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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2009 16:44:49 GMT -5
They can't have the fans decide alignements because while someone gets cheered as a Babyface in one town they can then get booed out of the building as a Babyface in the next town
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Post by gamblore on Sept 26, 2009 21:40:27 GMT -5
They can't have the fans decide alignements because while someone gets cheered as a Babyface in one town they can then get booed out of the building as a Babyface in the next town Worked for Bret Hart. Remember a while ago when Tomko was a heel, but he started to distance himself from Angle and started to get over with the fans by saying that "Tomko was for Tomko"? Remember when TNA switched him from tweener back to heel by having him rejoin Angle, which killed off his momentum, and everyone one this forum was cursing TNA for their stupidity? Now we're getting people on this board who are saying that TNA can't cater to the fans and must make Pope a more pure heel. I swear, Internet fans confuse me sometimes.
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Yami Daimao
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Post by Yami Daimao on Sept 26, 2009 21:40:56 GMT -5
Why complicate things? If the crowd boos you, you're a heel. If the crowd cheers for you, you're a babyface. Isn't this the way it's SUPPOSE to work? Listening to the fans? Preposterous. Actually, both WWE and TNA allegedly follow this philisophy. TNA's "Cross-The-Line" mentality plays into that and just recently in some WWE Magazine, Vince stated that we're living in an age where fans decide who's good and who's bad and that there are shades of gray. Haha yeah because earlier this year Randy Orton, a heel, was on a f***ing roll and was being cheered for most of his actions. They pulled the plug on that and now Orton is a poseless chickens***. Cody Rhodes witnesses his father being double crossed by the evil Orton. As Cody starts flipping out and screaming, there's a huge "Cody" chant, only for it to be dubbed over with unneeded "Cena" chants. My guess is Dinero plays his character too well, that he's being cheered for it instead of being booed like the heel that he is.
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Post by mysterydriver on Sept 26, 2009 23:53:40 GMT -5
They can't have the fans decide alignements because while someone gets cheered as a Babyface in one town they can then get booed out of the building as a Babyface in the next town Worked for Bret Hart. Remember a while ago when Tomko was a heel, but he started to distance himself from Angle and started to get over with the fans by saying that "Tomko was for Tomko"? Remember when TNA switched him from tweener back to heel by having him rejoin Angle, which killed off his momentum, and everyone one this forum was cursing TNA for their stupidity? Now we're getting people on this board who are saying that TNA can't cater to the fans and must make Pope a more pure heel. I swear, Internet fans confuse me sometimes. Different situations. Tomko was Tomko. Pope is Pope. Tomko was in a main event program with a possibility of being the tweener between Face Christian and Heel Angle. Moving him Heel instantly took away the fun because he became a Lackey again. The equivalent to the "Tough Henchman" in the James Bond movies. Sure, his name was known and used in matches (Christian's Team vs. Tomko's Team in Lethal Lockdown) but you knew in the long run he wasn't beating the "hero." Meanwhile, Pope is in a mid-card introduction feud with the possibility of moving on to any other person after the feud ender (Whatever it may be). D'Angelo Dinero could very easily move to a feud with some good guy like Lethal for worshiping a "false" idol with his Macho imitation. In the meantime, he could also go face-to-face with the Angry, Drink enjoying Rhino. Playing off his "Impact Congregation" while irritating the "War Machine" Two silly feud ideas off the top of my head, but I'm just trying to give examples to help my point.
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Post by gamblore on Sept 27, 2009 0:12:16 GMT -5
Worked for Bret Hart. Remember a while ago when Tomko was a heel, but he started to distance himself from Angle and started to get over with the fans by saying that "Tomko was for Tomko"? Remember when TNA switched him from tweener back to heel by having him rejoin Angle, which killed off his momentum, and everyone one this forum was cursing TNA for their stupidity? Now we're getting people on this board who are saying that TNA can't cater to the fans and must make Pope a more pure heel. I swear, Internet fans confuse me sometimes. Different situations. Tomko was Tomko. Pope is Pope. Tomko was in a main event program with a possibility of being the tweener between Face Christian and Heel Angle. Moving him Heel instantly took away the fun because he became a Lackey again. Of course, as some people in this thread have predicted, TNA could end up taking the fun away from Pope by making him a true heel rather than a tweener, or by making him an actual face and risking the character losing much of its cool factor. I still say there's been no justification to even label Pope as a heel, seeing as he's done nothing heelish yet. I think he was meant to be a tweener from the start. Whatever the plan is, it's working, as Pope is over. His character is still new and fresh, so why not just leave well enough alone rather than forcing a face or heel turn that would risk losing fan support, just to satisfy the section of the fanbase that insists upon clearly defined faces and heels.
