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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Sept 25, 2009 18:41:37 GMT -5
Why not try and let the fans cheer and boo who they want instead of forcing tired heel/face roles on people and risk losing them? If they fans want to cheer someone, they are going to do it. It's worked fine for companies in the past and hurt others that didn't listen.
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erisi236
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Post by erisi236 on Sept 25, 2009 18:50:48 GMT -5
Why not try and let the fans cheer and boo who they want instead of forcing tired heel/face roles on people and risk losing them? If they fans want to cheer someone, they are going to do it. It's worked fine for companies in the past and hurt others that didn't listen. This is pretty much what happened to Beer Money, two "heels" who were so loved by the fans they eventually started coming out of the "face" ramp.
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AriadosMan
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Post by AriadosMan on Sept 25, 2009 18:54:19 GMT -5
Why not try and let the fans cheer and boo who they want instead of forcing tired heel/face roles on people and risk losing them? If they fans want to cheer someone, they are going to do it. It's worked fine for companies in the past and hurt others that didn't listen. Correct. Face turn Pope would be good IF he didn't lose the edginess that made people notice him in the 1st place.
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Post by SickFlipPiledriver on Sept 25, 2009 19:04:47 GMT -5
It's all well and good to let the fans decide how to push a wrestler but we're talking about the Impact Zone here. They chanted "This is awesome!!" for a tambourine shot. A tambourine shot.
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Sajoa Moe
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Post by Sajoa Moe on Sept 25, 2009 19:07:01 GMT -5
It's all well and good to let the fans decide how to push a wrestler but we're talking about the Impact Zone here. They chanted "This is awesome!!" for a tambourine shot. A tambourine shot. And how often do you see tambourine shots in wrestling?
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Post by SickFlipPiledriver on Sept 25, 2009 19:10:15 GMT -5
You know what I mean though. They're marks for themselves.
And they beat that chant into the ground. If a tambourine shot is "awesome" what do you chant when something truly awesome happens?
Oh yeah.. "This is awesome!"
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Post by 01010010 01101001 01100011 on Sept 25, 2009 19:16:54 GMT -5
You know what I mean though. They're marks for themselves. And they beat that chant into the ground. If a tambourine shot is "awesome" what do you chant when something truly awesome happens? Oh yeah.. "This is awesome!" Well, "This is quality entertainment" and "That was funny" don't quite have the same flow or ring to them.
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Jimmy
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Post by Jimmy on Sept 25, 2009 20:14:25 GMT -5
It should also be noted that in today's TNA there's very little in the way of clear-cut heel/face stuff. Russo loves shades of gray and it's why you get things like a guy attacking a face but fighting off an enemy heel on a regular basis.
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Post by Andrew is Good on Sept 25, 2009 20:50:03 GMT -5
There's nothing wrong with shades of grey, but you can't properly build a match without a heel and a babyface in the match. And yeah, the fans should decide, but if you're trying to push someone as a heel, and is acting somewhat heelish (which was what Pope was trying to do, and against a strong babyface like Suicide) then you're swimming upstream.
The crowd should help decide, but you should also try to guide them in that direction. Pro wrestling is about the wrestlers controlling the crowd, not the crowd controlling the wrestlers. And if the crowd respects a heel enough, then yeah, start to move forwards with a babyface or heel turn (don't Cena the guy). But you also can't let the crowd dictate everything.
And again, I'm not bashing his character. But it's like with the Machine Guns. If you act cool and funny, you will be cheered. I want to get a poll to see how many people dislike funny or cool people? I guarentee you not many people will say, yes, I dislike funny and cool people.
I would like to see him keep his character and be a babyface at the same time. But, if he remains a heel, then he's going to screw over every babyface he wrestles.
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Post by rawthentic on Sept 25, 2009 22:37:56 GMT -5
People just like Dinero more than Suicide. I've liked Suicide since he started wrestling full time and even i have sided with Dinero in this feud mostly because his character is 10 times better and he cuts cool promos. While Suicide has kind of taken a nosedive since losing the X title to Homicide.
Dinero could not do anything heelish enough in this feud IMO. Wait untill he feuds with Daniels, he'll get booed harcore at the Impact Zone.
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Post by The All-American American on Sept 26, 2009 3:18:58 GMT -5
I wouldn't be surprised to see a double-turn in this feud. Clearly the fans love Pope and find Suicidy cheesy. They've hinted at a backstory between the two. Just reveal more of the backstory, and make it so that Suicidy was in the wrong. Maybe he did harm to one of Pope's family members or friends.
