sort of went away from helping Orton for a few months and concentrated on their own feud. They got a decisive victory over DX, which was not presented as a fluke but rather it was raising the question as to whether they would end DX for good. Ted has now pinned the WWE champion, while Cody is representing Team Raw at Bragging Rights. The object of that feud has been to make Cody and Ted legit. The object is the Cena/Miz feud was to feed Miz to Cena who had nothing to do that month while giving Miz a try out to see if he could get the heat for it to mean anything if Cena beat him. He did, and now he's getting his push. HHH/MVP was simply to keep HHH looking strong. It was not intended to 'make' MVP in the sense that Cena made Swagger look good. Maybe MVP was over in his own right but I guess they decided that it was between Kofi and MVP for the spot and they went Kofi's way. I'd think certainly that MVP was next in line if Kofi ever has time off for whatever reason. Yes, they did get a victory over DX, a submission victory at that. But at the following PPV, not only did they lose, but both Ted and Cody got laid out following the match, the latter so badly that he had to be taken out on a stretcher. Meanwhile the next night, Shawn and Triple H aren't even SELLING the aftermath of the cell match. And speaking of that Legacy/Triple H handicap match, which should have meant something, it was instead treated basically as no big deal with Triple H cutting a promo immediately afterward that kind of damped the effects of their win. Was there any real need for him to cut a promo directly after that match? Why not wait until later on and have him do a similar promo backstage? Cena/Miz granted they did remedy somewhat following the PPV. But again, looking back to the buildup... Miz had done next to nothing to get an advantage over Cena. Why were we to care about a match that you knew Miz had no choice in winning? They even had a perfect opportunity to do something by having him eliminate Cena in a battle royale from behind. Cena would've not been any less over and Miz would have at least gotten somewhat of a victory over him. Instead, he was treated like a joke and easily dumped to the outside and only moments later Triple H dumped Cena out anyway. So really... what would've been the difference between Miz eliminating Cena and then getting dumped himself by Trips? As for MVP/Triple H, yeah Triple H should have won the match, but there was no need for him to win with basically one move and pretty much bury poor MVP. Again, back to the Cena/Miz match on that same night. Miz was made to look pretty competent against him in the match, especially compared to the first encounter. Why couldn't have Triple H had a similar bout with MVP, though perhaps to a lesser extent.
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Post by brettappedout (BLM) on Oct 15, 2009 15:18:49 GMT -5
Well with the Legacy push and yes I believe it's a steady push, they're Orton's friends, the report is talking about people who they don't like, thus lose or don't get a full push.
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Post by Piccolo on Oct 15, 2009 15:24:16 GMT -5
Yeah? I thought Shawn was selling it pretty hard... in the match, with his back, and verbally by talking about how he'd gotten his ass kicked all over the place last night. And Trips, from what I hear, was barely in the match, except to save Shawn at the last minute.
Did I misinterpret all that stuff? I don't know, that seemed like selling to me.
As for the report, um. I'm with the people saying that when DX is letting Legacy beat them down in segments and beat them in matches, and the fact that Legacy look like legitimate contenders rather than just Orton's flunkies, makes this report seem pretty weak. Not to mention Jericho's comment about how Shawn came back and asked him who had been made since he left. Maybe that was just him scouting out who he and Hunter should cut down, but Jericho didn't make it sound that way.
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BorneAgain
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,300
Member is Online
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Post by BorneAgain on Oct 15, 2009 15:27:45 GMT -5
This heat happens with so much frequency and in such grave tones, its starting to sound like a medical condition.
*In a medical office, HBK and HHH wait nervously. The doctor enters.*
Dr: Gentlemen, I'm afraid the news isn't good. Based on our tests, it appears that both of you have developed... backstage heat.
*both gasp*
HHH: That can't be, we... we put over Legacy at Breaking Point, allowed them to have a good showing at Hell in a Cell... HBK: We haven't even been in the WWE title scene in months. Dr: I'm afraid that's not had much of an effect. While it hasn't become nuclear from what we can understand on your domination of Raw in the past year has caused the heat to expand and become more solidified. HBK: Oh god. What can we do? Dr: Well, based on my professional opinion, the best possible treatment at the moment is for both of you to lose in singles matches clean... on a PPV. HHH: Out of the question. Both of us need to start gearing up for Wrestlemania soon. Dr: Mr Helmsley, this is a serious issue which needs to be addressed. If not treated now, within six months both of you can expect cryptic, resentful comments on Twitter by the Raw roster, and at least one bitter shoot interview and/or TNA appearance by a released talent by next spring. Is that what you want?
*both Triple H and Shawn sigh*
Dr.: Look, both consider yourselves lucky. I have one patient who's been dealing with considerable heat problems for the last few years.
*Cut to CM Punk in an MRI*
Punk: So you think this will be my last time in here? Nurse: We can only hope so, Mr. Punk. We can only hope so.
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