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Post by mysterydriver on Sept 27, 2009 0:26:56 GMT -5
Different situations. Tomko was Tomko. Pope is Pope. Tomko was in a main event program with a possibility of being the tweener between Face Christian and Heel Angle. Moving him Heel instantly took away the fun because he became a Lackey again. Of course, as some people in this thread have predicted, TNA could end up taking the fun away from Pope by making him a true heel rather than a tweener, or by making him an actual face and risking the character losing much of its cool factor. I still say there's been no justification to even label Pope as a heel, seeing as he's done nothing heelish yet. I think he was meant to be a tweener from the start. Whatever the plan is, it's working, as Pope is over. His character is still new and fresh, so why not just leave well enough alone rather than forcing a face or heel turn that would risk losing fan support, just to satisfy the section of the fanbase that insists upon clearly defined faces and heels. I'm wondering if I misread your original statement (Possible...I'm tired). I was just trying to show how Tomko and Pope were different from each other. I like Tweener Pope with his advances towards Blonde Announcer #4 combined with his crowd pleasing actions (Mister! Tambourine! Man!). However, I personally feel he needs to darken or lighten his shades of grey when going against a defined face or heel. It just makes it easier. Facing Lethal? Pull the tights once or twice. Facing Rhino? Play up to the crowd before a move. I have no clue if I'm making sense. Plus, why am I stuck on Lethal and Rhino for examples? Probably because I need to go to bed.
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AriadosMan
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Post by AriadosMan on Sept 27, 2009 0:34:02 GMT -5
I'd cheer Pope in a match vs Rhino.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Sept 27, 2009 0:44:31 GMT -5
Why not try and let the fans cheer and boo who they want instead of forcing tired heel/face roles on people and risk losing them? If they fans want to cheer someone, they are going to do it. It's worked fine for companies in the past and hurt others that didn't listen. Correct. Face turn Pope would be good IF he didn't lose the edginess that made people notice him in the 1st place. The thing is, having him run down heels instead of faces automatically takes away his edge even if you change nothing else about him, since unlike faces, the heels are going to be jerkasses back to him, and possibly outdo/expose him.
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Post by Pagan Warrior on Sept 27, 2009 4:30:26 GMT -5
I thought he was a face?
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AriadosMan
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Post by AriadosMan on Sept 27, 2009 11:04:32 GMT -5
I thought he was a face? No. He's officially heel. If the fans like him enough to justify a tweener/face run, so be it. Trying to book against what they want is disastrous.
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Post by hajimenoippo on Sept 27, 2009 14:14:07 GMT -5
Hey Once he puts suicide through a table with The Dinero Train...hmmm yeah I'll say money train is his new finisher move. blackness
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Krimzon
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Post by Krimzon on Sept 27, 2009 17:39:53 GMT -5
YOUR Pope isn't a bad anything. You, sir, need to take the DDE straight to Enlightenment!
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AriadosMan
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Post by AriadosMan on Sept 27, 2009 17:45:51 GMT -5
Correct. Face turn Pope would be good IF he didn't lose the edginess that made people notice him in the 1st place. The thing is, having him run down heels instead of faces automatically takes away his edge even if you change nothing else about him, since unlike faces, the heels are going to be jerkasses back to him, and possibly outdo/expose him. To a certain extent, but part of the reason people cheer him is because he's charismatic and entertaining.
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 27, 2009 20:00:59 GMT -5
I think a lot of us are missing the point here.
Fans can certainly cheer whoever they want (though I never saw the fun in cheering a heel at a live event, even if you really like the guy as a performer), but Dinero's problem is that he isn't acting like a heel when left to his own devices.
If you're booked like a heel, don't play to the crowd's cheers, don't try to get them to pop for you. If the crowd wants to cheer you, anyway, that's their choice, but while Dinero's put on some damn good matches and has a good look/character/etc. going for him, he isn't playing his role very well as a heel.
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Post by manstis1804 on Sept 27, 2009 20:31:36 GMT -5
I think it's a lot like RVD when he debuted in the InVasion. He was a heel by association and opposition but never really did anything heelish and happened to have an incredibly entertaining style and charisma, so the fans cheered him for being awesome. That's exactly what's happening with the Pope.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 28, 2009 13:54:25 GMT -5
Turn him by having him come out of the face tunnel!
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Post by Next Level was WRONG on Sept 28, 2009 14:46:29 GMT -5
Heels and Faces? In my TNA?
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