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Post by wasimperviz on Oct 11, 2009 20:23:59 GMT -5
Again though, that's subjective, I would say Austin to both of those things too, but a Flair fan would likely say Flair as an answer. I mean, Vince has a vested interest in saying that too, and while I believe he means it, Austin saved the WWF and made Vince a shedload of money over a few years, Flair didn't. So again, subjective. Flair had some great moments in wrestling and is one of the best I take nothing away from him but when you put him to a Austin he is no where near. I wonder who voted him above Austin and please give your reasons.
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Post by tarheelfan on Oct 11, 2009 20:51:42 GMT -5
Steve Austin also had some really good feuds and matches better then Ric Flair and they gained more fan interest. When Ric Flair was washed up Austin was selling out the world. With all due respect I have watched wrestling for thirty years and I can say that Flair had great feuds. Flair may have wrestled the same wrestler in a territory many times but Flair as the NWA champion traveled from territory to territory facing the best wrestlers from each territory. Austin only had to worry about WWE wrestlers and not the territory business. I don't think anyone is arguing that for a few years period in the Attitude Era that Austin was the biggest star in the history of this sport for anyone not named Hogan. But in retrospect IMHO Austin's legacy in a decade from now will not likely stand the test of time as Flairs will. The Attitude Era was a phenomenal gimmick that elevated wrestling to a popularity not seen since the mid 1980s WWE but we are still feeling the negative effects and fallout of the Attitude Era. The bottomline is that Flair in his prime did not have the total media benefits that Austin had.
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Post by BrodietheSlayer on Oct 11, 2009 21:05:55 GMT -5
I think the Anti-Flair people are still Butt Hurt about Flair coming back to wrestle after retiring. To those people I say this.....GET OVER IT.....IT'S WRESTLING!!! People retire and unretire all the time. I mean, Terry Funk....Mick Foley......Flair is HARDLY the first guy to get back into the ring after retiring.
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Peeetah
Hank Scorpio
BANG
Posts: 5,405
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Post by Peeetah on Oct 11, 2009 21:41:40 GMT -5
The fact opinions on two PROFFESIONAL WRESTLERS seems to be causing mental anguish is funny.
Austin.
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Post by Ultimo Chocula on Oct 11, 2009 22:05:57 GMT -5
Do you know what you call something that is popular for a short amount of time? A fad. That's exactly what Steve Austin was. A fad. Sure he had some great matches during that time but he burned out rather quickly and had nothing to back it up.
Did Austin bring in new fans? You bet. But how many of those stuck around? Many of the people who tuned in during the Attitude era were fairweather fans, watching because it was cool and edgy, then when it became old and stale they moved on to the next thing. People might still know who Austin is but he'll be referred to in the same tones as other flash in the pans as Limp Bizkit and Vin Diesel.
And when Austin left who did he put over? Nobody. He just took his swelling beer gut home and called it a day, coming back once every blue moon to give someone a sloppy stunner and cash his check before disappearing again.
Long story short, Flair.
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Post by triplealbert on Oct 11, 2009 22:09:29 GMT -5
Do you know what you call something that is popular for a short amount of time? A fad. That's exactly what Steve Austin was. A fad. Sure he had some great matches during that time but he burned out rather quickly and had nothing to back it up. Did Austin bring in new fans? You bet. But how many of those stuck around? Many of the people who tuned in during the Attitude era were fairweather fans, watching because it was cool and edgy, then when it became old and stale they moved on to the next thing. People might still know who Austin is but he'll be referred to in the same tones as other flash in the pans as Limp Bizkit and Vin Diesel. And when Austin left who did he put over? Nobody. He just took his swelling beer gut home and called it a day, coming back once every blue moon to give someone a sloppy stunner and cash his check before disappearing again. Long story short, Flair. What do you call somebody who never sold out arenas north of North Carolina? Ric Flair.
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ICBM
King Koopa
Didn't know we did status updates here now
Posts: 12,288
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Post by ICBM on Oct 11, 2009 22:12:36 GMT -5
Man, the last post sinched it for me. Flair.
I know Austin drew in alot of fans from 97-03 but Flair is still doing it all over the world 4 decades after he started
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Post by Ultimo Chocula on Oct 11, 2009 22:13:46 GMT -5
Do you know what you call something that is popular for a short amount of time? A fad. That's exactly what Steve Austin was. A fad. Sure he had some great matches during that time but he burned out rather quickly and had nothing to back it up. Did Austin bring in new fans? You bet. But how many of those stuck around? Many of the people who tuned in during the Attitude era were fairweather fans, watching because it was cool and edgy, then when it became old and stale they moved on to the next thing. People might still know who Austin is but he'll be referred to in the same tones as other flash in the pans as Limp Bizkit and Vin Diesel. And when Austin left who did he put over? Nobody. He just took his swelling beer gut home and called it a day, coming back once every blue moon to give someone a sloppy stunner and cash his check before disappearing again. Long story short, Flair. What do you call somebody who never sold out arenas north of North Carolina? Ric Flair. What's your point?
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Post by triplealbert on Oct 11, 2009 22:15:30 GMT -5
What do you call somebody who never sold out arenas north of North Carolina? Ric Flair. What's your point? Your response to the argument that Austin was the biggest draw in the history of the business was to call him a fad. My response in defense of Austin was that, fad or not, he was a draw all over the country and world. Ric Flair can't draw outside of the Confederacy.