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Post by "Nature Boy" Ric Moranis on Sept 26, 2009 7:34:07 GMT -5
He's a bad heel only in the way that Ric Flair was a "bad heel" in the 1980s, or The Rock was a "bad heel" in the late-1990s. He won't get as big, but we live in different times. Not his fault. He's really, really great.
On promos, "The Pope" D'Angelo Dinero is the closest thing we have in the wrestling business to 1980s Ric Flair, and that puts a smile on my face. Not just promos, but the look, the way he carries himself. He's not as good as Flair in the ring, but he's better than 1970s pre-World Champion Ric Flair, by far.
Couple weeks ago, The Pope referenced Dusty Rhodes' "Hard Times" promo, told Lauren "Pope's gonna lay his hands on you!"...totally Space Mountain, and fit in a couple Spidey/Suicidey references.
Burke freaking "gets it". Could you imagine how much cooler his interviews would come off to the average viewer if he walked in each week with the TNA World Belt? He'd own it. THAT's the guy you build your company around. Like 80s Flair and 90s Rock.
Your Pope's pretty much the best thing going. WWE is INSANE for letting that character slip out of its hands. Let's hope TNA doesnt F it up. Or even if they do, let him go back to WWE and be this character on a grander stage. He could've had great feuds as an entertaining heel against Shawn Michaels & Undertaker, then played great as a face afterwards against Orton (I'm not saying that in a "OMG, Colt Cabana should've been WWE Champ!" sort of way either). This Elijah Burke Pope character is WWE-ready, made, and money.
PS: I liked him back when he was Elijah Burke, referred to himself as the "Silver Tongued Pugilist" and such in WWE, but he has really stepped his game up from even then.
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Post by hbk4ever09 on Sept 26, 2009 8:33:04 GMT -5
His stock has frigging jumped in such a short time, let's just hope they don't blow it. Keep putting him in interesting feuds (after Suicide, Daniels, Red, whomever) till the fans are just dying for you to put the X-belt on him. Don't wait too long though....They've certainly got something here, let's hope they don't mess it up.
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Psychoblue
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Post by Psychoblue on Sept 26, 2009 9:04:31 GMT -5
There is no crowd I hate more than Impact crowds: it's like a room for a smarks who spoil the fun for everyone, cheering for heels and starting the world's most retarded chants. However, Dinero plays to the crowd way too much for a heel. I didn't see the need for that when Suicide was the face.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 26, 2009 12:27:42 GMT -5
You know what I mean though. They're marks for themselves. And they beat that chant into the ground. If a tambourine shot is "awesome" what do you chant when something truly awesome happens? Oh yeah.. "This is awesome!" Well, "This is quality entertainment" and "That was funny" don't quite have the same flow or ring to them. I'm now totally wondering if it'd be possible to ever have a "Hey Mr. Tambourine Man, Play a Song for Me!" chant.
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Post by wwefan78 on Sept 26, 2009 12:39:17 GMT -5
Why complicate things? If the crowd boos you, you're a heel. If the crowd cheers for you, you're a babyface. Isn't this the way it's SUPPOSE to work?
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Sept 26, 2009 13:05:27 GMT -5
Why complicate things? If the crowd boos you, you're a heel. If the crowd cheers for you, you're a babyface. Isn't this the way it's SUPPOSE to work? Listening to the fans? Preposterous. Actually, both WWE and TNA allegedly follow this philisophy. TNA's "Cross-The-Line" mentality plays into that and just recently in some WWE Magazine, Vince stated that we're living in an age where fans decide who's good and who's bad and that there are shades of gray. But it doesn't always play out. I mean this kind of reminds me of Orton in WWE a few months ago, who was honestly getting red-hot as a heel and instead of letting it climax or turning him face, they kind of altered him and he simply dwindled. I love The Pope. This is Not what I want to see happen to the Pope. I think as others have pointed out, it all depends on who he's feuding with.
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Post by hajimenoippo on Sept 26, 2009 16:25:52 GMT -5
he gets cheered based on how awesome he is. It's harder to get heel reactions in TNA, especially if you're in the X-division.
Plus TNA hasn't really booked him as a heel beyond teaming with Samoa Joe, he's not really been booked to do anything heelish.
I still think he should take Lethal Consequences on as Underlings
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Sajoa Moe
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Post by Sajoa Moe on Sept 26, 2009 16:28:34 GMT -5
I still think he should take Lethal Consequences on as Underlings IS IT 'CUZ WE'RE BLACK?!
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Post by hajimenoippo on Sept 26, 2009 16:36:26 GMT -5
I'd have Dr. Nash be the Spiritual Adviser
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