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Post by Ultimo Chocula on Oct 11, 2009 22:22:23 GMT -5
Your response to the argument that Austin was the biggest draw in the history of the business was to call him a fad. My response in defense of Austin was that, fad or not, he was a draw all over the country and world. Ric Flair can't draw outside of the Confederacy. Joey Lawrence sold three million albums in 1991. Nowadays he couldn't get a boat show. See where I'm going with this?
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Post by triplealbert on Oct 11, 2009 22:33:07 GMT -5
Your response to the argument that Austin was the biggest draw in the history of the business was to call him a fad. My response in defense of Austin was that, fad or not, he was a draw all over the country and world. Ric Flair can't draw outside of the Confederacy. Joey Lawrence sold three million albums in 1991. Nowadays he couldn't get a boat show. See where I'm going with this? Your comparison is false, though. Austin didn't go away because he stopped being popular. Austin went away because he couldn't go anymore.
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Celgress
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Superior One
Posts: 19,009
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Post by Celgress on Oct 11, 2009 22:37:05 GMT -5
Austin, IMHO.
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Post by tarheelfan on Oct 11, 2009 22:37:08 GMT -5
Your response to the argument that Austin was the biggest draw in the history of the business was to call him a fad. My response in defense of Austin was that, fad or not, he was a draw all over the country and world. Ric Flair can't draw outside of the Confederacy. Are you aware that Flair toured in many territories outside the Confederacy in various NWA promotions? Although Flair was based out of Jim Crockett Promotions as NWA champion he toured the NWA territories nationwide. Just because he was not as popular in the Northeast does not mean that Flair was not a draw. Wrestling was different in the 1970s and 1980s and wrestlers could not go on television and use profanity to try to prove themselves tough like Austin did. Austin pulled in a demographic of young adults that liked his wrestling characters rebelliousness. In the 1970s and 1980s the climate was different in that television producers would not have allowed the profanity or the vulgarity of the Attitude Era. The ironic part is that Stone Cold wrestling character is not as tough as some of the older guys like Bruiser Brody or Terry Funk or Stan Hansen or Harley Race to name a few. The Stone Cold character was a gimmick and I often wonder if the fans say in Japan would have been as receptive to the Stone Cold character like it was to the teenage rebellious fans in the United States. The bottomline is that the Stone Cold character will not age as well as someones like Flairs legacy because Stone Colds character might have been cool and hip at the time of the Attitude Era but as the previous poster alluded to it was just a fad.
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Post by tarheelfan on Oct 11, 2009 22:41:39 GMT -5
I want to point out that I did enjoy watching Austin wrestle. Even more so as Stunning Steve Austin in WCW. But the irony is that his character grew stale much quicker than Hogans good guy ultimate superhero character did. Which is why I always felt that is why WWE turned him heel at the Wrestlemania in Houston.
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Post by Bob Schlapowitz on Oct 11, 2009 22:54:58 GMT -5
Jerry, Is it that hard for you to accept the fact that, God forbid, people might have different opinions than you?
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Post by gamblore on Oct 11, 2009 23:18:45 GMT -5
The Flair fans need to chill. This poll is like asking an American whether John Locke or Thomas Jefferson was more important. Locke may have been the trailblazer, and since Jefferson drew so heavily from Locke you could say that without him there would be no Jefferson, but for twenty-first century Americans Jefferson left a much more tangible and identifiable legacy.
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hollywood
King Koopa
the bullet dodger
The Green Arrow has approved this post.
Posts: 11,122
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Post by hollywood on Oct 11, 2009 23:45:49 GMT -5
Austin. Mostly because at this point I just want to spite Flair fans. This seems to be a running trend on several wrestling sites these days. It's why I've all but disregarded any conversation about Flair on the internet these days. Well then, considered yourself spited!
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Post by JerryvonKramer on Oct 12, 2009 3:34:09 GMT -5
Jerry, Is it that hard for you to accept the fact that, God forbid, people might have different opinions than you? On this particular topic, absolutely! If Flair/ Hogan was like comparing Dylan and Elvis, this is more like comparing Dylan to Kurt Cobain. It should be a total no brainer.
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BxB
Unicron
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Posts: 2,849
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Post by BxB on Oct 12, 2009 4:10:32 GMT -5
Austin made more money in a short time than Flair ever did in 20 years. I don't get how a short career takes away from your impact. Rock was in the business for what, 10 years? He made more impact than most of the wrestling legends can dream of. To me it's about quality, not the quantity. Ric Flair is a great wrestler, and he's had great matches. But Austin made millions and millions of people glued to their TV sets. He was one of the reasons wrestling was considered "cool" in many schools and colleges. Flair didn't have that impact.
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Post by gamblore on Oct 12, 2009 5:00:11 GMT -5
Jerry, Is it that hard for you to accept the fact that, God forbid, people might have different opinions than you? On this particular topic, absolutely! If Flair/ Hogan was like comparing Dylan and Elvis, this is more like comparing Dylan to Kurt Cobain. It should be a total no brainer. "Yeah, well, you know that's just, like, your opinion, man."
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